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  1. #1
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    ROLMAO. CJ takes the top couponers and Master-rebaters, who never push products, just trademarks- Merchant URLs and brands to the next level. Integration with every single CJ sponsored BHO assures CJ makes the ultimate 200 Cookie Cannons aimed at 79,000 affiliate value-add slaves. What is CJ trying to do? Make the the couponers/rebaters expand into datafeed SERP spammers, where their expertise lies. Tie the domainbound incenters into the CJ special incentive tracking system to level the playing field between them and the BHO's?

    Hey where's the bone to be thrown to the worker bees so we stay within the crosshairs of the 200 Cookie Cannons? Seems the data mining network Spyware has shown the CJ commission pool can be monopolized when combined with their SEO/SEM department if you know which merchants at BF and CJ convert using the POS (Point of Sale) attack dogs.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  2. #2
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    "ROLMAO. CJ takes the top couponers and Master-rebaters, who never push products, just trademarks- Merchant URLs and brands to the next level. Integration with every single CJ sponsored BHO assures CJ makes the ultimate 200 Cookie Cannons aimed at 79,000 affiliate value-add slaves."

    Mike. Legit affiilates can make money too. There's going to be some BHO's and some bad players in that 200 but also good hard working affiliates.

  3. #3
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Mike's the only one who makes money legitimately. Didn't you know that?
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
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  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'm just jealous Michael ...you know that! I've been swimming against the current since 1997.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Rexanne it sounds like my gripe for years. Not one click from EcomCity since 1997 wasn't a physical targeted network code generated referral. Anyone not liking my site design can close the browser window. Anyone not interested on the sample product ( price shown) can refuse to click on the link. If they take the time to load one of my pages and browse the content they have already endured enough pain to qualify them as a shopper. I hawk the good stuff... cheap! Dialup users go find a coupon site as my shoppers are savvy enough to have broadband and a Credit Card.

    I demand merchants accept closing responsibility and tracking responsibility after a volume of referrals gets sent their way. I hold their feet to the fire using ABW as the sounding board. If something smells fishy to me, after a few thousand clicks, IT IS FISHY and a smart AM best address and get to the bottom of the breakage. Blowing smoke up my butt, or blaming my traffic doesn't cut it. Deflection of a huge drop in my conversion ratio with an establish trusted merchant means they're failing me, and therefore failing all their domain bound affiliates.

    I don't buy any traffic. It's all natural SERP traffic based upon page content. I don't e-mail shoppers. I don't display outdated coupons and don't market coupons or daily deals.... I market the hand picked trusted merchant and their products.

    Therefore if I'm alarmed that Overstock hasn't shown a single sale since June 25th after updating creatives and adding more on page exposure to them. Further disturbing is only having 3 sales since June 1st well below my average order price. Regardless of LS now hiding all the prior years June to July stats for Overstock I archieve prime merchant stats for seasonal comparison and conversion stats. I made 29 sales with OS a year ago in that time frame averaging 236.00 per sale. I don't push their cheapo stuff.

    Now OverStock is honest as the day is long. So what's up? Tracking can be broken or sporatic or whacked by an OS dataminer. Someone inside OS or LS could be filtering the batch reports automatically scraping the highend sales from my affiliate ID# and crediting them to a friends account. Or the intrusive LiveHelp perps popping up, even while I'm making individual product links or testing GoldenCan are diverting all my highend referral shoppers as well as the Club-O popups.

    My click referral is still as valid & valuable as it has been for 5 years. So what's up as this is the longest skunk period in Overstock's history at ABW?? Example I replaced some links to a good converting LS merchant who moved to CJ a few days ago. Got 17 clicks resulting in 2 sales totaling 1198.00 in that short time. No interference there folks.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  6. #6
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    Mike your problems with converting have always been pretty much you. Let's take Overstock for example. I'm not having any problems, and other people are doing fine too with a merchant you can't get a sale with. From June and July

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=59044

    I even had my first 3 figure commission day ever Thank you Overstock!

    I'm pretty happy with the June results so far. Nothing huge yet, but at least they're solid and consistent.

    I have sales recorded for every day this month now.

    For June so far I have a 4.72 O/C(%).

    June is looking good here.

    I'm not seeing any problems. Here are my conversion ratios from the past week:

    6/10: 7.5%
    6/11: 6.25%
    6/12: 7.58%
    6/13: 3.95%
    6/14: 4.41%
    6/15: 4.72%
    6/16: 4.71%

    Hmmm, my convertion looks a little better 1,774 222 12.51% 11 24 0 4.95%

    I have sales for every day so far this month.

    June has been great for me.

    It's been pretty good for me so far, I've had 31 orders from 476 clickthroughs (6.51 O/C(%)).

    Right now converting at 15% and averaging about a $1.50 for every click i'm sending them.

    "My click referral is still as valid & valuable as it has been for 5 years. "

    That's just not true and you know i wouldn't have a problem linking to several threads pointing that out. One of my first posts i read from you was you complaining about sending 3500 clicks to 1800Flowers and getting 0 sales. I was a newbie then and only sent them 55 clicks but i had 3 sales. I could go on and on about how your site is not set up to convert, about you refusing to use what a merchant gives you to help conversions, about you leaving Christmas stuff up thru July, i've seen expired coupons on your site before, expired links, a thread you getting on Haiko and BLFH complaining about a merchant that happened to be deactivated if you bothered to check, a thread where you admittedly lied about conversion stats...........so on and so forth. Your conversion problems are more an indication of what you've been doing wrong all these years, not so much the merchant. Try to keep it real and take some responsibility for what's happening.

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    "If something smells fishy to me, after a few thousand clicks, IT IS FISHY and a smart AM best address and get to the bottom of the breakage. Blowing smoke up my butt, or blaming my traffic doesn't cut it. Deflection of a huge drop in my conversion ratio with an establish trusted merchant means they're failing me, and therefore failing all their domain bound affiliates.

    I don't buy any traffic. It's all natural SERP traffic based upon page content. I don't e-mail shoppers. I don't display outdated coupons and don't market coupons or daily deals.... I market the hand picked trusted merchant and their visible priced product ...before the click."


    I don't need some ABW half baked couponer deflecting this fact & message, when the real respected coupon sites like Flamingo World (see RevNews) and Fatwallet are yelling about OS LiveHelp and dropping conversion ratios. I'll ignor the the accusation I'm a lier (considering the source) as anyone in Overstock management knows I'm a straight shooter. At one time here at ABW OS made a special front page auto undating coupon/deal creative just for my site betting me it would convert. They ate crow after 1200+ clicks and put a $50.00 credit on my Overstock account. I trust my credit card and personal information passed through their shopping cart.

    They earlier this year inferred the LiveHelp app was manned by non-commissionable Overstock Employees when I challenged them. If that has changed, or was a deflection, I sure as heck don't want some IAB/DMA telemarketing 3rd party privy to that sellable information. I also don't want LH whacking every EcomCity commission they can scrape from my higher end product referrals. Browse EcomCity.com and click on any OS product showcase link and watch the LiveHelp operators come to attention as they drool over the commission scalping opportunity, assuming they are getting a commission. My highest single sale at Overstock was a $24,473 watch ...before live help.

    Let Overstock clear the air on this matter by posting here.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  8. #8
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Coupon/Datefeed Off Topic Ramblings from Other Threads
    The whole coupon/datafeed debate seems to be coming up in several threads again bringing other threads off topic.

    As such, I'm starting this one thread for those off topic posts from other threads. All such postings from other thread will be split and moved into this thread. While that may make this thread seem somewhat disjointed in the postings, all postings will be preserved and discussions can proceed with less confusions in the other threads.

    So if you have posted in another thread along the lines of 'to coupon/datafeed or not' in another thread and you see your post is gone, then come to this thread. It will be here. I may or may not take to time to link to this thread each time I have to do a thread split, because to be honest it's a PITA to split a thread. And I may just be wanting to get it taken care of as quickly as possible.

  9. #9
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    Lightbulb ignor
    Is there a way to put an entire thread on my ignor list?

  10. #10
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thanks Ms B as we know what happened to the no-value add feed spam. I also remember the old IBM and Wang days where managers sent us mailed notices we'd get fired if calling on accounts not able to do a minimum of $500,000 in equipment sales/yr. My guess is Overstock has the same policy in place as far as their 6 AM's time goes. If an affiliate isn't on Molander's list, not spending $5000 per month on PPCSE, isn't in the 1st tier hawking sales with coupons via mass e-mail and SEM campaigns, then ignor them on your daily sales calls. Side job for OS affiliate managers is email marketing flyers and managing company SEM through keyword Ads. Cheerleading to the troops at ABW is optional ...and only valid for the team leader using company cue cards.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  11. #11
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    "Flamingo World (see RevNews) and Fatwallet are yelling about OS LiveHelp and dropping conversion ratios. "

    Actually if you read it again you'll see Flamingo World bring it up and me responding. And there was no mention of dropping conversion ratios in that thread and Fatwallet wasn't even in it. Read my response and i'll think you'll agree with what i said. Instead i'll just post what i said again:

    "As far as Overstock, i was going thru the process after someone posted about Live Person and at checkout got both a Live Person pop and a Club O pop. An annoyance as a shopper. If a shopper wanted Live Help, they would click on a Live Help button. Popping it just forces it onto the user. I got those pops while checking out and if that pop results in an affiliate not getting paid somehow, then that's parasitic to me. From affiliate traffic, a merchant should have it set up so Live Person doesn't show up. If they can't or just want to use it then they still need to pay the affiliate. Fully."

    So that we agree on. But checking the stats and from the thread i linked to earlier, people are still converting. Start another thread and ask how people are doing this month. So we both agree they should get rid of it. Where i disagree is that you think it's the root cause of your non converting while others are. Because it seems to me you're always blaming someone else for the problems but not once accepting the problems as your own.

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    If LH isn't negating any OS sales, then the other 2 reasons kick in for evaluation. A shopping cart update, coupled with changes to their data mining app, ends up whacking sales reporting on certain type creatives documented here requiring month in and month out rebubittals of the batch reports. Or the possibility of a sneaky insider employee (LS or OS) running a simple script on the batch feed swapping ID#s crediting an outside friends account with sales over a certain amount, from a pool of affiliates. Who would know unless everyone touching the raw info or compiled file gets a regular audit as the totals match? Certainly not me or any other affiliate on any batch merchant. Happens all the time in the banking and investment industry.

    Funny the same challenge to TigerDirect led to the reporting errors and commission leaks being plugged and manually corrected last Nov & Dec to the betterment of all TD affiliates. It touched an internal sensitive nerve too, as TD dropped me for no cause on Jan 9th. 2005. Traffic into my Mall is all natural SERPs and landing page click traffic to my trusted merchants is targeted and focused towards product interest. What more can a merchant ask for a seldom do they have to eat a profit killing coupon?
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  13. #13
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    Do a test purchase or have somebody do what BLFH did for Gordon's site. She did a test purchase. Try to drill down what the problem is. My conversions are fine but i did notice, like i posted above, getting 2 popups at checkout which annoyed the hell out of me. One for Live Help and the other for Club O. If you've been sending them decent traffic and haven't gotten sales the last 3 weeks or so, maybe it's time for a test purchase. I'm sure somebody here will buy something from Overstock this month, maybe they can do one off your site.

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thanks Trustno1 as my personal OS shopping account is probably tagged. I'll see if a few of my clients need a IBM notebook or jewelry over 500.00 to try a LiveHelp purchase and then the regular cart purchase.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    Actually if you read it again you'll see Flamingo World bring it up and me responding. And there was no mention of dropping conversion ratios in that thread and Fatwallet wasn't even in it. Read my response and i'll think you'll agree with what i said. Instead i'll just post what i said again:

    "As far as Overstock, i was going thru the process after someone posted about Live Person and at checkout got both a Live Person pop and a Club O pop. An annoyance as a shopper. If a shopper wanted Live Help, they would click on a Live Help button. Popping it just forces it onto the user. I got those pops while checking out and if that pop results in an affiliate not getting paid somehow, then that's parasitic to me. From affiliate traffic, a merchant should have it set up so Live Person doesn't show up. If they can't or just want to use it then they still need to pay the affiliate. Fully."

    So that we agree on. But checking the stats and from the thread i linked to earlier, people are still converting. Start another thread and ask how people are doing this month. So we both agree they should get rid of it. Where i disagree is that you think it's the root cause of your non converting while others are. Because it seems to me you're always blaming someone else for the problems but not once accepting the problems as your own.
    I don't know if I'm the one being referred to, but I did complain recently about the nonclosable LiveHelp popup I encountered when clicking on my Overstock link.

    Just because a merchant converts doesn't necessarily mean you're not losing money. You are losing money! remember that in my case, the only way to close the pop-up is to activate LiveHelp. For us who are aware of the consequences, that thing is an annoyance. But for the common consumers, it can come to them as if it's a required procedure in order to buy.

    What you don't know, you won't miss. So if you're converting at say 5%, you won't really miss the rest if you don't know that you're actually converting at 20%.

    I'm assuming that Overstock simply lets transactions go through now and then, to silence critics that they're not converting.

  16. #16
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Not sure if this is "off topic" again, but this whole thread began with me griping about sending thousands of visitors to various merchants with no sales. I'm still pissed off about it. LOL -

    Mike & Charlie ... I stopped promoting OS last year because they were one of the above-referenced 'unproductive' merchants. It seems to me that the bigger the merchant, especially corporate merchants, the less I make with them, or, more precisely, I make nothing, ever. When I replace the big corporate merchant with a smaller, mama papa-type merchant with the same type of product, I see sales come in overnight, so I know my visitors are buying. All I can do is remove the non-performers and replace them, however, I have replaced a few specific merchants and still not seen any conversion for the link. I have a very hard time selling candy on my site, although I send hundreds of thousands of visitors to various candy merchants. So, I try to see what I'M doing wrong, although the link they're clicking says "candy" so one would expect to be lead to candy when clicking on it, huh? No clue ... I'd just love to be able to convert some of that traffic to sales, especially if my visitors are actually trying to BUY candy (or, in fact, ARE buying it).

    I've griped in here and on other boards about this for a few years. I think it would be a great service if AWB members put together a list of their best-performing merchants, categorized by type of product. I would certainly add my two cents to the equation to help other web masters find a good merchant for a specific product. If anyone wants to ask me about my best producing merchants, I'd be happy to share my experiences. For instance, if a publisher is looking for a good candy merchant that actually converts, that unbiased, affiliate recommended information would be found on AWB.

    Sound like a good plan?
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexanne
    Sound like a good plan?
    Uh....no.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  18. #18
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    Thumbs down >put together a list of their best-performing merchants
    SURE, that is going to happen...

  19. #19
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexanne
    I stopped promoting OS last year because they were one of the above-referenced 'unproductive' merchants.
    Rexanne, if you're having problems promoting Overstock.com, you're doing something wrong (and so is Mike). Just look around. There are people here who have conversion ratios with them between 3% and 10%. If the problem was with Overstock, nobody would be seeing good conversions.
    Michael Coley
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  20. #20
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Rexanne, if you're having problems promoting Overstock.com, you're doing something wrong (and so is Mike). Just look around. There are people here who have conversion ratios with them between 3% and 10%. If the problem was with Overstock, nobody would be seeing good conversions.


    This is good to think about. Thanks for the "wake up slap." I don't promote
    OS, in general. My site works differently than most and maybe OS doesn't fit
    my market. It's a lot of other merchants who I have a non-performing issue
    with, more than OS. I just feel the pain of other publishers who are seeing
    no sales after thousands of clicks. OS seemed like a good idea last year
    when I first promoted them but the results were very poor for me. I did not
    promote specific products, just a link to OS in general.

    I would love to know what I'M doing wrong if my visitors aren't buying after
    thousands of click throughs. If it IS my problem, I want to fix it,
    but I've seen too many instances of changing merchants and seeing sales
    happen immediately. Makes me suspicious of the merchants and puts things in
    perspective, however, I guess it's stupid to try to share this information
    with other publishers. I'm not sure what the problem with this thought is,
    but it seems other publishers are afraid they'll lose out if other pubs
    promote the merchants they are successful with. So fine ... I'll still
    happily share my experiences as I do with other web masters in my niche
    market.

    Thanks for offering your insight, Michael. It's always valuable.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Till Overstock resolves their inability to close links to specific products, or product categories, it looks like we ABWers should just sell their coupons to our shoppers. I could pull all the GoldenCan feed speciality pages and whack at least 20,000 words and hundred's of hand made product links to them to steamline my page loads.
    Last edited by ecomcity; July 15th, 2005 at 12:45 PM.
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  22. #22
    Not Verif-Lidated infoTim's Avatar
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    I don't have any conversion problems with OS. Maybe it depends on your traffic, i.e. people who are curious vs. people who want to buy vs. people who are looking for coupons to steal ecomcity's commish.
    Tim
    consultant by day, affiliate by night

  23. #23
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    I think the OS conversion problem is a result of the "broken merchandise in a box" syndrom.

    I was in a meeting of technophiles in Salt Lake City, every single person in the room had a story of receiving broken merchandise from OS. The last several items I've purchased from OS were broken, or broke within the first few months from purchase.

    If you have recurring traffic, they will stop buying at OS when they realize that OS doesn't bother doing any quality checking on its refurbished products, but you have basically random traffic that hasn't learned that OS doesn't bother quality control of its merchandise, then you will have high conversion rates based on the low prices.

    So, Mike, my guess is that you have a dedicated audience that clicks on OS links. They remember the boxes of broken things that they got from OS...the go elsewhere.

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yintercept
    I think the OS conversion problem is a result of the "broken merchandise in a box" syndrom.

    I was in a meeting of technophiles in Salt Lake City, every single person in the room had a story of receiving broken merchandise from OS. The last several items I've purchased from OS were broken, or broke within the first few months from purchase.

    If you have recurring traffic, they will stop buying at OS when they realize that OS doesn't bother doing any quality checking on its refurbished products, but you have basically random traffic that hasn't learned that OS doesn't bother quality control of its merchandise, then you will have high conversion rates based on the low prices.

    So, Mike, my guess is that you have a dedicated audience that clicks on OS links. They remember the boxes of broken things that they got from OS...the go elsewhere.
    A steady 18% of my traffic is from bookmarks.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  25. #25
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    Rexanne, another problem maybe the candy. I have some nice traffic for that, and it's not the best converting category.

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