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  1. #1
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Why is CJ still doing business with banned 180Solutions
    Seems CJ is still enriching themselves, using intermediaries, to profit off of 180Solutions/Exact Advertising popups overwriting CJ affiliate cookies with no regard to the CofC.
    http://www.benedelman.org/news/052305-1.html

    180solutions' design (and others like it) wreaks havoc on this simple enforcement model. Many of 180's ads are placed by 180 advertisers, acting in their own names, in general without disclosing that the resulting traffic will be shown in 180solutions pop-ups. For example, Top3offers.com pays 180solutions to show Top3offers URLs when users visit certain keywords pertaining to online dating. Top3offers then sends such traffic to Yahoo Personals via a Commission Junction tracking link, ultimately receiving payments for leads or signups. Yahoo and CJ did not request that Top3offers take any such action -- and if they search their advertiser databases for 180solutions, they won't find a match, because the underlying account is in the name of Top3offers, not 180. And of course Top3offers is just one of hundreds -- thousands? -- of middle-men using similar methods. (See e.g. ten specific examples I posted in detail last year -- complete with packet logs, videos, etc.)

    So it's insufficient for ad intermediaries to merely search their databases for the names of known wrongdoers. Rather, rigorous enforcement requires examining actions, not just names. Savvy intermediaries need an enforcement system that monitors ads at trouble spots like 180solutions, that flags suspect ads shown there, and that does not naively assume that bad actors will be truthful in their statements to ad intermediaries. Conveniently, that's precisely how my ad-tracking robot works -- that's precisely how I generated the table above.

    This CJ/Top3offers example is just one of many, and of course facts vary across types of ad intermediaries. Because affiliate networks like Commission Junction generally pay commissions only when users make purchases, they tend to be particularly indiscriminate as to who can place such links and earn such commissions -- operating under the mistaken assumption that if a user made a purchase, the traffic must have been legitimate. (They ignore the risk that the ad was improperly shown to the user, without appropriate prior consent.) Indeed, despite CJ having ended its direct relationship with 180, 180's advertisers (the "independent intermediaries" in the diagram above) continue to run CJ links -- apparently in the expectation of continuing to receive payment, i.e. because CJ won't catch them. If CJ can't identify and block this traffic, then CJ still earns its commissions on such traffic -- so paradoxically CJ still profits from the activities of 180 and its advertisers."

    http://www.benedelman.org/news/052305-1.html
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  2. #2
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    180 sold the software to many. so those found using it should be reported.

  3. #3
    Full Member affiliate4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herb ԿԬ
    180 sold the software to many. so those found using it should be reported.


    hmmm.... Now just guess whose job should that be???

  4. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by affiliate4all
    hmmm.... Now just guess whose job should that be???
    we've heard reports of a few being outed.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Because 20,000 members of this forum do nothing about it but complain..

  6. #6
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Because 20,000 members of this forum do nothing about it but complain..
    (Like the old song says....)

    Siempre que me pregunto, que como, cuando y donde? - (Everytime I ask myself... how to, when and where?)
    Tu siempre me respondes... (You [CJ] always reply.)
    Quizs, quizs, quizs...... (Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.)

    Y as pasan los das y yo, desesperando, (and Im getting desperate as the days go by.)
    y tu, tu contestando Quizs, quizs, quizs... Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

    Estoy perdiendo el tiempo, pensando, pensando ... (I'm wasting my time thinking, thinking.)

    ---------------------------

    But also........

    For the same reason that the Drug Companies don't want the general people, to know about how they can cure themselves of many ailment's with just natural products!

    .........................


    ...

  7. #7
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Ben is describing how other publishers (or affiliates) have bought advertising via 180 Solutions using affiliate tracking links. To the untrained eye, it appears that 180 is acting as a publisher but in fact it is other publishers violating the CoC. We monitor for and forbid this practice. You may recall our recent notice forbidding publisher from buying advertising via other networks (which would include 180 Solutions).
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

    Give me a minute before I post again

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Todd the CoC, and changes to the CJ network TOS, was supposed to eliminate sheister affiliates from raping your merchants budgets and washing legit affiliate's commission cookies. The noble effort to accomplish this is to recognize the big money players who drive brinks trucks through the compliance teams blind spots and network loop holes. Ben's an amateur, without the insider knowledge you possess, yet he pin points those who exploit shoppers systems and diss your network rules with impunity.

    I see the likes of WhenU's www.pricebandit.com openly conducting business as usual, not even trying to operate under the rules as a known TOS violator and banned enity. Someone other then ABWers need to protect your merchants from the cookie cannon operators including 180Solutions. Take the your rules seriously and publically OUT the buggers as they deserve no privacy protections.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  9. #9
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    CJ won't take action against a heavy hitter like WhenU. They rather have Todd put up with disgruntal affiliate on a forum. Then give up the tens of thousands they make from buggers like them.

  10. #10
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    It makes one wonder if money is changing hands.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddCrawford
    ... but in fact it is other publishers violating the CoC. We monitor for and forbid this practice. You may recall our recent notice forbidding publisher from buying advertising via other networks (which would include 180 Solutions).
    Todd, would you be able to say how many publishers have been booted to date for violating the CoC since the recent notice was posted?

    Knowing that active enforcement is occuring would be encouraging.

  12. #12
    Full Member affiliate4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinT
    Todd, would you be able to say how many publishers have been booted to date for violating the CoC since the recent notice was posted?

    Knowing that active enforcement is occuring would be encouraging.

    I bet Todd won't reveal that. It'll surely conflict with the network's privacy policy!!

  13. #13
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by affiliate4all
    I bet Todd won't reveal that. It'll surely conflict with the network's privacy policy!!
    It certainly wouldn't conflict with my earned income policy . . .

  14. #14
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddCrawford
    You may recall our recent notice forbidding publisher from buying advertising via other networks (which would include 180 Solutions).
    Todd - would you please post it here again for those that may not recall.

  15. #15
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Todd - would you please post it here again for those that may not recall.
    If you log into your account, click on CJU Online and then on Latest News - it is the second link on the right under "Client Policies".
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

    Give me a minute before I post again

  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    For me, it was the 3rd link down that looked to be the right one... the second link was email compliance rules. The 3rd one down was called "June 1, 2005 Network Quality Announcement" and said:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    NETWORK QUALITY ANNOUNCEMENT

    The ability for advertisers, publishers and Commission Junction to understand each others' activity is an important aspect of the CJ Marketplace. We openly display information within the CJ Account Manager - EPC, Network Earnings Ratings and program descriptions - so that you can make informed decisions about which affiliations and traffic-driving methods are best suited to your program.

    In order to sustain this open marketplace of information, Commission Junction will no longer allow special programs engaged in the purchase of media from ad services that download and install software on an end-user's computer. For special programs currently engaged in such practices, Commission Junction requests that you immediately discontinue such practices. We will continue to monitor such programs to insure that special descriptions are properly updated.

    As described in the Commission Junction Publisher Service Agreement (PSA), publishers who distribute ads using third-party services and/or place links on Web sites, not owned or operated by the publisher, must be disclosed as a special program. Special programs require both Commission Junction and advertiser approval, and Commission Junction reserves the right to reject a special program at any time.

    Thank you for your cooperation with this policy. We believe it facilitates the trust and openness that you have come to expect from Commission Junction. If you have any questions in regards to special programs or whether or not your partnership with a specific ad service is allowed under this policy, please contact client services by using the "Ask a Question" feature in your CJ Account Manager.


    Regards,

    Terance Kinsky
    Director Network Quality
    Commission Junction, a ValueClick company


    Published June 1, 2005
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Is this the "recent notice forbidding publisher from buying advertising via other networks" you were referring to?

  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Wow! ..."In order to sustain this open marketplace of information, Commission Junction will no longer allow special programs engaged in the purchase of media from ad services that download and install software on an end-user's computer. For special programs currently engaged in such practices, Commission Junction requests that you immediately discontinue such practices. We will continue to monitor such programs to insure that special descriptions are properly updated.

    As described in the Commission Junction Publisher Service Agreement (PSA), publishers who distribute ads using third-party services and/or place links on Web sites, not owned or operated by the publisher, must be disclosed as a special program. Special programs require both Commission Junction and advertiser approval, and Commission Junction reserves the right to reject a special program at any time."

    Obviously the CJ network quality bot has the ability to map out all the offenders of the PSA and CoC. So therefore those buying tickets to ride on the 180Solutions theftware train are in violation. Therefore all the merchants listed at www.pricebandit.com ,and this affiliate enity, have expressly approved each other to set CJ cookies with CJ's blessings. Seems like some merchants are spinning us as to their involvement in theftware affiliates. They have to approve the relationship in writing.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

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