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  1. #1
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Surely THIS is against the TOS...
    A customer clicks thru my website and places an order with a merchant.

    Their online order form - like many - asks the customer to enter their catalog keycode.

    Customer seaches her house for catalog, and enters code.

    Merchant reverses the sale stating they can only use ONE source code - and when customers enter their catalog keycode, they reverse the affiliate.

    Isn't credit supposed to be given to the LAST CLICK - regardless of what info customer enters on the order form?

    Aargh!

  2. #2
    lurk
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    My company deals with something like this although its slightly different. A sales rep can be dealing with a lead for 3 months before they decide to take our course... if the person finally decides to spend the $600 to enroll but they do it online does the affiliate get the commission or the sales rep who was been spending 3 months talking the person into enrolling?

    There are valid points from both sides... guess it depends on the companies preference on who is going to get paid in these types of situations.

  3. #3
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    In this case... the merchant doesn't commission ANYONE - they keep ALL the profits despite the fact I did the work to get the customer.

  4. #4
    15 years and counting
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    Billy Kay - Merchant reverses the sale stating they can only use ONE source code - and when customers enter their catalog keycode, they reverse the affiliate.
    I've always been wondering about that. I've several merchants at LinkShare using these catalog keycodes.
    If you have the proof of that, it's another big breach of agreement.

  5. #5
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    Though I agree on the last click getting credit for the sale, if the customer has a catalog in the house the merchant has a pretty strong argument for a self-generated referral.

  6. #6
    lurk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    In this case... the merchant doesn't commission ANYONE - they keep ALL the profits despite the fact I did the work to get the customer.
    Ah! Right. In this case, I definatly agree that you should be awarded teh commission. I think there are too many misinformed AM's (or their boss's) out there. The company may earn an extra $5 not paying the commission... but that is compensating for a potential loss of an affiliate who could have made them much more in the future.

  7. #7
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Though I agree on the last click getting credit for the sale, if the customer has a catalog in the house the merchant has a pretty strong argument for a self-generated referral.
    If this is the case what was the customer doing on Billy's site in the first place?
    Surely if they had a catalog the merchants own URL would be plastered all over it not Billy's URL
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  8. #8
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    Chocolate Chicken - if the customer has a catalog in the house the merchant has a pretty strong argument for a self-generated referral.
    I don't agree, if the customer is on the merchant site, it's because of the affiliate. if the customer go back to pick up his catalog it's because there's a reminder on the shopping cart to add the keycode. The catalog did nothing to close the sale, the affiliate did all the work. He has to be paid.

  9. #9
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    Isn't credit supposed to be given to the LAST CLICK - regardless of what info customer enters on the order form?

    Aargh!
    Yes, if a merchant trully wants to run an honest, ethical affiliate program, yes absolutely. You were the one to bring in the sale, you spent your marketing dollars and or expertise to drive that customner.

    The merchant can elect where to send affiliate traffic based on several factors using referrer url's, affiliate links etc. and in many cases he can control what upsell and conversion fucntions shows on the shopping cart such as "discount codes".

    Billy, send them to my seminar
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
    www.andyrodriguez.com | E: abw@andyrodriguez.com | P: (888) 931-ANDY (2639) | Skype: affiliatedoctor | AIM & MSN: AffiliateDoctor | Subscribe To Our ABW Forum Posts | Follow me on Twitter | Join Our Affiliate Programs

  10. #10
    lurk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon
    If this is the case what was the customer doing on Billy's site in the first place?
    Surely if they had a catalog the merchants own URL would be plastered all over it not Billy's URL

    Correct... just because they had a catelog doesn't mean that they were going to buy something. A huge thing in Marketing is your presense... having people see your product over and over and over again. Billy's website was simply assisting in their marketing and got them to go ahead with the purchase.

    Theres a good chance that without Billys website marketing their product the user could have gone to the next website and purchased the same product from a competitor.

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    What merchant (or merchant middleman) is doing this nasty to their affiliates? Does placing a paper catalog code in the box get them a discount off the web e-catalog price? I assume the catalog# =that shoppers account # on the mailing label.

    The paper catalog shopper usually types in the merchant URL and fills out some register account info just one time so the cart remembers them. That direct URL type in is non-commissionable, unless that same shopper earlier came through a cookied affiliate link with return days remaining. Paper catalog merchants have way too many commission diversion tools at their disposal already without some commission washing ALERT box in their cart. I'll go check out some with that "search by cat# box and see if that triggers the account alert box.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  12. #12
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon
    If this is the case what was the customer doing on Billy's site in the first place?
    Surely if they had a catalog the merchants own URL would be plastered all over it not Billy's URL
    Exactly! I should have spotted that logic hole in their excuse right away...
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  13. #13
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    Unfortunately this is all gray area and semantics. The use of the catalog code to screw you out of the sale seems shady. But the question of "who is more responsible for the sale?" is unaswerable because each case is different. What you hope is that if the last affiliate to send the click is the one who gets the sale and another affiliate is the one that did all the work, that this will all even out in the end. it'll happen the other way around and everything will be kosher. Statistically, this is likely to happen and no complaining should occur

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    I don't think it's semantics at all.

    Yes, it is surely against the TOS. And surely the merchant will say it isn't.

  15. #15
    Internet Cowboy
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    ...
    Last edited by UncleScooter; July 8th, 2005 at 04:20 PM. Reason: not worth it


  16. #16
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Thumbs down OUT the MoFo's!
    Several of my merchants in Performics are catalog companies. I see the initial catalog request pay me a dime and usually the order comes along 2-10 days later. No problem there.

    so who are these clueless ones??

  17. #17
    Internet Cowboy
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    I have seen several merchants who strip you of commission if a coupon code from another source is entered. It is just plain wrong. If that source was to get credit for the sale, they should have gotten the web address from that source.


  18. #18
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    I would of thought the purpose of affiliates were to bring in new customers new sales. If the person had a catalog from said merchant are they really a new customer?

  19. #19
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    I would of thought the purpose of affiliates were to bring in new customers new sales. If the person had a catalog from said merchant are they really a new customer?
    The purpose of affiliates is to bring in sales. If the customer had a catalog and the merchant did it's job originally, the customer would have gone back to the merchant's site. They wouldn't have gone through an affiliate site. The affiliate directed them back to the merchant's site so the affiliate should get paid for the sale.

    Whether a customer has been around for a while or is new doesn't matter (or shouldn't.) If the customer went through an affiliate site and made a purchase whether they are an old or new customer, the affiliate gets the sale. Period.

  20. #20
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    ~Billy Kay Surely this is against the TOS...

    You'd need to take a careful look at the TOS. More Merchant's are slipping in clauses about not paying for traffic coming from other advertising channels. It's possible the Merchant has such a clause in their TOS. By having a box asking for the catalog code, they would be bringing the sale under the umbrella of their TOS to reverse and not pay.

    If they have no such clause in their TOS and all other conditions (return days, etc) have been met to pay a commision, then they would be breaking their agreement with the affiliate for what they say they will pay for.

    The debate of who is responsible for the sale and all that is a moot point to Billy's actual question. What is actually contained in the specific Merchant's TOS is what answers the question.

  21. #21
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    This is a CJ merchant. Anyone know where to find a merchant's TOS in CJ?

  22. #22
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    If the Merchant doesn't also have their own TOS aside from CJs, then this is the only way I've found to access the CJ PSA.

    Click the link like you are going to sign up as a new affiliate. Choose your country. The next screen will then bring up the PSA.

  23. #23
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    The website (Billy's site) should get the sale, it's who closes.

  24. #24
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    Who is that merchant? Sounds like a merchant to avoid promoting.

  25. #25
    http and a telephoto
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    customer had a catalog. Catalog didn't give customer info or incentive to make purchase. Visit to affiliate's webiste prompted click that created purchase. Catalog or not, this person's sale was generated by the affiliate. period. end of speculation.

    I also want to know who the merchant is. Time to drop them.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

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