Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36
  1. #1
    Outsourced Program Manager e-Gazer's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ont, Canada
    Posts
    1,605
    Hi everyone,

    With recent light shed on 180 Solutions' unethical activities, and with them operating under so many different aliases, I'm interested in getting a list together of known offenders.



    Does anyone have one, or know of one they can provide a URL to?

    Thank you!!

  2. #2
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    Liz,

    180 has 2 known aff ID accounts (supposedly purchasepost retired from their application). All the rest are other affiliates advertising through 180. There are a handful of affiliates who consistently advertise with them, but realistically any affiliate who is willing to open an advertising account with them can show up.

  3. #3
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    6,195
    One of those affiliates is a former member of ABW who hasn't posted in about a year. Amazing what some folks will do for a buck.

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    [Reminder]

    Public posting of PIDs or Urls may be a violation of applicable privacy policies.

    [/Reminder]
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  5. #5
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    6,195
    That's why I didn't post the domain or any other particulars.

    I'm assuming the individual I alluded to beat feet from ABW when he decided to turn to the dark side. Probably didn't care to be outed and raked over the coals here.

  6. #6
    Outsourced Program Manager e-Gazer's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ont, Canada
    Posts
    1,605
    If anyone has any information could you please PM me with the Publisher names and/or PIDs then? I want to be sure they are NOT in my program.

    I was sure I had seen a list of PIDs published somewhere in this forum at one time but can't seem to locate it now. Perhaps it was taken down for the very reason Haiko stated above, or maybe I'm just nuts.

    Good possibility of the latter...

  7. #7
    Full Member amanda_mytights's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    London/LA
    Posts
    247
    Hello all.

    I am just starting out as the new Affiliate Manager for MyTights.com.

    We are very concerned about the growing number of publishers operating with unethical means. We want to keep a very good relationship with our publishers.

    Liz, if you received a list of these publishers mentioned above in a PM or if anyone else has a list of publishers to avoid I would really appreciate a copy.

    I just would like to avoid adding companies that conduct business in that fashion from our new program.

    I am glad that there is a place such as this forum to keep an eye out and to look over for help right now.

    I will definitely be returning regularly.

    Thanks.
    Amanda Hayes
    MyTights.com

    Amanda@MyTights.com
    Commission Junction Program

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Easiest way to stir clear of sleezeball affiliate publishers would be to eliminate all those who appear to be "incent" or freebee type sights.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  9. #9
    Full Member amanda_mytights's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    London/LA
    Posts
    247
    Basically what I've done to try to keep an eye on the incentive sites is to place then in a seperate group. I don't want to turn away too many affiliates/publishers to begin with. Do you think this is a good idea, just to monitor these sites?

  10. #10
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    6,195
    Amanda, that depends on what you mean by "monitor."

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,178
    Hi Amanda, welcome to ABW!!

    Do you have 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to monitor them? Didn't think so. They come up with new aliases as fast as the old ones are discovered, so monitoring them becomes a real chore.

    Plus, why risk the negative aspects of partnering with them? Most don't like the in your face tactics, while others will only remember your company's name doing the popping. Best to just drive business by avoiding incentive sites, and giving honest affiliates the support and communication they need and deserve.

    Earn the respect of your affiliates, and you'll do well.

    Andy

  12. #12
    Full Member amanda_mytights's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    London/LA
    Posts
    247
    Andy,

    I appreciate your help. It is such a tricky business trying to keep an eye on dodgy schemes.

    I will keep an eye on things and see how it goes.

    Thanks.
    Amanda

  13. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    heber city, ut
    Posts
    98
    It would be great if somewhere there was a list though of dodgy sites that have had warning's or even banned.

    Sometimes it's hard to tell who are the good guys and bad and they tend to have so many URL'S.

    Also arn't commision junction. linshare and sharesale supposed to weed them out - I guess that does not happpen.

    Just my 2 cents,

    cheers,

    sharon

  14. #14
    Outsourced Program Manager e-Gazer's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ont, Canada
    Posts
    1,605
    Hi Sharon -

    Since I began this thread a few months back, I've learned a few things that I'll share now.

    There have been a few lists of PIDs and publisher names deemed "parasitic" that have been passed around over time but unfortunately the minute they are published all the parasites are out changing their publisher names and PIDs so it's difficult to keep up with them - they just reapply under a new name and PID then you have to start the investigation process all over again and keep on top of it - if you can find out who they are.

    Yes, the networks SHOULD be weeding them out as they are supposed to be the "trusted third party". I suspect they will take closer looks at doing this in the future (it would be to their benefit - there has been such uproar over it - just stick around ABW and you'll see) but it hasn't been done just yet.

    I understand your frustration over this - it's a tough situation for all of us, but until the networks start policing the publishers they allow into their network (and maybe some of the merchants too - though I'm not sure...) there's not much we can do but learn what constitutes a parasite and spend hours upon hours playing P.I. while simultaneously being unable to focus on building tools for our affiliates and growing our programs because there are simply not enough hours in the day to do it all (unless you're lucky enough to have an entire team working for you which some of us are not).

    The key is to stay positive and just keep plugging along. Rugman.com does it's best to keep parasites out of our program and takes action when we find them, to ensure their tactics are not used where Rugman.com is concerned. If you want to win - if you're a merchant and you want to work with the best affiliates in the biz, you'd be wise to just try your best to do the same.

    All the best to you and yours...

  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager PaulS's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    647
    The whole issue of affiliates using 1800 Solutions without actually being 1-800 solutions is driving me nuts. Because they don't (themselves) have software, etc., it seems that they don't feel the need to disclose this in their incentive section.

    A couple of the publishers that have been pointed out to me had nothing in their incentive section giving any indication that they were using this system. And, their site looked legit.

    It's enough to drive you bonkers!

  16. #16
    Outsourced Program Manager e-Gazer's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ont, Canada
    Posts
    1,605
    Actually Paul as true as that is - the sad part is that 180 was even found to be deceiving its OWN clients by lying in their own terms & conditions as to what the software does and does not do.

    It turns out (and not sure if this still rings true - maybe someone else can provide insight on that) that many affiliates who use their software may not even be aware of the effects it has on stealing commissions (victims themselves) - all they know is it works for them and helps them make money - they figure they are simply earning the money in a legit way until informed otherwise.

    I wish I could remember where that thread was... maybe someone can point to it for Paul?

  17. #17
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    @Paul...they may *not* be making that disclosure however it is a clear CJ PSA violation not to do so. I know of 2 cases personally where CJ took actions against an affiliate for not disclosing they were using 180 software (ie the PSA violation was not for *using* 180 software but for not disclosing that they were). They affiliate was allowed to continue in the CJ Network and use 180, but they added that info in their profile.

    BTW got your email and will give you a buzz later today if that works for you.

    @Liz yes some affs have claimed that when caught. One particular one comes to mind who said we (us here at ABW) made her cry and denied all knowledge of how 180 works. She went right back to using 180 a few weeks after the hoopula died down. And uses other 3rd party apps also. Maybe a newbie aff...maybe. However there is the percept of "ignorance is no excuse for violating the law" and if affs use due dilligence in researching their advertising vechiles, they know. Granted there has been an occassional case where the aff was duped and repented but unfortunately that is far and few between.

  18. #18
    Affiliate Manager PaulS's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    647
    Oh, what a tangled web....

  19. #19
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    heber city, ut
    Posts
    98
    Hi Liz:

    Thanks for the input, you hear so many affiliates compalining about the parasites and I hear them and totally understand, but the flip side is as a merchant trying to do the right thing and weed out these guys is getting harder.

    But I have learned alot since being at ABW so that really helps.

    Cheers,

    Sharon

    quote:
    Originally posted by Liz G.:
    Hi Sharon -

    Since I began this thread a few months back, I've learned a few things that I'll share now.

    There have been a few lists of PIDs and publisher names deemed "parasitic" that have been passed around over time but unfortunately the minute they are published all the parasites are out changing their publisher names and PIDs so it's difficult to keep up with them - they just reapply under a new name and PID then you have to start the investigation process all over again and keep on top of it - if you can find out who they are.

    Yes, the networks SHOULD be weeding them out as they are supposed to be the "trusted third party". I suspect they will take closer looks at doing this in the future (it would be to their benefit - there has been such uproar over it - just stick around ABW and you'll see) but it hasn't been done just yet.

    I understand your frustration over this - it's a tough situation for all of us, but until the networks start policing the publishers they allow into their network (and maybe some of the merchants too - though I'm not sure...) there's not much we can do but learn what constitutes a parasite and spend hours upon hours playing P.I. while simultaneously being unable to focus on building tools for our affiliates and growing our programs because there are simply not enough hours in the day to do it all (unless you're lucky enough to have an entire team working for you which some of us are not).

    The key is to stay positive and just keep plugging along. Rugman.com does it's best to keep parasites out of our program and takes action when we find them, to ensure their tactics are not used where Rugman.com is concerned. If you want to win - if you're a merchant and you want to work with the best affiliates in the biz, you'd be wise to just try your best to do the same.

    All the best to you and yours...

  20. #20
    Outsourced Program Manager e-Gazer's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ont, Canada
    Posts
    1,605
    LOL Kellie... I have a feeling I know exactly which Affiliate you speak of.



    The one I'm thinking of was removed from our program early August-ish when I found out about her use of 180 - she denied it of course and turned the tables on me by saying I was not the type of Affiliate Manager she wanted to work with if I was to "accuse" her of doing such horrible things. Of course, she applied to my program under a new PID the following month...

    Will wonders never cease. (She was declined of course)


    In all fairness though - I recall reading a thread (possibly one from Ben Edelman) where the author had pointed out a clause in 180's client terms that CLEARLY says they do not do X, Y or Z, although it has CLEARLY been proven that X, Y and Z is actually being performed by 180 and THAT is why they have had so much heat thrown at them.

    Anyone know which thread I'm referring to? It was an interesting one...

  21. #21
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    469
    Liz, I remember some threads like what you describe. I had some fun back-and-forth (as did Kellie and other ABW participants) with "180help" and other 180 representatives in http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...34&m=713108785 , http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...34&m=287100816 , http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&...34&m=892109614 , and most of all http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...34&m=270101706 . In that latter thread, 180help posts a series of claims, which I then critique. It's relatively easy to follow the discussion here because I quoted 180's claims in bold before proceeding to critique their assertions.

    In particular, I argued that 180 made the following false claims:

    That their software does not read the Windows Registry looking for user information. (I listed 17 specific registry keys referenced in 180's .EXE.)

    That all 180 knows about a user is what keyword caused an advertisement. (I listed otehr information 180 knows, including user's ID, the ID of the partner who installed the 180 software, the product ID, the user's time zone, the user's IP, the user's web browser filename and version, and the user's OS version.)

    That all 180 ads are labeled with 180's name at the top. (I posted videos and screen-shots showing the falsity of this claim.)

    That 180's popups appear in the default setting the user has set for IE. (I ran an analysis of 180's ads and found that 52% included code specifying a full 800x600 popup.)

    That 180 "simply [does] not" "steal commissions from affiliates." (I wrote a whole article showing how this is false and how such "steal[ing]" does in fact occur.)

    That 180 "does not knowingly take affiliate commissions by opening hidden windows." (I showed examples of this occurring.)


    All in all, it was a fun thread. Recommended reading!

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    LOL..... as Haiko and Ms.B try to censor the outrage over the threads so as not to offend the 180Solutions wanks...

    "All,

    I have removed 3 postings in this thread and will remove any others that involve bickering, off topic or irrelevant information to maintain the integrity of the subject matter and respect to it's initiator. ....Haiko

    Ms. B "Mike PLEASE stop these kinds of posts! As I already posted in this thread, if you can't back up such statements with facts it is BEST not to post such things at all!!!! That kind of bullshit statement as FACT without ANY type of backing up of the claim is EXACTLY why I asked Haiko to edit your other post in this thread.

    It is not helpful at all and in fact it is HARMFUL!!! First is that while you may feel that no one is going to come after your ass with a lawsuit, it certainly doesn't mean that Haiko and the board won't get threatened with one. And while you personally may or may not give a flying leap about that, it is not good for this community. Second is that type of crap completely and totally discredits the entire thread by those being sent here to understand the issues (people who don't normally come to ABW and know the members and their posting styles). I can not tell you how MANY times I've had to try and explain away the types of posts you just made to people I'm trying to work with that will yield positive changes. Or how many times I've referred someone to a thread that seemed to be staying on track with good factual information only to have it go astray like this one and have them blow me off because they completely disregard the whole thread based on what they saw with a few posts along the lines of this terrorist stuff. IT IS NOT F'ING HELPFUL!!!!!!!!!!! It's not amusing and it's not funny and it's not witty and it's not anything but harmful in the long run!"

    Do I smell a money motive here seeking to solicite side money from stirring up the honest affiliate vs the darkside ...then politically correcting ABWers to allow those potentially paying the fees to come here. Haiko and Ms.B sure made the most vocal voice bringing about pro-active changes to this industry look like a piker and 180help just yank our chain for a few BS threads.

    Nice to see they were successful at flipping ABW the bird before they exited with millions of our bucks and a bunch of new recruits riding their "BHO for hire" theftware train....priceless!
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  23. #23
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    469
    quote:
    Originally posted by Liz G.:
    There have been a few lists of PIDs and publisher names deemed "parasitic" that have been passed around over time but unfortunately the minute they are published all the parasites are out changing their publisher names and PIDs so it's difficult to keep up with them - they just reapply under a new name and PID then you have to start the investigation process all over again and keep on top of it - if you can find out who they are.
    This is exactly right. For example, I gave CJ a list of 70+ PIDs over the summer. But now the major 180 CJ affiliates are using new PIDs.

    This seems to present a truly tricky challenge for merchants. I've spoken with merchants who are taking a variety of approaches here. Three in particular:

    1) Install 180 on a test PC, visit their own site, and see what affiliate links get invoked. This can be hard -- there's so much obfuscation, redirects, framing, IFRAMEs, etc. But with a good packet sniffer, or Cookies folder inspection, or luck, it can be worakble.

    2) Hire me, Kellie, or some other expert to do #1.

    3) Ignore the problem.

    I've been thinking about making a fresh list of all the PIDs I've recently seen on 180, but honestly that work has fallen by the wayside given other projects (testing other software downloads, looking at other kinds of cookie-stuffing). Perhaps later this fall / winter.

    One final point: For those merchants fortunate enough to be on 180's exclusion list, there's no need to worry about any of this at all, at least not as to 180. (Other parasites remain problematic, of course.) Some merchants may find it sensible to ask 180 to put them on the exclusion list, though I don't yet have a sense of whether 180 is willing to do so.

  24. #24
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    The Swamp
    Posts
    7,503
    Mike,

    Forward any and all documentation/proof you have to support your claims in your above post to afp @ affiliatefairplay.com by Monday November 8, 2004 noon CST.

    If I receive no such documentation/proof to that email address by the stated deadline, I will proceed under the assumption you indeed have no such documentation/proof to substantiate your claims.

  25. #25
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    3,219
    quote:
    Originally posted by AFP aka Ms. B:
    Mike,

    Forward any and all documentation/proof you have to support your claims in your above post to afp @ affiliatefairplay.com by Monday November 8, 2004 noon CST.

    If I receive no such documentation/proof to that email address by the stated deadline, I will proceed under the assumption you indeed have no such documentation/proof to substantiate your claims.


    Kellie,

    I am curious as to what type of testing method you intend to use to prove any documents Mike sends to the above stated address?

    You were unable to prove the LS Titanium award was a trickster, have you developed new technology you are not sharing?

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. GAN - I want a comprehensive Advertiser List
    By isellstuff in forum Google Affiliate Network - GAN
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: February 15th, 2013, 07:06 PM
  2. Replies: 63
    Last Post: April 13th, 2005, 08:54 PM
  3. Update on 180 targeting, targeting list, exclusion list
    By bedelman in forum Suspicious Activity!
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2004, 05:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •