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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Pagan merchants have a problem with profit!
    It seems going up the food chain is not a skill many Pagans have. I have busted my butt trying to interest Pagans to come out of their little hole in the wall stores and become affiliate merchants but they won't. They think it is not nice to raise their prices to what the market will bear so they can pay affilates. They think that would be "overcharging" the customer. I have tried every persuasion I can think of but they just think it is wrong to charge the customer more so someone else can make a living selling their products for them. They think affiliate marketers are "greedy" because they want to add to the end price in the form of their commissions.

    They also seem to bulk at making a profit for themselves. If they pay their hosting, they seem to think that is enough. They want to be nice and not have any turned away because they can't afford something so they keep their prices as low as they can.

    What's a mother to do?

    If I had all kinds of money, i would buy up the under priced goods and resale them at a mark up, myself. But, that is not an option currently.

    (Disclaimer: There, of course are exceptions. This is based on feedback I have received. I think the exceptions are pretty rare.)
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  2. #2
    Affiliate Manager PaulS's Avatar
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    Have you tried the "spread the word" approach? Not focussing on profits as much as being able to "reach out and help so many more people...."

    My guess is, if they are in "hole in the wall" stores, then profit is not their main objective. If you can find a reason why working with you would be beneficial to OTHERS, you might stand a good shot.

    Also, if their prices are low enough, could you - possibly - use your own cart to generate the online orders, then feed those orders to the supplier off-line, more "drop ship" than affiliate? That way, they don't have to charge more on their main site in order to develop an affiliate program.

    Just some random thoughts, don't know if they'll help.

    Paul

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager PaulS's Avatar
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    Never mind the "own cart" comment, I just read your other post.

    Paul

  4. #4
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulS
    Have you tried the "spread the word" approach? Not focussing on profits as much as being able to "reach out and help so many more people...."

    My guess is, if they are in "hole in the wall" stores, then profit is not their main objective. If you can find a reason why working with you would be beneficial to OTHERS, you might stand a good shot.

    Also, if their prices are low enough, could you - possibly - use your own cart to generate the online orders, then feed those orders to the supplier off-line, more "drop ship" than affiliate? That way, they don't have to charge more on their main site in order to develop an affiliate program.

    Just some random thoughts, don't know if they'll help.

    Paul
    Thanks, Paul. I am trying to interest some in that very thing but they really don't like me adding to their price to pay myself. They would rather not sale the goods, it seems. I am going to keep trying.

    Pagans are creative to the nth degree and there are some remarkable items available. But, with no affiliates, the only ones who ever see their stores are each other. They just interlink with each other and create a very closed circle of prospective buyers.

    The actual successful stores that you can find in search don't even trade links with anyone, for the most part.

    That would be like Wal-Mart trading links.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  5. #5
    Plazan Merchant Neil's Avatar
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    can you source these products,
    and get wholesale prices ?.
    or is that not an option.
    Find us at shareasale.com 12% commission
    Shareasale Merchant 7191
    PLAZAN SKIN CARE As seen on TV . Used by Jennifer Lopez

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    SSanf:

    I can tell you that a lot of non-Pagan, mom & pop merchants have actually stayed away from Internet advertising & marketing because they are afraid that it will generate too much business! I had a good discussion with the owner of a great business near me and he said he's constantly getting calls from people outside the area wanting him to ship his products. "But that's a lot of extra work," he said. My combination MBA/AM kicked in and I started rattling off a number of models that could produce significant revenue rather quickly and turn the whole idea into a profit center.

    He shrugged and said, "yeah, but it still sounds like a lot of extra work."

    Auuuugggghhhh!!!

    So you are not alone in your frustration here!

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yes, that is a legitimate concern. And, I understand the fear of too much business and either not being able to produce or being forced to make major life changes to do it. Still I think that is something that could be addressed. Other merchants add and delete items all the time.

    Yeah, I think they may just not want to do the work. Hold down some stupid job as a wage slave instead. Or, keep their spouse in the harness all the while sitting on a gold mine.

    And, the excuse is, "Oh, we don't want to over charge. We're too nice!" But, they send hubby of to some stupid dead end job he probably hates every day instead of making the most of their tallent and skills. How nice is that?

    Some people just want a pay check.

    Well, maybe I am wrong. Maybe, it isn't that way.

    I need to vent.

    I guess, I just want to sell some of that stuff. That is what I do. I sell stuff.
    Last edited by SSanf; July 19th, 2005 at 01:30 PM.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  8. #8
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Sandra,

    Can you definite a "Pagan merchant" for me? What are they?

    Geno

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Paul_Ward's Avatar
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    Pagan merchants have a problem with profit!

    Ungodly lot.


  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, Paganism is an umbrella term for people who follow the earth centered religions such as Wicca. Some define them as any religion not originating with Abraham.

    A Pagan merchant would be one who sells items that are generally used and sought after by Pagans in either their religious practices or in their daily living. Since Pagans are a little different in their daily living, there are some products more relevant to the Pagan life style than other products. For instance, gardening products for Pagans = good. Gas guzzling cars for Pagans = bad. T-shirts with animal familiars = good. T-shirts with "My Country, right or wrong!" = bad.

    Also, I would consider people who follow any of the Pagan paths and who make or create products specifically for the Pagan market such as greeting cards celebrating Pagan sabots (holidays) a Pagan merchant.

    No doubt, you are wondering if any of your products are Pagan relevant. Yes, some are and they will be added in the site updates. I already have a few of your products on one site.

    I want to add when I say "Pagan life style", we fit in pretty well. It takes one to know one.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    They also seem to balk at making a profit for themselves. If they pay their hosting, they seem to think that is enough. They want to be nice and not have any turned away because they can't afford something so they keep their prices as low as they can.
    Phooey, their excuses sound like the old po-boy mentality all wrapped up in gift wrap.

    Personally when I see anti-business socialist types (what religion they are is irrelevant) who won't get a clue, I get a huge urge to drive the clue train over them myself!

    What's a mother to do?
    Become a merchant, SEO like mad, and drive the "competition" to the bottom of the engines. Make YourStore THE ONE people remember...the ONLY REAL Pagan-oriented outlet run in a professional way! Buyers like Real merchants, where they can feel secure about letting out their CC for a walk. From the sounds of those people's attitudes, their sites would leave an impression far from comforting...and it probably wouldn't be much work at all to kick their butts all over the Arena, provided they don't have some extreme customer-loyalty going on.

    Sounds like a wide-open market...

    Yeah, I think they may just not want to do the work. Hold down some stupid job as a wage slave instead. Or, keep their spouse in the harness all the while sitting on a gold mine.

    And, the excuse is, "Oh, we don't want to over charge. We're too nice!" But, they send hubby of to some stupid dead end job he probably hates every day instead of making the most of their tallent and skills. How nice is that?
    It's not nice at all! And if they're going to work themselves rather than selling at a decent profit, they've got a sick po-boy complex, or maybe a martyr complex. Either way, it's sick & disgusting; I try to stay away from those anti-money types because they always try to spread the contagion.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  12. #12
    Affiliate/AM Moonlighter dflsports's Avatar
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    If you can make a ton of money selling these goods, only makes sense for you to sell the goods yourself. This way you can do all the work and keep all the profit.

  13. #13
    Magickal Mistress kraftseye's Avatar
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    SSanf, I also have a wiccan site and have found a few (very few) items that fall into the pagan catagory. There is a "new age" link on one of my affs sites, usless stuff imo, dig a little more. There are some out there. Just don't give up.

    Maybe I should come up with a product or two myself and market them.

  14. #14
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    They DO have the po boy complex, big time. When I have tried to point it out that they are anti-success, they proclaim, "Oh, but we define success differently. We aren't driven by greed and money."

    Bullroar!! Then, they complain that the landlord is mean. And, oh dear. What to do. Yeah. Right!!

    But, they deep down ARE very loving, affectionate and giving people. They really are. They have hearts as good as gold and great big social consciences. And, talent flowing out their yim yams. They are usually smart with better than average educations and hold down low paying jobs.

    Drives me nuts.

    Did you ever wonder where the hippies and the flower children went? They NEVER DID sell out to the establishment. They found religion. They all became Pagans! And, we have raised our children as Pagans, too. And, of course, the children of many non-hippies and flower children joined our ranks on account of because we are so darned exotic and all. That's why there are so many Pagans, now.

    Of course, it does have a tad bit to do with the fact that our religion is pretty darned good, too.

    However, I need to add, we are starting to see more Pagans in the professions. My own daughter is an engineer and doing well.

    I am usually the hard ass in the group.
    Last edited by SSanf; July 19th, 2005 at 11:53 PM.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    In another thread, I sort of hinted that I think I have made a connection that will solve my merchandise problems. I think this is a good 'un. Should be able to start making links or adjusting a feed to make links in two or three days.

    Boy, that will be a relief.

    Tell you what. I think Azuregreen needs some competition, big time!

    They seem to always be chasing their tail!

    Do you know that their latest, so I have been told, is that they are requiring the dropshippers who are the only ones that have affiliate programs with their products, now, that they must have only $50 or more minimum orders? So, I would have to tell everyone that they must order at least $50 from my site even if they only want to buy a $10 item!!

    Way to help sales! Total craziness.
    Last edited by SSanf; July 20th, 2005 at 12:16 AM.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  16. #16
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    Well, Paganism is an umbrella term for people who follow the earth centered religions such as Wicca. Some define them as any religion not originating with Abraham...
    Okay. I understand now. It is what I though it is...

    Thanks for your clarification, Sandra.

    Geno

  17. #17
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    assuming they have sites already, pick 2 of the newer merchants that show any signs of growth and send them some free traffic for a few weeks - commission free. perhaps showing them what you can do will show them it's worth the initial investment. once you get one or two doing it, the others will feel more comfortable with it.

  18. #18
    Affiliate Manager PaulS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    Do you know that their latest, so I have been told, is that they are requiring the dropshippers who are the only ones that have affiliate programs with their products, now, that they must have only $50 or more minimum orders? So, I would have to tell everyone that they must order at least $50 from my site even if they only want to buy a $10 item!!

    Way to help sales! Total craziness.

    You've got to love the really stupid people... no-one else will.



    Paul

  19. #19
    Full Member ADesertRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    Yes, that is a legitimate concern. And, I understand the fear of too much business and either not being able to produce or being forced to make major life changes to do it.
    Oh, I wish I had such problems as so much business I'd have to hire employees or something!

    A nice injection of traffic from you could change some minds...it would certainly weed out any who couldn't alter their way of doing business by scaring the crap out of them too!

    It's a pity so many devalue their own work.

  20. #20
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Donuts, I am just waiting ofr the new data feed that is being created for me and my buds. Then, I have a ton of sites to change. Kind of chilling and procastinating on a chore I don't want to do until then.

    After that, I will certainly think about your idea.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  21. #21
    Red face Pagan / Wiccan / New Age Profit is Good :)
    Hi there.

    We're a merchant who is brand new to affiliate marketing. A lot of our products appeal to the 'alternative religion' & spiritual set. We built plenty of margin into our products to be able to pay for marketing, promotions, and be able to do customer discounts once in a while without breaking the bank. We go by the "As ye harm none, do as thou wilt." creed. I can't think of anything more gratifying than getting good scents to people who want them, and paying everyone involved a good living for their effort. It's a karmic balance thing.

    Blessed be,

    Lisette

    PS If you're interested in our program, you can find our SaS information under the new programs announcements: Aromatherapy & Massage

  22. #22
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Sandra: I was curious about this comment in regards to Paganism:
    T-shirts with "My Country, right or wrong!" = bad.
    I've read quite a bit about Paganism, and have been to many Wiccan shops online and off, but I don't see the connection there... Fill me in please...

    BTW, I don't consider myself a Pagan, but rather a consumer, and I look at all kinds of items for their aesthetic value...

    Also, sorry if this starts a discussin in the realm of hijacking... I see your point too on being a frustrated affiliate in a category you hold dear... Believe me I do...
    Last edited by Noth; February 2nd, 2006 at 09:32 PM. Reason: Back Button Dumbosity
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  23. #23
    Devil's Reject Electropulse's Avatar
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    hmmm, trying to capitalize on paganism, tsk, tsk, tsk,...maybe when you talk to these merchants, they see right through you.

  24. #24
    Thumbs up
    I've never seen a conflict between capitalism and paganism. The only time it's an issue is when you're either taking something by force, or by deceit. When it's a willing exchange of value for value, that fits into the holistic model of the world very well. There are issues when you withhold vital services or supplies in order to drive the price up, but when you're engaged in honest commerce, everybody gets what they want, and everyone goes home happy. Sounds like an ideal situation to me.

    - Bill
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    is a good thing.

  25. #25
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    The only time it's an issue is when you're either taking something by force, or by deceit.
    I guess that answers my question.
    Kevin Webster
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