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  1. #1
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    Todd, just a note...
    An affiliate with pid: ****** is bidding on the trademarked term, household finance. He's been doing this for over 1 month. His result is 1st position in a google search for household finance. Ironically, the actual company is in second position.

    LINK: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

    AD:
    Household Finance
    www.householdfinance.com Apply online for HFC loans. Get the credit you deserve. affiliate

    AD LINK:
    *Affiliate Link and PID (above) Removed *

    Normally, I wouldnt post this here, but this has been going on for a LONG time, it's hurting other legitimate affiliates who do not violate the rules by bidding on trademarked terms and I have already reported this to Household finance and CJ by email.......
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; June 13th, 2005 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    What's this got to do with Todd? Thats up to the merchant on what they allow.

  3. #3
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    Sorry about the PID and affiliate link thing...

    This has everything to do with Todd. I already emailed every CJ address I have about this and I even contacted the merchant about this.

    I was hoping that since Todd is a special liasion that he could do something about it.

  4. #4
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    This has nothing to with Todd. Todd is not the merchants. It's a merchant issue.

  5. #5
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    Well, my experience is that when someone bids on a trademarked keyword, "network quality" or "CJ Client Services" can enforce it. I have personally seen this from back when I was new and didn't know what I was doing -- I got a warning....

  6. #6
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    There are merchants who allow affiliates to bid on their TM, even tell you the variations you can use and how much you can bid. CJ even has a keyword link where merchants can set the terms on what's allowed and what's not. If not sure, ask the merchant. Maybe Household Finance said it was ok. That's why i said you should ask them.

  7. #7
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    "We currently do not allow any search engine bidding on trademark-related terms. Failure to comply may result in termination from our program."

    FROM:
    Household Finance Corporation

    Contact: Account Manager Mail
    Email: use_account_manager_mail@cj.com
    Country: UNITED STATES
    URL: http://www.hfc.com
    Currency: USD United States Dollar

    Joined Network: 08-13-2004

    Category: Loans (show similar advertisers)

    Description: HFC and Beneficial are committed to helping you earn commissions by offering your site visitors a wide range of loan options. For over 125 years we've been helping real people find real solutions to their financial needs. Our short application can assist your visitors in applying for a personal loan, mortgage refinance loan, or home equity loan. Payouts occur for both renters and homeowners. For traffic referred from your site we will pay $12 for every homeowner lead (applicant submits the first page of our application and lands on page 2), and $12 for every renter application that qualifies for a personal loan. Join us today and see how quickly your commissions can add up!

    HFC and Beneficial are sub-prime lenders who offer loans to those that may have less than perfect credit. Our average customer is between the ages of 35-44 and has a FICO score of 640.

    HFC and Beneficial are subsidiaries of HSBC North America, one of the largest banking and financial services organizations in the world. We have the experience and resources to offer loans that help customers reach their financial goals and realize their dreams.

    HFC loans not available in Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Maine, Mississippi, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Wyoming, and Washington DC.

    Beneficial loans not available in Alaska, Arkansas, Mississippi, North Dakota, Vermont, and Washington DC.

    We currently do not allow any search engine bidding on trademark-related terms. Failure to comply may result in termination from our program.

    Email marketing for the HFC/Beneficial program is only allowable when we approve lists before a publisher mailing.

    The HFC/Beneficial program has chosen not to work with publishers who use software to distribute advertisements.

  8. #8
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    Is household finance an actual TM term? "household finance" is being bid on by many affiliates.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...22&btnG=Search

    Seems generic to me like auto finance, auto insurance, home loans etc. Could be wrong, don't know much about that sector.

  9. #9
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    From the United States Patent and Trademark Office....


    Word Mark HOUSEHOLD FINANCE
    Goods and Services IC 036. US 102. G & S: COMPLETE CONSUMER CREDIT SERVICE, INCLUDING DIRECT CASH LOANS REPAYABLE IN INSTALLMENTS [ , AND THE PURCHASE OF TIME SALES INSTALLMENT PAPER FROM RETAIL DEALERS ]. FIRST USE: 19400331. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19400331
    Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
    Serial Number 72242985
    Filing Date April 8, 1966
    Current Filing Basis 1A
    Original Filing Basis 1A
    Registration Number 0828902
    Registration Date May 16, 1967
    Owner (REGISTRANT) HOUSEHOLD FINANCE CORPORATION CORPORATION DELAWARE 2700 SANDERS RD. PROSPECT HEIGHTS ILLINOIS 60070
    Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
    Disclaimer THE WORD "FINANCE" IS DISCLAIMED APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN.
    Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
    Register PRINCIPAL
    Affidavit Text SECT 15.
    Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19870516
    Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

  10. #10
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Filing Date April 8, 1966
    Wow!
    Original Filing 39 years ago!

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador ticketguyz's Avatar
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    Sounds like someone has a vendetta...

  12. #12
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    No vendetta really, I just like to see this kinda thing stopped. It's just as contractually breaching as using 180 solutions :-)

  13. #13
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    Technically, this also involves CJ from the legal (contractual) point...

    The CJ Publisher Service Agreement claims that a publisher should not violate the intellectual rights of an advertiser. If this occurs, CJ may at its sole discretion terminate a publisher. It reflects bad on CJ that a publisher can get away by diluting a trademark as he/she wishes. What's even worse is that the advertiser doesn't care :-(

    I still agree with you that the use of parasites is much worse than the use of a trademark......but nonetheless a breach is a breach.......

    btw.....CJ will terminate anyone for any reason at anytime with no explanation. I've seen it happen a lot :-( "High Rollers" get kicked too :-( It's not really an open marketplace, rather a communist marketplace. LOL

    also.....I recall Todd saying somewhere on here that if there were any publishers using parasiteware to report it to him.....that's kinda why I thought he might do somethin about this trademark violator.......because hey a breach is a breach :-)..........but no big deal.....I just found this interesting because usually the merchant (who OWNS the friggin trademark) will jump on it but this is unusual.......

  14. #14
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    "What's even worse is that the advertiser doesn't care :-("

    Ultimately it's up the advertiser, not CJ. So if the advertiser doesn't care, that's your answer.

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Holyearth,

    Trust is right ... it's the merchant's choice / decision.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  16. #16
    Newbie lucky777's Avatar
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    Even if the merchant Puts that in thier program it is still Ultimately up to them to police it....Not you

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador netnow22's Avatar
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    Why do you care so much?
    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    "What's even worse is that the advertiser doesn't care :-("

    Ultimately it's up the advertiser, not CJ. So if the advertiser doesn't care, that's your answer.
    How hard is this to understand?

  18. #18
    I like traffic lights
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    Way to go USPTO! Another trademark given out for a generic descriptive term!

  19. #19
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Hey, if he is your competition, and you think he is infringing on the program's specified rules, you have every right to gripe about it. In the end, my idea of a business goal is to A) be profitable and B) obey the laws of the land. If someone in front of me in the search rankings is not playing fair, I think I should have every right to point that out to the Merchant.

    Todd may or may not respond, but that should not keep you from inquiring from both CJ and the Merchant.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  20. #20
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    "I think I should have every right to point that out to the Merchant."

    They did.

    "What's even worse is that the advertiser doesn't care :-("

    Point is, it's the merchant's decision not Todd's or CJ's. And the merchant doesn't care so what Todd or CJ says means nothing.

  21. #21
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    And my point is, if the merchant placed these restrictions within their affiliate program guidelines, they obviously do care. There is a miscommunication somewhere along the lines, and that merchant needs to clarify it one way or the other: all affiliates can bid on their trademarked names, or no one can.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  22. #22
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    There are tons of laws on the books that police don't enforce because they don't care about them. A lot of merchants put bull shit generic terms in their agreements just to fill in a blank.

  23. #23
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    This thread is actually kind of funny since it was started by someone complaining about hurting legitimate affiliates when they themselves posted about trying out 180 Solutions for stuff like this among others. If this bothers him that much, give them a phone call.

  24. #24
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    From my experience, the merchant must be the one to enforce this. If they say they're going to terminate an affiliate from their affiliate program, then they should do so.

    Quote me on this:
    Empty threats and lax enforcement of trademark policies will lead to more affiliates violating the rules.

  25. #25
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    It's also something you can't hide. If a merchant is concerned about it and clearly stated the rules on what's allowed, all they have to do is go to Google or whatever SE and type their TM in. They can then notify that affiliate and take whatever action they feel is necessary. You also have some merchants that have a set of certain terms posted but have other terms for other affiliates. Dell.com is one example. For most affiliates, you can't bid on their TM. For some they allow it.

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