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  1. #1
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    Question Fight parasites with parasites?
    The parasite issues are playing with my mind. I guess I just hate people who steal. Regardless...I was trying to sleep and I kept thinking -- there must be a way to beat these people at their own game. Would incorporating some of their own practices be possible?

    If parasites thrive by over-riding cookies from an affiliates site when a customer goes from the affiliate site to the merchant site, would it be possible to have a script of some kind that set the initial cookie then used their own parasite on their own site to set another cookie? Like a protection parasite? lol ( I dunno...)


    I know it is probably a totally stupid question but I had to ask.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeann
    The parasite issues are playing with my mind. I guess I just hate people who steal. Regardless...I was trying to sleep and I kept thinking -- there must be a way to beat these people at their own game. Would incorporating some of their own practices be possible?

    If parasites thrive by over-riding cookies from an affiliates site when a customer goes from the affiliate site to the merchant site, would it be possible to have a script of some kind that set the initial cookie then used their own parasite on their own site to set another cookie? Like a protection parasite? lol ( I dunno...)


    I know it is probably a totally stupid question but I had to ask.
    Everything is possible, but remember this:

    If you set up a hidden camera and catch someone on video stealing your valuables, you may use that video as evidence to try to let the proper authority deal with that thief.

    Depending on many factors, that thief may get just a warning, (that thief may sue you*), you may never get your valuables back, it might cost you more to get your valuables back from that thief.

    If after you see the video, you know who the thief is and decide to go to that thief home and steal your valuables back, you may get caught stealing and even if you're just taking only your valuables back, you may get convicted of a felony, you may go to jail, you may get sue, you may lose a lot of money on lawyers, you may get a heart attack, you may even get shoot by the police or even by that same thief and that thief may say it was on self-defense that he kill you because he was protecting his family when he shoot you.

    The best way to deal with a thief is the way they do it in the Middle-East, the first time they chop off one hand of the thief, the second time they chop off the other hand of the thief and if somehow that thief managed to steal again, they remove that thief head.

    So you see? - Everything is possible, you just have to keep an eye on your valuables at all times and try to get the thief red handed, or better yet, with their dirty hands on the cookie jar and then act accordingly to what you believe is the right thing to do at that time.

    ------------------------------------
    (that thief may sue you*)
    I included this because I still remember a case many years ago on were a thief after entering through an apartment window broke a leg because the people that lived there had some kind of furniture under that window that was responsible for the slip and fall that caused the poor thief to break a leg, so he wind up suing for medical bills the same people he was going to rob.




  3. #3
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    Good thoughts - thanks! Now if I can just find that piece of furniture to put under the window and soon! lol
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  4. #4
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    Hi Guys,

    The best way in dealing with adware and spywear is by educating the masses, which is far easier said than done, especially with sweet temptation of free music downloads and free program downloads.

    IMHO, I see one issue/problem being, if a person isn't involved in affiliate marketing why would they be to concerned about an Adware program overwriting an affiliate cookie... to most aware it's just another darn annoying pop-up ad that can be fixed by simply closing it, and the user not even realizing it has written or overwritten a cookie. As surprising as it may seem, most 'hobby' Internet users still think a cookie is something that lives in a Jar in the kitchen pantry!

    What is needed is constant education, awareness and telling people point blank it's a matter of their online privacy and security - as soon as you start talking about a persons online privacy and possible security violations they tend to sit up and take a little more notice and interest. Once explained and re-explained the penny will drop and the user will soon realize the free music and free download applications comes at a very hefty price to their own internet privacy. Unfortunately adware isn't going to disappear, well not soon enough for affiliates anyway, so it's vital to educate people any way you can by hammering home the issues that concerns the person internet privacy and security. Don't bother telling them it overwrites your affiliate cookie... they won't care as most would know what an affiliate is and this won't mean a thing to them!

    So if you think all this seem daunting and you can't do anything thing about it, think again! Anyone can do their little bit to help educate and building awareness. Start with what you know best, create a single web page about the dangers of adware and spyware and place a link to it prominently on your web site, include the adware warnings in your newsletters and your in email siggy - remember, if every one adds a drop to the anti-adware pool, it won't be to long before the pool becomes a raging torrent!
    Happy selling,

    Les

    Automate... automate... automate!
    LES: Link Exchange Scripts, Affiliate Shopping Mall Scripts and Merchant product showcase scripts at
    http://www.linkexchangescripts.com

  5. #5
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webby
    Hi Guys,


    IMHO, I see one issue/problem being, if a person isn't involved in affiliate marketing why would they be to concerned about an Adware program overwriting an affiliate cookie
    That is one of the problems for sure. I really don't think the average consumer cares if the site they are shopping gets credit or not. That isn't to say that everyone falls into that group but having dealt w/ consumers f2f for years, one of the hardest things to generate is loyalty and the power of the magic dollar can strip that loyalty away in a blink.

    I think it's a good suggestion to put up a note about it because a small percentage may care but if they are having to teach ethics at schools now, it doesn't say much about where peoples heads (in general) are "at". Have you ever seen a basic 'ethics' company manual? It's like reading War and Peace - mega pages! And when you finish with it you get to read the equally large - Sexual Harassment Guide. The fact that this stuff has to be taught is frightening in itself.

    Oh well. I'm getting off topic but yes, trying to train the general public can't hurt. I just have a McDonald’s mentality sometimes... I want the magic pill to take that will make all the parasites go away instantly.

    Thanks for your thoughts!
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  6. #6
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal

    The best way to deal with a thief is the way they do it in the Middle-East, the first time they chop off one hand of the thief, the second time they chop off the other hand of the thief and if somehow that thief managed to steal again, they remove that thief head.
    I'm game where's the cleaver? lol
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  7. #7
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    Right Idea - Wrong Target
    Quote Originally Posted by webby
    Hi Guys,

    The best way in dealing with adware and spywear is by educating the masses, which is far easier said than done, especially with sweet temptation of free music downloads and free program downloads.

    IMHO, I see one issue/problem being, if a person isn't involved in affiliate marketing why would they be to concerned about an Adware program overwriting an affiliate cookie... to most aware it's just another darn annoying pop-up ad that can be fixed by simply closing it, and the user not even realizing it has written or overwritten a cookie. As surprising as it may seem, most 'hobby' Internet users still think a cookie is something that lives in a Jar in the kitchen pantry!

    What is needed is constant education, awareness and telling people point blank it's a matter of their online privacy and security - as soon as you start talking about a persons online privacy and possible security violations they tend to sit up and take a little more notice and interest. Once explained and re-explained the penny will drop and the user will soon realize the free music and free download applications comes at a very hefty price to their own internet privacy. Unfortunately adware isn't going to disappear, well not soon enough for affiliates anyway, so it's vital to educate people any way you can by hammering home the issues that concerns the person internet privacy and security. Don't bother telling them it overwrites your affiliate cookie... they won't care as most would know what an affiliate is and this won't mean a thing to them!

    So if you think all this seem daunting and you can't do anything thing about it, think again! Anyone can do their little bit to help educate and building awareness. Start with what you know best, create a single web page about the dangers of adware and spyware and place a link to it prominently on your web site, include the adware warnings in your newsletters and your in email siggy - remember, if every one adds a drop to the anti-adware pool, it won't be to long before the pool becomes a raging torrent!

    An even better way would be to educate the MERCHANTS! I find it hard to believe that merchants would continue to do business with theses "high performing affiliates" if they knew that at least part of the reason they were so high performing is that their parasitic software causes commissions to be paid even when no comissions would be due. These merchants are paying commissions unneccessarily!

    A most excellent site (I have it in my feed reader) is http://www.benedelman.org/. Do a search for "commission junction" - it's enought to make you want to just give up affiliate marketing.

    There is strength in numbers and here at abw we have those numbers. What we don't have is organization. If the merchants could be shown, with proof, that these scumware affiliates are ripping them off, maybe things would change.

    White Wolf
    Blessed Be,
    White Wolf

  8. #8
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    Some of these problems, at least those related to free or forced downloads, will be somewhat abated with future legislation. It may take several years to see a noticeable impact though.

    If you want to feed your family tomorrow and the next day, the best way to "fight" parasites is simply not to feed them. Pursue avenues that are insulated from the leeches grip; promote merchants on Shareasale and look for in-house program merchants who appreciate and reward affiliate's efforts.

  9. #9
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    Thumbs up Absolutely!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_Chicken
    Some of these problems, at least those related to free or forced downloads, will be somewhat abated with future legislation. It may take several years to see a noticeable impact though.

    If you want to feed your family tomorrow and the next day, the best way to "fight" parasites is simply not to feed them. Pursue avenues that are insulated from the leeches grip; promote merchants on Shareasale and look for in-house program merchants who appreciate and reward affiliate's efforts.

    There are soooo many more options than there were even just 2 years ago that you CAN avoid the parasites. One thing I do before I sign up for a merchant's affiliate program (at cj) is to go to ebate's merchant list and check to see if they're on it. If they are, I don't promote them. If they aren't on the list, they just recruited another affiliate marketer that will send them traffic.

    Chocolate Chicken, I, too, believe that will change eventually. As I stated previously, merchants don't realize (yet) that they are paying commissions when no commissions are due according to their tos. Sooner or later they will wake up to the fact that these parasitic programs not only rip off legitimate affiliates, they are ripping off the MERCHANTS, too! However, I'm surprised that these merchants are so dense it hasn't happened yet.

    Peace & Blessings,
    White Wolf
    Blessed Be,
    White Wolf

  10. #10
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    "you CAN avoid the parasites."

    You can avoid working with merchants that allow them in but you can't avoid them affecting you completely. Clean merchants get popped on, even merchants that don't even have affiliate programs get popped on. SE results get popped on, somebody is probably popping on your site.

    "One thing I do before I sign up for a merchant's affiliate program (at cj) is to go to ebate's merchant list and check to see if they're on it. If they are, I don't promote them. If they aren't on the list, they just recruited another affiliate marketer that will send them traffic."

    That's just one. A merchant might not be on that list but could be on several others.

    "However, I'm surprised that these merchants are so dense it hasn't happened yet."

    A lot of them know but work with them anyway.

    As far as legislation, it'll help to a point, but i'm not counting on it since many Adware have their own lobbyists going to work.

    But the majority of Adware will eventually go away, since the majority of people given the choice between 2 identical computers, one with adware and one without, will choose the one without. The problem at this point is they just don't know how to get rid of it and most of the time not even how they got it in the first place. You don't have an Adware problem if people visiting your site have clean computers. That's where you beat Adware - Clean Computers

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    "you CAN avoid the parasites."

    You can avoid working with merchants that allow them in but you can't avoid them affecting you completely. Clean merchants get popped on, even merchants that don't even have affiliate programs get popped on. SE results get popped on, somebody is probably popping on your site.

    "One thing I do before I sign up for a merchant's affiliate program (at cj) is to go to ebate's merchant list and check to see if they're on it. If they are, I don't promote them. If they aren't on the list, they just recruited another affiliate marketer that will send them traffic."

    That's just one. A merchant might not be on that list but could be on several others.

    "However, I'm surprised that these merchants are so dense it hasn't happened yet."

    A lot of them know but work with them anyway.

    As far as legislation, it'll help to a point, but i'm not counting on it since many Adware have their own lobbyists going to work.

    But the majority of Adware will eventually go away, since the majority of people given the choice between 2 identical computers, one with adware and one without, will choose the one without. The problem at this point is they just don't know how to get rid of it and most of the time not even how they got it in the first place. You don't have an Adware problem if people visiting your site have clean computers. That's where you beat Adware - Clean Computers
    TrustNo1,

    I agree. I would also like to restate my position where I said educating the merchants is the solution. Educating BOTH merchants and the general public is the answer. I just came from a forum a couple of days ago where they LOVE EBATES! They don't know and don't care that it is adware - I'm quoting one of the forum posters "I just LOVE getting those rebate checks!" I jumped in where someone couldn't figure out how ebates got on her computer - you can bet I let her know it probably was without her permission. This was news to her that this could happen! They also did not know that ebates was switching codes so they were they only ones getting paid no matter what. Some of them DID care that was happening!

    Unfortunately, it's going to be a long haul and a tough fight. We CAN do this. Pay attention to forums other than affiliate marketing, jump in and tell them what is going on when they download this stuff! If enough of us do this, it WILL change.

    Yes, I realize clean merchants and even SE results get popped. On newer computers (eventually everyone has to upgrade), the pops are blocked. I just got a new computer with XP on it - I've seen less than 10 pops in the past 8 weeks! So this, too, shall pass.

    We can't just roll over and take this. We have to do our part, however small, to fight these dirtbags. Don't think you can't make a difference because you CAN! Speak up! This is a case of - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

    Peace & Blessings,
    White Wolf
    Blessed Be,
    White Wolf

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