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  1. #1
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    Smaller PPC engines
    I'm looking into trying out some of the smaller PPC engines, but I'm a little worried about getting burned. Could anyone recommend one. Is there a site that offers a legitimate comparison between them as far as CPC, traffic and conversion rate. Obviously my goal is to get as many visitors as possible for less than I have to pay for Google/Overture.

  2. #2
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    I have used Search123 before and they did fairly well. I have also tried Enhance before, they are ok.

  3. #3
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    Even with Google/Overture you will sometimes get burned.

    I'd advise strongly against use of any of the second-tier PPC operators. They all (repeat: ALL) are infested with sleazy "partners" who will drain your account with artificial clicks.

  4. #4
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I would disagree with 'all'. I've used some in the past, and I saw a definate increase in sales. I had luck with goclick.com and 7search.com .
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  5. #5
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    "I've used some in the past,"

    Me too. Even then there was some drainage, but enough sales to justify the losses.

    No more. They have gotten worse and worse. I did try two that I've had a least reasonable results with in the past for the hell of it recently, and $50 on each did not generate a nickel in sales. Checked server logs and found that several of their sleazy partners homed in on their favorite terms and hit me with about a click per minute from bogus web pages, effectively p!ss!ng away the hundred bucks in one day on 5-to-15-cent clicks. One of the terms was one where I had misspelled both words of a two-word phrase very badly, which would not have garnered two hits a month from Google and Yahoo combined, let alone a bogus webpage on some obscure, bogus site.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate_Chicken
    "I've used some in the past,"

    Me too. Even then there was some drainage, but enough sales to justify the losses.

    No more. They have gotten worse and worse. I did try two that I've had a least reasonable results with in the past for the hell of it recently, and $50 on each did not generate a nickel in sales. Checked server logs and found that several of their sleazy partners homed in on their favorite terms and hit me with about a click per minute from bogus web pages, effectively p!ss!ng away the hundred bucks in one day on 5-to-15-cent clicks. One of the terms was one where I had misspelled both words of a two-word phrase very badly, which would not have garnered two hits a month from Google and Yahoo combined, let alone a bogus webpage on some obscure, bogus site.
    Wow, that's horrible!! I hope you disputed that with their click fraud department (if they even have one). They should reimburse you for those clicks.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  7. #7
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I gotta think, repost later.......
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  8. #8
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    With most of the second-tier PPC engines I've tried out, they've burned through the initial deposit really quick, generating tons of "clicks", but usually little or no sales. (Often, 99% or more of the "clicks" don't even load images or go beyond the landing page.) These are with the same keywords and similar creatives that generate high conversion ratios and a great ROI on Google and Overture.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  9. #9
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    "I hope you disputed that with their click fraud department (if they even have one). "

    But of course

    All canned BS replies though.

    They're only shooting themselves in the foot. Personally I have no qualms about kicking in $1k per day if it's worth it, and there are plenty of others who would spend even more....IF IT WAS WORTH IT.

    Maybe they're making enough money on the sucker-born-every-minute plan: get the first $25 or $50 that they spend before they give up, and then move on to the next mark.

    It really is a damned shame though. A PPC engine that only delivers quality traffic, however little of it, can only grow, as their reputation attracts new traffic partner sites and new advertisers.

  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager PaulS's Avatar
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    I agree.... completely.

    Some of the smaller engines used to provide infrequent but high ROI sales. No more.

    It's a big, fat, honkin' shame.

  11. #11
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I worked out a deal with one PPC to only appear on specific sites. I agreed not to mention the name as part of the agreement. But, if you spend enough, that might be a solution for you as well. You are the one with the money, just make sure you give it to them on your terms.

    Additionally, I am going to look at adbrite.com in the future, mayeb buying ads for specific time frame rather than ppc is the best way to avoid fraud......
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  12. #12
    Member sendmemybill's Avatar
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    wow i'm glad to hear your opinions on smaller PPC engines. I was about to put hundreds $$ in Goclick.com to start my new web site next week. I think I will not lose my time and money and go directly with Overture. Or maybe Google, for a casino software and books oriented website?

    I lost 100$ with my old website on GoClick.com, no sales at all! I thought it was my website the problem, it seems that it was the "false visitors"!

  13. #13
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    DON'T waste money on small PPC engines
    The level of fraud by "partners" of the smaller paid-search sites is simply impossible to manage. As noted, the only practical solution is to demand the right to choose where your ad appears (which partners), and very few of these folks will allow that.

    Keep in mind that many of these guys "resell" or "partner" with each other, so even if you catch fraud at company 1, you may find that companies 2 and 3 are actually partners with company 1, and then when you cancel with companies 2 and 3, you find out that companies 4 and 5 partner with companies 2 and 3, so you continue to pay for fraudulent clicks from company 1.

    I caught one PPC-search company a few years back, and their second-tier partner actually ADMITTED that a third-tier partner had generated fraudulent clicks, and the second-tier partner told me they'd already reported the fraud and credited the first-tier partner -- but the first-tier partner denied it, and refused to issue a credit despite clear proof of fraud.

    The time required to oversee and audit activity from these folks is just not worth the potential traffic benefit. Of course, if I hadn't been through the experience with a half-dozen of these PPC search companies, I'd probably suspect that the other affiliates here are just exaggerating the problem so they don't have to bid against you -- if you don't trust me, go spend $50 with one of these outfits and analyze your log files.

  14. #14
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    I tried enhanced and industry brians and had not had a single conversion. I used my afiliate program to track the conversions. It's a shame. Why do you think alot of these smaller search engine companies don't have the conversion tracking tool for you? There is a GOOD reason why. I remembered back in 2002 when enhance was called ah-ha, they called me asking me to sign up. I asked about the conversion tracking tool and they said they are working on it. 2 years later I started another company and they called me up again asking me to sign up. I asked about their conversion tracking tool again and they said they are still working on it. It's funny how it takes them 3 years to work on a simple conversion tracking tool and it's still not done. All it is, is a simple javascript they implement on their end. No biggie. I think that's the data they don't want you to have. I personally think the smaller search engines is just a waste of money and most importantly time. I wouldn't even bother.

    Here's a funny joke for you.
    Q: Back than when Enhanced.com was known as ah-ha.com why where they called ah-ha.com???
    A: because after they take your money, they say ah-ha!!

  15. #15
    Member sendmemybill's Avatar
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    ah-ha!! very good joke :P

    Hey what do you think about Miva? Someone have good results with them? Cause when I look at their partners networks, what a batch of partners..junk..
    But they seems to be the only PPC engines I can add funds without a credit card from Canada

    I'm blocked, can't continue what was in my business plan grrrrr

  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Skip Miva. Stay with Google and Yahoo (formerly Overture).

  17. #17
    Member sendmemybill's Avatar
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    Ok thank you ! Someone use Google or Yahoo PPC engine without a credit card and are from Canada? Something like a wire transfer with us swift code option..

    I hope one day Canada will have pre-paid credit card(or can't find it), I don't want to live in credit, hate it as hell.

  18. #18
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    Wish I found this thread before. I am currnetly trying goClick and am very disappointed. Over 250 hits without one click thru. Thought it was my site, but after reading these messages I guess I just made a mistake. Oh well, you live and learn. My fault for not checking ABW first.

    Jim

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Most all 3rd world- second tier PPCSE's are run by sleazy affiliates and traffic sheister outfits. I love to hear the desperate affiliate marketers and cheapskate merchants getting ripped royalily by the cookie stuffing syndicates. Go ahead and throw away that money on the hidden 1x1 pixel cookie setting page views as you deserve each other. Most sleazy affiliates just do it to appear in the BHO search bars and 180Solutions type popups any how.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  20. #20
    Member sendmemybill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim132
    Wish I found this thread before. I am currnetly trying goClick and am very disappointed. Over 250 hits without one click thru. Thought it was my site, but after reading these messages I guess I just made a mistake. Oh well, you live and learn. My fault for not checking ABW first.

    Jim
    Man I so understand you I lost almost the same hits as you last week with NO SINGLE click thru and I can tell you that my web site is a strong one lol and the keywords were so targeted it is impossible that no one clicked one single time! And I will save you from listing the referrers, ho my...!

    I knew Goclick was bad because I readed this thread but I'm always like that, I have to test it myself....

    Before loosing all my money I asked Goclick a refund. Let's see tomorrow what their cheapy answers will be.

    I converted myself to SEO today, I almost worked 4 hours on search engine optimisation with the help of a forum listed first when you search SEO forum :P I do believe in SEO, my website is getting stronger lol
    "Effective people are not problem-minded; they're opportunity minded. They feed opportunities and starve problems."

  21. #21
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    findwhat, miva (looksmart), kanoodle all f'd me real good with a super-quick drain of TOTAL BOGUS TRAFFIC. I complained like crazy and couldn't get much recourse from any of them. I couldn't make $ with adbrite either.

    I'd love to hear about *any* advertising methods other than Goog & yhoo that actually work well enough for affiliate marketing.

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The last PPCSE to come here to hawk their sleazy syndicated keywords was Ah-Ha. They didn't last but one thread. Take everyones advice and let these junk PPCSE traffic and site scraper SEO/SEM marketers eat each other.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  23. #23
    Member sendmemybill's Avatar
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    Goclick gave me a refund, and closed my account. I spent the cash on a book called The Business of Writing for Children: An Award-Winning Author's Tips on Writing and Publishing Children's Books, or How to Write, Publish, and Promote a Book for Kids.

    This is my second dream after affiliate marketing. I want to pubish an illustrated books for childrens! Believe me, I have more chance to do that than selling with Smaller PPC engines.
    "Effective people are not problem-minded; they're opportunity minded. They feed opportunities and starve problems."

  24. #24
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    findgift PPC
    I am checking into a PPC click site called findgift. It is specifically for gift related sites and has no partners, you have an image and description and price of the specific product as well so the viewer can decide whether or not they should click through. This seems to be a unique and worthy option for those of us with gift related sites.

    Ron Askotzky
    Wow-imports
    Last edited by wowimportsusa; November 13th, 2005 at 02:28 AM. Reason: mistake in name of service referring to!

  25. #25
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Things are not always as they seem.

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