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  1. #1
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    bounty hunter abuse
    cheating should not be allowed

    Yes or No answer without spin can anyone guarantee that bounty hunter software programs are legal and cannot be abused.

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Your first sentence answered your question. "Cheating should not be allowed." No one not playing cookie stuffing, trademark abuse in the SERPs or riding a 180Solutions theftware train should have to contact the ACLU attornies.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  3. #3
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I'm a bit nervous to ask, but... What's "bounty hunter" software? Is it some kind of parasiteware?
    Scuse me if that's come up in this forum before, but since I don't promote DishPronto I don't usually look in here.

    No one not playing cookie stuffing, trademark abuse in the SERPs or riding a 180Solutions theftware train should have to contact the ACLU attornies.
    But if certain AGs keep stretchin' the law in the same way the crooks do, the legit people had darned well better put that number on the speed dial!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  4. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    I've never heard of software by that name or function before.

  5. #5
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Me either - and I've been paid bounties from Pronto for identifying cheaters. CIA believes they do it by accident... CIA hasn't seen the sites because I can;t post them here - they use parasites (like Zango) and they pop on the merchants check out page, and their site is designed with either meta-refreshes or double encoded javascript routine to force the referral cookie to be overwritten (even though the shopper has already been acquired, pre-sold and handed off for purchase). These strategies are not accidental. CIA claimed in an earlier post that 99% of the cheaters are doing it by accident... and I already took the time to explain...
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...7&page=2&pp=25
    (posts 31, 32 and 34).

    I assert we've covered this ground before.

    I suppose, but can't know for sure, that CIA is saying that I am spinning this issue for my own gain or favor. I think CIA doesn't realize, and this I do know because I documented it to Pronto, that the people who got fired weren't using a PPCSE who slid some ad inventory over the fence (FindWhat), the ones I have gotten fired were as described above - direct ads with parasitic apps, cookie stuffing techniques, targeting check out pages and shopping cart urls (not one, but all three of these transgressions simultaneously). Scum deserves to be bleached.

  6. #6
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The same scum victimizing Pronto should be OUTED here as they do the exact same thing to ALL ABW forum merchants. Imagine the total commission stealing impact if they all were whacked from every program!!!
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    direct ads with parasitic apps, cookie stuffing techniques, targeting check out pages and shopping cart urls (not one, but all three of these transgressions simultaneously). Scum deserves to be bleached.
    That's definitely scum. There's no legit justification for hitting the checkouts/shopping carts especially. The customer was obviously already in the process of buying!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  8. #8
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    The customer was obviously already in the process of buying!
    Why they do it. Don't want to waste their ad dollars targeting just the front page. Unfortunately a not all that uncommon situation. I call it poaching the shopping cart.

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Some of the checkout poachers even attack after the final checkout page by popping up incentive email offerings after the cart transfers all the customer info to some cross sell marketer. They hype the merchant it will drive repeat sales as they promise to include the duped merchant's links in some of the e-mails. The cart hosting folks get a split on post sales commissions and some forced signup fee for sliding the buyer to a direct marketing group.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  10. #10
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    The cart hosting folks get a split
    And here I thought the best thing about hosting your own cart would just be so it looks more professional. It's always a bit jarring to go to buy something and end up on "secure.someothersite.com" to put in the CC info, and that's without anything funny happening! I wonder of some of the merchants even realize that other stuff is going on. I can imagine them stopping reading at "drive more sales" and not really paying attention to the hows.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    It is tragic Leader when the hosted cart merchants are OPTED-IN by default to pass their completed shoppers info to some 3rd party incentive post sales marketing outfit. They buy the hype they'll get their return shoppers buying more due to some coupon promo paid for by the 3rd party. The 3rd party meanwhile says thanks for the buyer profiles and I've got 600 other merchants to hawk sales to with that fresh info.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  12. #12
    Internet Cowboy
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    When at all possible, if the cart is not on the merchant's domain, I buy elsewhere.


  13. #13
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    And when you see companies like FindWhat, that own Miva (shopping cart software), FindWhat (ad inventory) and Comet Systems (parasitic app) - you begin to see the bigger picture come together...

  14. #14
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    I still want to know what this mystery software really is, CIA please come back and tell us!

  15. #15
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    Cheating should not be allowed.
    Please don't spin the subject. Is It legal or not, I might want to do it my self.

    P.S. I never wrote 99 percent do it by accident. I wrote people make mistakes. Have you ever made a mistake or you are the perfect web master even you make mistakes, don't turn to the Dark Side.

  16. #16
    Internet Cowboy
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    It sounds to me like someone got booted from a program for using parasites.


  17. #17
    Could You Share Us more bwt that Bounty Hunter mysterious bounty Hunter?

  18. #18
    Newbie G-Man's Avatar
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    I believe you have your answer CIA - From what everyone has posted here, it looks like any "Bounty Hunter" program you're thinking of using is not a "legal" program.

  19. #19
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CIA
    Cheating should not be allowed.
    Please don't spin the subject. Is It legal or not, I might want to do it my self.

    P.S. I never wrote 99 percent do it by accident. I wrote people make mistakes. Have you ever made a mistake or you are the perfect web master even you make mistakes, don't turn to the Dark Side.
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=31

  20. #20
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Did you accidentally sign up with metrics direct and accidentally add some meta-refreshes to your site to stuff cookies and accidentally signup as an affiliate with high ticket merchandise programs and accidentally identify several competing merchants and accidentally target their shopping cart urls and accidentally get caught?

    And do you expect the retort "please don't spin the subject" to put US on the defensive?

    Please give an example of bounty hunter software you claim is in use, may be illegal (or not), may be abusing others (or not)... until then, we are forming an opinion (i can see it collectively reflected here...) that you are confused.

    Don't get defensive. (That's like your "don't spin" junk - lacks substance and accuracy and can't be discussed further without becoming self-fulfilling.)

    break....

    Please reference the software. Please clarify your point. And let's get back to meaningful discussion - that's certainly our goal here, and we still assume it's yours.

    What "bounty hunter software programs" are you referring to?

  21. #21
    Internet Cowboy
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    Hmmmmm


  22. #22
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Waittaminnit...I don't think he means a computer program...

    That post Donuts referenced.

    It sounds like:
    DishPronto has a program [ie, a setup where people are paid for desired results] where narks get paid, for, well...narking. (They seem to be calling the narks "bounty hunters" - same thing.)
    You got turned in.
    You were either up to something bad, or at least, they thought you were.
    Therefore you got your commissions ate and kicked out of the program.

    THE ANSWER:
    1) Yeah that's "legal." It's so legal that even the feds themselves have programs where they pay tattletales.
    2) Yeah it sucks. Narking = Way to make a police state atmosphere! But that has nothing to do with legality.
    2) The only way to be legally immune to that is to be INNOCENT!

    If you are TRULY INNOCENT of wrongdoing concerning their program (including breaking the TOS [civil law]...not just criminal law), then other parts of the Law are in your favor--you could sue.

    But if you are GUILTY you are out of luck.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  23. #23
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Waittaminnit...I don't think he means a computer program...
    Leader,

    I knew the answer too but, I was waiting for someone else to post it.


  24. #24
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    "Yes or No answer without spin can anyone guarantee that bounty hunter software programs are legal and cannot be abused"

    You guys may be right, but he seemed pretty specific...

    And I want to again repeat, as I did where this topic has bubbled up several times in the DishPronto, that DishPronto interviews anyone caught violating their terms of service. They allow some leeway and acknowledge the fact that not all affiliates are well-informed. Specifically, I turned in one cheater that Pronto allowed to stay after talking to the aff - he did not know what Metrics Direct was - he signed up from their promo email ad. In addition, also as stated before, Pronto has sent out numerous emails and newsletter notes in addition to ABW posts explaining their terms of service regarding parasites. Pronto is not running amuck and are not nazi-like - they are taking the time to contact the aff (not always easy) and discuss the situation BEFORE they even suspend the account. Account suspension is their first action they take - they are not immediately seizing any commissions. The process takes too long in my opinion, but in talking to Anthony and the owner of Pronto, they have convinced me that giving the aff the chance to explain and to even correct their course of action still gets everyone to the desired result. The guys losing commissions are the ones SO FREAKING GUILTY that they don't even reply to the Pronto requests (yes plural!) for contact. In my opinion, this sets up a cheater to lie and claim it was accidental - but as I said, Pronto believes the message of "come clean and all is cool" is better than "let's hack cheaters off at the knee". They also take this stance to always allow for affs who have made honest mistakes to be corrected.

    Now, can we all knock off the bounty hunters are bad talk? Trying to keep the commissions I have earned is my right - and something I expect I shouldn't even have to do - but that's the landscape. I agree a bounty hunter is a narc - I am a narc. I normally punch tattletales in the nose and then kick then on the ground. Snitches are creepy and they're usually self-righteous bungholes. But the anonymity that parasitic cheating affs enjoy changes this for me as well - they are NOT willing to stand up and face the music - they are scurrying little rat whores - like cockroaches - and I enjoy seeing them squashed. I'll wear the title of Narc'ing Tattletale proudly as long as they behave as they do - in back alley manuevers, behind privacy fences, where they think they can steal in the dark. Sometimes Narc'ing is the way to go - would you turn in a pedophile?

    CIA - if you have a single story of abuse done to anyone (who was cheating or not), that was caused in any part by a narc'ing bounty hunter, please share it.

  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    - Moved to the DishPronto Forum -
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

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