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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager nish's Avatar
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    Question Does 2-tier structure influence your decision of joining a program?
    Does a 2-tier structure influence your decision of joining a program?

    For the programs that support a 2-tier structure (with decent sub-commision), how actively do you participate in recruiting sub-affiliates?

  2. #2
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Yes, it influences me. I prefer merchants without a 2-tier structure.

    If they can afford to pay affiliates 10% and a second tier 5%, they could have afforded to pay me 15% if they didn't have the second tier. I'm getting a 33% cut in commissions.

    The main group of "affiliates" that a second tier appeals to are affiliate directories. I'd much rather see affiliate directories set up with a listing fee.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  3. #3
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    They want we should recruit our own competitors. Yeah, right!
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Yes, it influences me. I prefer merchants without a 2-tier structure.

    If they can afford to pay affiliates 10% and a second tier 5%, they could have afforded to pay me 15% if they didn't have the second tier. I'm getting a 33% cut in commissions.

    The main group of "affiliates" that a second tier appeals to are affiliate directories. I'd much rather see affiliate directories set up with a listing fee.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSANF
    They want we should recruit our own competitors. Yeah, right!
    AMEN! Besides, the majority of affiliates DON'T DO ANYTHING! I might as well direct all that work into another site - that way I know I will reap the rewards.

    Peace & Blessings,
    White Wolf
    Blessed Be,
    White Wolf

  5. #5
    Full Member asr_guy's Avatar
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    As a general rule I would agree you need to look at that closely and see if it makes sense for the business you are in as an affiliate, and also as a merchant. I think it depends on the product and vertical you are in.

    Some affiliate software platforms go beyond 2 tier. I have seen 3, 4, 5 and higher tiers supported. The higher the tier, the more likely they have merchants who are in a market where it makes sense to have multi-tiers. e.g. some sort of product where the recruiting is part of the sale. Could be MLM type products or similar idea.

    Cheers,
    Peter

  6. #6
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I was a member of an affiliate program on MyAP that had a two-tier plan. In 5 years, I got 21 second tier affiliates (although I only promoted products and coupons, not the affiliate program) and earned a total of $121.96 from those second tier affiliates. That was miniscule compared to the direct commissions I earned. I would have done far better getting a 25% commission instead of 20%/5%.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Since 1997 I have a ton of 2nd tier signups from my join BF -CJ -LS network links. To date the total earnings are $8.12. Only purpose for 2+ tier affiliate recruiting is for masking the identity of the 2nd tier tricksters making the recruiter into a CPA network (a Superaffiliate). They unloose the click/cookie tricksters and spammers to rape the merchants while adding a layer between themselves and the victims.

    BHO's and PPCSE operators do the same thing every day. It becomes like pealing layers off a smelly onion while your crying about your not responsible for the illegal actions of your hired thugs. Networks should pull the plug on all 2+ tier commission payouts.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  8. #8
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I bet these aren't the answers Nish was looking for. But I bet they're pretty revealing!
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  9. #9
    Full Member asr_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    Since 1997 I have a ton of 2nd tier signups from my join BF -CJ -LS network links. To date the total earnings are $8.12. ...
    So why do you have the links if they take traffic off your site and don't pay and are helping the bad guys?

  10. #10
    http and a telephoto
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    Personally I like 2 tier because I help other people get started in niche businesses AND I help organizations set up fundraising sites. I don't have an incentive to do that if programs are not 2 tier. I don't want a cut of the profits the people I help out are making, I get it from the merchant.

    Just another point of view.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asr_guy
    So why do you have the links if they take traffic off your site and don't pay and are helping the bad guys?
    I had them on client sites and lot's of my own pages. Several years ago I started yanking them as I found them when the networks announced they pay zip on new signup from those old creatives. I then noticed the network's (actual Merchant) are the slowest paying sleezebags on their entire roster. Amazing, if uncovered and clicked, they all land on the networks signup page as FREE traffic.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  12. #12
    Affiliate Manager nish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    I bet these aren't the answers Nish was looking for. But I bet they're pretty revealing!
    Michael, Thats absolutely true. I was expecting replies like... yeah, we WANT 2-tier structure. So glad I asked this question here and got all these replies.

    ecomcity, I agree with your point on cookie tricksters. And SSanf, you are right.. why would an affiliate want more competition.

    cheers!
    -nish

  13. #13
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by nish
    And SSanf, you are right.. why would an affiliate want more competition.
    Competition is going to come anyway, I'd rather get paid for the competition.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager nish's Avatar
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    So would you guys think similarly about an Affiliate referral program aswell? This would be something along the lines of.. an affiliate refers someone. Now if that someone joins the program and if he/she reaches the min payment threshold, the original affiliate's commision increases by lets say 2%.

    After reading all the replies, I doubt if such a thing would be popular but still.. would like to hear from u.

  15. #15
    Full Member asr_guy's Avatar
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    I think we've covered most of the tradeoffs here. It depends on what you are selling, some people worry about competition and others accept it and like to have it "under" them, monitor if it's worth doing and yank the links out if not.

    Another point to consider is what sort of "pre-selling" are you doing to motivate those sub-tiers? Are you prepared to send them a message now and then to give them some tricks on how to sell more? If all you are going to do is say "make money fast by being an affiliate" and send them off, it's probably not worth doing.

    It's not so black and white and depends on your situation/context.

  16. #16
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    "Competition is going to come anyway, I'd rather get paid for the competition.'

    Competition happens naturally, you don't recruit it.

    Message #86

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...tion+naturally

    When i first started i always found it funny how people don't think long term. I would see CJ or some other network links on affiliate sites with affiliates hoping someone will sign up and make a few bucks. But when that person signs up, what site do you think will inspire them?

  17. #17
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Another point to consider is what sort of "pre-selling" are you doing to motivate those sub-tiers? Are you prepared to send them a message now and then to give them some tricks on how to sell more?
    "Now and then" is far less than what it really takes to get them performing if they're newbies. So NO!

    But--A lot of networks give no clue at all as to who signed up in a sub-tier, much less any contact info! So, even if I was willing to send clue train tickets, I'd have no idea where to deliver them.

    The only 2nd-tier signup I've had that's been worth a darn is my mother...and that's because I could corral her and drill in the "how tos" for as long as it took. And, since she's my mother, I was willing to do it.
    But, after seeing what it took to get a newbie up and running, beyond posting here? No Way would I do that for a stranger or even other relatives. Talk about an endless, mountainous job. From what I've seen, such time spent will not ever be made up for financially (versus spending that time building your own sites)...hence it's best left only as a real labor of love. Cuz love and gratitude is about all you're gonna get~! Even when the sub-tier payments started to become "decent" they couldn't touch my own regular commissions.

    5% of *someone else's commission* is really peanuts. Put it like this: Product = $100, 1st-tier =10% ($10) 2nd tier = 5% of that. 5% of $10 = 50c!! So, 50c/sale instead of $10/sale. It's a bad deal financially, to spend that time going after 50c instead of $10s.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  18. #18
    Full Member asr_guy's Avatar
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    @Leader - good point. Sub-tiers is like slipping MLM into an affiliate program. In my experience MLM is way too much work and little reward = bad ROI = forget it. But as we have noted if the product or service has some MLM component then it might make sense.

    There is actually MLM software that merchants use as a technology platform for their affiliate programs and vice versa. It depends on the context.

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The initial draw to recruit affiliates for the networks was they paid 5 cents per valid click. Some bonus for signup and a percent in 2nd tier met minimum. That went out with CPC.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Vrindavan's Avatar
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    >> Does a 2-tier structure influence your decision of joining a program?

    Sales conversion is the most important factor for me

    >>For the programs that support a 2-tier structure (with decent sub-commision), how actively do you participate in recruiting sub-affiliates?

    i like to do selling primarily

  21. #21
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Does a 2-tier structure influence your decision of joining a program?
    I don't even look for that feature anymore.

    For the programs that support a 2-tier structure (with decent sub-commision), how actively do you participate in recruiting sub-affiliates?
    After did the marketingtips, sitesell and a few more of those programs in the late 90's and I didn't get to receive all the results that I was expecting from the sub-affiliates I had, I no longer participate in recruiting any sub-affiliates to any new merchant I join, I rather concentrate in earning my own commission from the merchant and not waste time recruiting sub-affiliates to sell under me so I can make some extra peanuts again.

    But, I have left that door unlocked, just in case a super special good program, come along my way one day.

    ...

  22. #22
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    recruiting sub affilates
    lol u dont recruit sub affiiates

    for instance i get $102 dollars monthly and $21 monthly 2nd tier on a new affiliate program

    and if someone buys the product , then yes i promote offering it to their friends and colleagues

    however i dont actively go out and recruit sub affiliates

    however if i do have sub affiliates say earning $21 then yes in a way their earning me money

    but also in the long term im building a list of people who are willing maybe to do business with me in the future

    as jay abrahams says its not the initial putchase thats the important part its the life time of that customer

  23. #23
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I want to add there is one time I have used it.

    I had a merchant who became a payment problem. He was three months behind and had become a real snot about it. I knew all the other high earning affiliates he had because he had an open forum kind of newsletter and we had started e-mailing each other privately. When he seemed as if he was going to stiff us all, I found another merchant who carried all the same stuff and joined that merchant. Since I knew the others would eventually do the same, I contacted all the others and recruited them to the new program. I, now, get at least something from each sell made by my competitors and now friends.

    For this, I found 2 tier useful. And, it gave me leverage to get a higher commish than I already had as well.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  24. #24
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    nish - Does a 2-tier structure influence your decision of joining a program?
    Sure, I don't work with 2-tier structure and I don't use any.
    First I don't believe in these multi level structures. I don't have to promote my competition and then, like Michael Coley said "If they can afford to pay affiliates 10% and a second tier 5%, they could have afforded to pay me 15% if they didn't have the second tier."

  25. #25
    Full Member c4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    If they can afford to pay affiliates 10% and a second tier 5%, they could have afforded to pay me 15% if they didn't have the second tier.
    Not quite, most (all?) 2-tier affiliate programs pay 5% of the second sale commission (Leader already said it). So if you get paid 5% for second tier and your commission is 10.5%, not 15% (10% 1st tier + 5% of 10% (makes 0.5% on sale total) 2nd tier). So actually if they have 1st tier with 10% 2nd tier with 5% they aren't paying 15% commission, they are paying 10.5%.

    Back to the topic: I am no big money earner as an affiliate, but when I am looking to join one having 2-tiers has no influence at my decision. I am looking for merchants who convert, pay and help me make sales. 1st tier commission is all I need.
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