Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    273
    Feb. update v. May update on Google
    The Feb update badly hit Google traffic on my best site, but then it came back after a couple of week.

    The May Google update has hit the same site again badly traffic-wise but no sign of any upturn yet.

    Anyone experienced a feb and a may down turn as above but had a rebound after the May update.

    This site is does not do anything sneaky, the only thing I have done which is a bit odd , is have a site map at the bottom of each page as there are not that many pages, but this is really there to up the conversion rate rather than affect SEO, and happened by acciddent as the site was originally only a few pages then grew,over time, to the 100+ mark.

    Ironically I have only recently put 2 much bigger sites employing over the knowledge acquired over the last few years, including quite a bit from ABW, as I felt very vulernable after Xmas when I realised how much income came form this one site. One site has already paid for its hosting costs within a few weeks, but the other, which went up a couple of weeks later, is taking longer to get crawled.


    Les

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    Lately I think the Google changes have been more affected by your status quo than the content you offer. They're demanding stronger and stronger incoming links. If you can't get links strong enough and at regular intervals, they'll find somebody who does. I believe Google is getting very good at identifying sites that get good organic traffic. They like sites that get natural, non-reciprocated links from articles, press releases and blogs. Google knows where people are browsing and clicking, so you need links in places where people are browsing and clicking.

    To answer your question I did see a decline in traffic in Feb but a slight upturn in May. I like to attribute this to the changes I've made to generate and retain more organic traffic.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  3. #3
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by Snib
    To answer your question I did see a decline in traffic in Feb but a slight upturn in May. I like to attribute this to the changes I've made to generate and retain more organic traffic.

    - Scott
    Thanks

    Odd things that I have noticed tend to fall in line with your comments.

    I had several projects on my long term "need to research more" pile that I started to re-visit after Easter and they should not be reliant on affiliate income to make money, although I will slip in affiliate links where appropriate. So I guess I am lucky that I had already been planning on diversifying.

    Meanwhile after a bit of a wilderness period several IT consultancy clients have suddenly got back in touch in the couple of week or so.

    So what goes around, comes around

    Les

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,350
    They're demanding stronger and stronger incoming links. If you can't get links strong enough and at regular intervals, they'll find somebody who does.

    It makes sense if you have a good content site that people with similar content might want to link to it. It seems to me that linking to merchant sites with common products is a very unnatural thing to do. (Unless of course you are an affiliate) Merchants linking to merchants makes absolutely no sense. In the natural scheme of things most merchants would not have a lot of links, cept for their paid advertising in directories and such. It is totally unnatural for a site to go out day after day trying to increase the sites that link to them. I really think Google has blown it with this linking stuff and is going to have to come up with something a whole lot better for the algo.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Jane
    It is totally unnatural for a site to go out day after day trying to increase the sites that link to them. I really think Google has blown it with this linking stuff and is going to have to come up with something a whole lot better for the algo.
    I don't see how this is unnatural. You don't have to elicit links directly. There are several methods and ideally you want people to want to link to you. Maybe they aren't even linking to you, but to their profile or contribution on your site. Give them something to be proud of and they'll spread the word for you. Look at Livejournal and Blogger's success. They give you something of value and you market it yourself. Bizrate lets merchants boast about their score in real time with a link to Bizrate. Hotscripts has a script scoring box programmers can add to their site to increase their rating. People love to add links as long as you've got something worth linking to.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  6. #6
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    6,195
    Two of my sites were heavily impacted by both the February and May updates. In February traffic on those two sites increased by 100%. In May traffic decreased by 67%. I'm 33% down from my pre-February update traffic levels.

    Google giveth and Google taketh away.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,350
    The type of sites you are talking about snib are internet related. I am talking about business to business sites and small merchants. People are not going to go out and put up mass quantities of links to industrial products or merchants that sell things like shoes. Most merchants don't want to send their traffic off to another store.

    Trying to see how the algo affects everyone, not just affiliates. How it affects affiliates is the least of googles concerns.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    At least with a much narrower niche you won't have as much competition. Could write some industry specific articles and generate an audience that way. Put some real knowledge online and people will read it. I've just started writing articles and it's a wonderful outlet. Gives me an opportunity to sell and help at the same time. I can offer all the knowledge I've acquired over the years and make people grateful that I'm sharing it.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    9,944
    Really! This whole linking to similar sites is nonsense. As if K-Mart would link to Wal-Mart or McDonalds would link to Burger King! Absurd! Nor, would I want to link to another Pagan store. Heck! I don't even want my viewers to KNOW there is another pagan store much less tell them where it is!
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    Really! This whole linking to similar sites is nonsense. As if K-Mart would link to Wal-Mart or McDonalds would link to Burger King! Absurd! Nor, would I want to link to another Pagan store. Heck! I don't even want my viewers to KNOW there is another pagan store much less tell them where it is!
    These big brands don't need links, it's not their business to send traffic away. That's our business. The trick is sending traffic away and have it return for more info. I link to related sites when I know I have something comparable if not better. People enjoy options and it's good to be a resource for options.

    Nobody's telling you to link to your competition though. Ideally you want to get incoming links without creating anymore outgoing links. One thing I'm working on at the moment is offering people vanity URLs. Remember cjb.net? If you can offer somebody a profile, blog, album or wishlist and give them a simple set of URL's to distribute about themselves, you'll have a winner. MySpace just added a little tutorial about how to advertise your MySpace website in your AIM profile, Yahoo Signature, and Hotmail signature. I have to admit MySpace does a wonderful job of facilitating viral marketing. Millions of people are spreading their URL all over the internet for free.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    MySpace just added a little tutorial about how to advertise your MySpace website in your AIM profile, Yahoo Signature, and Hotmail signature.
    Them and every other Tom, Dick and Harriet! Look around at some sites aimed at newbs, and you see the same thing everywhere:

    Advertise your URL in your sig in emails and on message boards.
    Post relevant articles on message boards and mention your URL. Get known as an expert in your topic. (Chances are better that you'll get known as a board spammer, but they never mention *that!*)
    Try handing out flyers etc.
    Put out articles for syndication.
    etc. etc.

    Now they may add "have an RSS feed" to the list.

    The trick is sending traffic away and have it return for more info.
    !!

    Let's not forget the real objective of affiliate marketing. The trick is sending traffic away and having it BUY SOMETHING! If it's returning for more info, that means only one thing: We blew it! The people shouldn't want any more info after they leave. They should want to BUY--and buy NOW!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    !!

    Let's not forget the real objective of affiliate marketing. The trick is sending traffic away and having it BUY SOMETHING! If it's returning for more info, that means only one thing: We blew it! The people shouldn't want any more info after they leave. They should want to BUY--and buy NOW!
    Why not have them buy one thing, come back and buy another. If you give them a guide on what to buy to build something of use, you can get multiple sales through multiple merchants. I think it's much better to get 10 sales from one person than just 1.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    Oh, I understand. What I had been imagining was someone keeping coming back "for more info" and never getting down to business--ie, a typical nonbuying content-moocher.

    I've heard such guides can be quite effective. I've read some merchants talking about doing that, and reporting good results.

    The main difficulty I have there is in knowing enough about a suitably saleable subject to make a "project." I've got pages that explain how to do things (that I've made when I get frustrated at some ignorance or other that I've come across), but those aren't what I'd consider projects. Well, maybe my page on how to get a stuck tape out of a VCR qualifies as a "project..." But *that* doesn't cost anything at all, presuming the person already has a $1 screwdriver handy to get the VCR machine's cover open with.

    The "sell 10 items" type of how-to leaves me with a big mental 404. The only projects I've done outside of a high-school shop class that need anywhere near that amount of stuff are recipes!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    Lots of projects if you want to talk to gearheads who love to build computers and entertainment centers. You could talk about building a kitchen and sell for BestBuy and Rockler. Why not discuss the kitchenware necessary to make an awesome cake or loaf of bread and sell the tools through Target with a 10% coupon. The options are pretty infinite here, but I know what you're saying.. It's hard to know enough about these projects without actually doing them yourself in the first place. I've just started on this and found myself a nice niche to work in. Just gotta look back on your experience and find a way to market what you know.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  15. #15
    Full Member Tech Evangelist's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 16th, 2005
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    374
    There's a lot of good advice in this thread.

    IMO here's the bottom line on search engines. They could care less about who you are, what you do or what you sell. They are not looking for products. They are looking for informational content.

    Every site should have a number of informational content pages with about 250 to 500 words of content. If your affiliate site sells widgets, do a review on green widgets, and another on how to select a red widget, and another on the history of widgets, etc. This needs to be original content and the content needs to be focused on a keyword theme. This is used to attract spiders. It is spider food. Give them what they want and they will reward you.

    Do you ever wonder why Amazon's pages rank so well? It's partially due to the size of the site (large content mass), but more due to the fact that every product page has lots of content. Adding reviews was one of the smartest things they ever did.

    The other major part of the search engine equation is inbound links. Inbound links are a popularity vote for your site. Links from high-ranking industry-related sites are given more weight than random links, and links from large, industry-related authority sites (the leaders and largest sites) are give the most weight. Granted, these types of links are almost impossible for affiliates to obtain.

    Every link to your site counts for something, although there is growing evidence that reciprocal links cancel each other out, and 1000 links from a site count as 1 (with Google). Currently, one of the most popular methods for obtaining inbound links is through free directories. I suspect that G's next move will be to target directories and either refuse to index them or not pay any attention to their links.

    There are several tried and true methods that every site owner should understand if they want to do well with search engines over the long term.

    Stick to the basics and periodically review the guidelines pages from the major search engines to see if you are doing anything that will get your site penalized. You can find links to all of the guidelines pages here:

    Webmaster Guidelines from Major Search Engines

    This is the other dimension to this issue. There are things that you can do to help your site to rank well, and things you need to do to avoid penalties. If you do not focus on both, one cancels out the other.
    There's good, fast and cheap. Pick any two.
    [url=http://www.topranksolutions.com]Phoenix SEO[/url] :: [url=http://www.tech-evangelist.com/category/affiliate-marketing/]Affiliate Marketing Tutorials[/url]

  16. #16
    The Beer Hunter LearnAbout's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 1st, 2005
    Location
    usually 19th hole
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    Let's not forget the real objective of affiliate marketing. The trick is sending traffic away and having it BUY SOMETHING! If it's returning for more info, that means only one thing: We blew it! The people shouldn't want any more info after they leave. They should want to BUY--and buy NOW!
    In my eyes very relevant, but only half the truth. In order to send traffic away you have to get it in, first. To be able to do so you have a number of options, good Google ranking being one. And to get that you have to play the game as G dictates, there is no way around.

    I could not agree more with Scott about the importance of QUALITY incoming links. I've been hawking my content to other websites, in a modified form of course. If they use it I get a link (mind you, not a recip. link!) from a highly relevant content page (since it is my stuff anyways). If I do a link check at G many of my previous recip. link partners don't show any more, but the 'content' links are getting there. The Feb and May updates have not hurt me at all, my content sites actually benefitted.

    From a practical point of view, most webmasters are always looking for new content - me being no exception; same goes for publishers of newsletters (after a while you're just drained...). I approach other sites on wether they want to swap (modified) articles. This give you two benefits: good inbound links as well as fresh content on a regular basis, another thing G seems to like.

    As for valuable content to write, I would have been more than happy to learn how tp pry my daughter's toys out of the VCR before I attempted it . And yes, I did have a screw driver, too. Point is, with this info you would have lead me to your site. If the info is valuable I would begin to trust your site, and potentially buy from it - maybe dump the VCR for a nice DVD recorder. I'd see this a costomer service, something even ppl like us cannot do without I think.

    Just my two cents worth...


    Btw, Scott: if you come to Singapore again pls contact me, I'll take you for some great seafood...

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    Sounds good! We had some Indonesian food and it was fantastic. It was at a place called Riverside I believe near Clark Quay. Had this grubbin BBQ fish along with a nice assortment of seafood and chicken, mmm. I miss it already!!

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  18. #18
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, FL
    Posts
    6,930
    My Mom, as a consumer, finds lots of sites that she loves. She bookmarks them, emails friends about them, writes the url down on a sticky and hands it to someone, tells people on the phone, jots down a url in a letter or birthday card or holiday note.

    She loves the Internet and loves to tell people about gems she finds. She's the kind of customer we all aim for.

    She never posts a backlink to a site - she doesn't have a site.
    If she did, she doesn't know the value of anchor text, anchor text variation (she cut and paste from the site) and may even link using "click here" text.

    The fallacy of the way engines count backlinks is that the backlinks are now modeled, by profressionals like us, to fit the definition of what they say is important and meaningful.

    The vast majority of links are exchanges, back scratches, paid text links and the sort.

    They have defined the rules and there's no way around it. In fact, they devalue the exact kind of link that my Mom would create. If she had a site, it wouldn't be meaningfully ranked, nor would it be cohesively themed. It likely wouldn't validate well or have professional navigation and the latest coding (like an xml sitemap for google).

    They are overlooking the human value of experience... the "been there, seen it, can tell you if it sucks or not" - or maybe just having a hard time coding it. If my Mom (or your Mom) told me she got a great deal on a blue widget at bluewidgets-r-us.com, I'd trust that. If some johnny slickster created a "perfect" backlink, in exchange for a fee, to "vote" for our-blue-widgets-are-best.com, I could care less.

    All search engines are deaf to my Mom and beg the ear of Johnny Slickster.

    Play the game as they dictate it, pay ppc or exist in relative obscurity.

    The Rembrandt's said it a zillion times...
    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby
    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby

    I suppose Google could be looking into her gmail outbounds someday... and they could monitor her via toolbar and see where she goes and where she stays and what sites she buys from and what she bookmarks and wait... they're working on all that... and they'll get bashed by all of us, including me and my Mom, for thinkng they have the right to pry into our private matters. They need to find a "safe" way to monitor us all, then draw conclusions from real activity. That may be impossible to do considering the number of search engines that want to "watch" Mom.., and the track record of the freaking adware folks and parasites...

    So CRAPOLA.... we're back... full circle to ignoring Mom and using backlinks with all their faults as a proxy for actual judgment.

    Ummmmmmmmmm.........

    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby
    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby
    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby...

  19. #19
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, FL
    Posts
    6,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Snib
    Sounds good! We had some Indonesian food and it was fantastic. It was at a place called Riverside I believe near Clark Quay. Had this grubbin BBQ fish along with a nice assortment of seafood and chicken, mmm. I miss it already!!

    - Scott
    And if this text above was linked to a relevant webiste, it also wouldn't count for much... rel=nofollow would block it at many boards, being off-topic would heinously mark down it's value (metatags / content on this page don't match up), inbounds to this page don't match theme and thereby detract / confuse as well.

    Yet this recommendation, is the kind of gem people love to get. And we can all see value in.

    It was greedy (some might say innovative) spamming links that brought the downfall of SE's counting them in the first palce. It seems ironic to me that we are all now forced (left with no other choice) to gather unnatural links (paid, exchanges, interlink to friends sites - most often people who've never even looked at our sites) to get ranked because natural links (like Mom bakes) are now worthless.

    We've thrown out the baby with the bathwater...

    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby
    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby
    That's Just the Way It Is, Baby

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    It was greedy (some might say innovative) spamming links that brought the downfall of SE's counting them in the first palce. It seems ironic to me that we are all now forced (left with no other choice) to gather unnatural links (paid, exchanges, interlink to friends sites - most often people who've never even looked at our sites) to get ranked because natural links (like Mom bakes) are now worthless.
    I have to disagree with you here. It used to be that unnatural links would bring us traffic because the search engines respected them, but that's no longer the case. I believe search engines value link exchanges much less than they did before. I think they're much more interested in the links Mom sends to her friends or posts on her blog. The search engines are trying to identify the sites that have natural organic links.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  21. #21
    The Beer Hunter LearnAbout's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 1st, 2005
    Location
    usually 19th hole
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Play the game as they dictate it, pay ppc or exist in relative obscurity.
    Depressing as it is, this pretty much sums it up. Until Heiko makes enough off this forum to buy a majority stake in Google, Inc. and kicks some we will need to play by their rules.

    I also see the re-valuation of link vs quality link as a good step forward. G no longer "beg(s) the ear of Johnny Slickster" (love that expression!), thankfully.

    Frank

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Nunya, Business
    Posts
    23,684
    As far as links, what i've always been saying:

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...ght=reciprocal

    November 15th, 2002
    "People linking to your site without a reciprocal link, is better than a reciprocal link, which is good also. Anybody can get reciprocal links, it just takes time. You could spend a whole week doing nothing but this and get hundreds. It's much harder getting someone to link to you without benefit to themselves. So it should be worth more."

    The sites in my sector (coupon/deal sites) who are at the top of Google for major terms, don't even have a links page, but they have a lot of incoming links because they have a quality site people naturally link to. And those same sites weather any Google update.

  23. #23
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Opposite the Slough of Despond
    Posts
    5,465
    My current working theory is that ODP-listed sites are outperforming non-ODP listed sites. An ODP listing also help with link growth, as the content is re-used on many other sites, so that's one type of organic growth. (Of course, pure affiliate sites aren't eligible for a listing.. but that's another story).

    The effect is pretty dramatic.. I have a more-or-less pure content site listed in the ODP in the same subject area as a pure sales affiliate site. Both cover similar products, both have the same PageRank, the content site is actually less well optimised on-page than the sales site, but it's the *content* site doing well in the SERPs.

    So.. if the link growth theory is true, and is in line with my observations then it might well be that "PageRank" is much less important in the calculations, and Google may well be putting more weight on link counting instead.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  24. Newsletter Signup

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. New Google Dance: The Farmer Update and Scraper Update
    By ladidah in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: May 22nd, 2012, 09:37 AM
  2. Replies: 160
    Last Post: June 7th, 2010, 10:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •