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  1. #1
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    ok - I may be very wrong here - but I still am concerned that the 'every 4th sale' thing means a cookie is reset on the end users computer....

  2. #2
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgrcentral
    ok - I may be very wrong here - but I still am concerned that the 'every 4th sale' thing means a cookie is reset on the end users computer....
    It's not every 4th sale - see post #6 here:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...38&postcount=6

    From what I've reviewed, post #6 is accurately describing what you're concerned about - and in my opinion, you shouldn't worry.

    You should wonder if your biz model supports the link sharing you'll be doing with GoldenCAN from an ROI perspective, but everything here is above board and proper in my view.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    I've had some fun experimenting with GoldenCan. So far no sales, so I can't really evaluate it properly, but I do think it has merits if used in a high content site. Trying to set it up as a stand alone site like I have done will probably never work well because of the SE invisablity. I do have to say it has been fun to work with (I love something new) and support has been wonderful. It will be curious to see what success everyone has a year from now.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  4. #4
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    I guess it works for some people - for me as a programmer its relagated to the same level as all javascript solutions - does nothing for my sites except would add to the load time...

    asp.net rewls

  5. #5
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    "So what if he gets 25% of the clicks? Don't you think he deserves at least that much considering that he is giving it away for FREE? "

    25% = Free. hmm I've used shared link before with Amazon where they took 10% and there wasn't a link out to the application. The goal is to get more affiliates/merchants into GoldenCan. I don't have a problem recommending this to merchants and getting them on board but like i said 25% is a nice chunk, that's enough. In the long run GoldenCan will make more money by taking it out.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador thecool's Avatar
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    I can see the flames coming, but I must state that I see the over writing of every 4th click as parasitic. I could change my mind if someone could explain why it isn't. True giving up only 1/4th is better than 100% as with the more popular parasites. How will only 1 in 4 be verifiable. Who can prove that it won't be 4 out of 5? If I have missed something in these threads that resolve this issue, please point me in the right direction.

    Gene
    TCS

  7. #7
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    A parasite overwrites links without the webmaster's permission and with no compensation. GoldenCAN overwrites a percentage of links with the webmaster's permission, as compensation for the service provided. It's in no way parasitic. I'm not saying it's a good idea. I agree with those who say 25% is too much.

    I considered a similar model once, but decided against it because I didn't think there would be much acceptance of click-sharing. With the model I considered, affiliates would be sharing coupons and promotions. 90% of clicks would have gone to the traffic provider. 9% of clicks would have gone to the first affiliate who provided the coupon. 1% of clicks would have gone to the network (me). I'm not sure that would have been enough to support the network costs, but I don't see why it wouldn't have been.
    Michael Coley
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  8. #8
    Not Verif-Lidated infoTim's Avatar
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    Golden Can is a symbiotic parasite. :-)
    Tim
    consultant by day, affiliate by night

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador thecool's Avatar
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    Simply because GC is not infecting users PCs with flyby downloads of their software does not relieve them of the definition of a parasite. You are actually facilitating this parasitic action by placing the code on your site. You have invited the parasite into your realm. You have absolutely no guarantee that this invited parasite will only overwrite 1 in 4 clicks. As mentioned before, 4 of 5 clicks could be overwritten and you would not know the difference. Why any merchant or affiliate would rush to embrace GC without some solid guarantees in place is beyond me. I see some merchants are joining without the 4th click. This is similar to the coupons only approach with the other parasites. Again, there are no guarantees that this will not result in overwrites at will. This new approach is being condoned in the same manner as continuing to work with merchants that work with known parasites. Here you know in advance that at least 1 in 4 clicks will be overwritten. With the other parasites all or none of your clicks will be overwritten depending on whether the user has parasitic software on his or her PC. Symbiotic parasite may be a very appropriate name.

    Rather than give me opinions, give me proof that this is not parasitic. Overwriting cookies is parasitic with or without ones permission. This is just a clever means of getting around the parasitic software mentioned in the networks and the merchants TOS.

    Gene
    TOS

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    You have absolutely no guarantee that this invited parasite will only overwrite 1 in 4 clicks. As mentioned before, 4 of 5 clicks could be overwritten and you would not know the difference.
    True ... but then again this entire industry is based on trust. Trusted third parties, trusting that merchants actually keep the tracking code on confirmation pages, trusting that batch merchants don't cut a bit offr the top, trusting that your host won't be down when someone goes to the site or even your PPC engine for not robbing you. That is why communication, and specifically open communication is not only needed it's crucial and posts like this only help in the edification and clarification of offerings. The best way to get your own comfort level with the product (if your going to use it) is to call Asif, talk to him, I mean your going to be partners, talk to him get your comfort level and implement. I have spoken many, many times with Asif and as you can see, I trust him as do many others. Try it you'll like it.

    Rather than give me opinions, give me proof that this is not parasitic.
    Ok I will in my folow up post, but first ... you have to tell me in at least five sentences what GoldenCan really does, and all of the different aspects it covers. Then and only then can I prove it's waranted and justified as a 4th click model.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  11. #11
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    While personally I believe that the 25% rake is a bit over the top, the line of reasoning that is used to call it "parasitic", if taken to it's logical conclusion, can be used to call the affiliate parasitic as well.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador thecool's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    I won't be put on the spot to create justification for what you say will be proof or justification of GC existence.

    After further study of what little information is supplied by GC, I can see that it is little more than DPSC which is being paid for by the 1 in 4 clicks rather than being licensed and paid for by the merchant. Their claim that millions of products can be displayed with just one line of code is rediculous. You need a store created for each merchant that you are joined with. Each of these stores is a single line of code. 200 merchants, that is 200 lines of code. I do that now with select merchants by using the DPSC. It is free to me, but there is an expense to the merchant. GC is offering this approach to marketing for free on a limited time basis. On their web page, is the implication that sometime in the future they may require a setup fee as well as a monthly fee in addition to the 1 in 4 click compensation.

    They claim that the shared link is a way to offer this service at no cost. I would say that 25% of my traffic is a pretty steep cost.

    I certainly don't mean to be argumentive. I simply cannot see where this service is anything but parasitic to affiliates.

    Gene
    TCS

  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager dculpepper's Avatar
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    You can also create stores that include multiple merchants so you can in fact display millions of products with a single line of code.
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  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Gene,

    I wasn't trying to "put [you] on the spot", I was hoping that you'd delve into GC and realize what was there. Oh well.

    Here I'll give you the skinny ... 1. Besides taking the feeds from merchants and compiling them into a single line of code implementation (I'll touch base on that later) they also spider the merchant's sites to get the real and up to date price, products (in stock vs. outr of stock) . They also compile all of the coupons for each merchant as well as every price drop on an item for the merchants. What does this all mean to you the affiliate?

    1. You have a real up to date site with instock products at the right prices.
    2. You have all the coupons for each merchant that you are partnered with - you can now add coupons to your merchant or product page listings (that are up todate and valid without manually doing it your self).
    3. You have price drop alerts for the products of each merchant so that you can create a new section for the merchants - Price drops / Sale items easilly and accurately.
    4. A searchable database of all your affiliated merchants products for a better offering - you let the user select between thousands of products instead of the one he / she landed on - kinda like the amazon phenomenon - send a buyer to amazon for one product and they usually end up buying more than that one item.
    5. Price comparisons - now because of the multiple feeds and spidering GC can offer your visitors a price comparison section to allow for savings on the particular product, so if OSTK has the book and so does AMZN wouldn't they buy it at OSTK if it's cheaper? of course, so now they can see the savings and comparitive shop.
    6. There are a few other things GC can do but I'll leave it at this for now.

    Bottom line here is the value and added services GC implementation offers your end users is why GC isn't parasitic, it's a tool just like the DPSC, but on steriods ... DPSC just shows products, shit it should be free. GoldenCaqn however, allows us the affiliate to manipulate and present the feeds of multiple merchants in a way to get conversions, not just show pictures.

    For all this added functionality, Asif does have to pay costs and needs to be renumerated, either by the smart merchants who have gone free fourth click (by paying) or by the 25% click model, the technology and man hours behind starting and running GC stuff ain't free, imagine just the bandwidth to spider and serve all these pages! So even though I can agree that the 25% click may be a bit high, I am actively recruiting merchants to pay so that affiliates get all the clicks / slaes and many aren't even thinking about it - they are doing it because of the fact that they do indeed see the value add, not just for affiiliates but for consumers and the entire shopping experience.

    Ok now to the one line of code stuff ... All you as the affiliate have to do is cut and paste one line of Javascript code into your site template and boom, there it is. Asif has created a control panel which is being improved day after day where by you can further customize how and what will be displayed but on your site, it's only one line of code.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador thecool's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    Thanks for the information. I can see where if GC is implemented with no 4th click the stigma of parasite would be removed. I also know that Asif would need compensation for the cost of providing this service. I, also, am aware that many of the claims can not be met on an instanteous basis as inplied. It is impossible to maintain an exact up to the minute freshness of the data no matter how many spiders are employed. I would not be doing justice to my merchants if I put them in a face to face confrontation with each other for pricing. Yes, I know that is business and that business is a dog eat dog world.

    I will just have to try it with the no 4th click merchants and see exactly how it works. You could be right. At least I know you believe in the service.

    Again, thank you.

    Gene
    TCS

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    It is impossible to maintain an exact up to the minute freshness of the data no matter how many spiders are employed.
    True, but I can assure you that the information would be much more current than a merchant supplied and uploaded via LS offering. That's for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    I would not be doing justice to my merchants if I put them in a face to face confrontation with each other for pricing.
    Your right!!! Who knows what LS charges to start the DPSC, forget about monthly costs and adserving ... you think Asif is charging anywhere near that? NOt even close ... why do you think LS is unresponsive in giving GC the green light? ....

    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    Yes, I know that is business and that business is a dog eat dog world.
    There you have it ... she only thing is that I'm not going to allow the dog to bite Asif because GoldenCan is that good of an tool and I won't let LS's greed stop the implementation of a such a good tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    I will just have to try it with the no 4th click merchants and see exactly how it works.
    There ya go, value add my friend value add!

    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    At least I know you believe in the service.
    ... and Asif also.

    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    Again, thank you.
    and thank you for posting this. As I said earlier, it is crucial for open discussions in our marketplace and the only way to seperate the good from the bad is with real open discussions about the good and the bad, so that we can make educated decisions in our businesses.

    Continued Success,
    Last edited by Kellie aka Ms. B; August 21st, 2005 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Fixed Quote Formatting
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  17. #17
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecool
    Simply because GC is not infecting users PCs with flyby downloads of their software does not relieve them of the definition of a parasite.
    Perhaps you should define a parasite, so we can understand why you think GC is parasitic.
    Michael Coley
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  18. #18
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    It's not parasitic. Saying so doesn't make any sense.

  19. #19
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    It is every 4th click not every 4th sales. There is nothing that says the 4th click will be a sale.. or it could be the biggest sale you have all year. But you'll never know so it won't drive you nuts unless pondering that kind of thing keeps you up at night.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  20. #20
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    It isn't parasitic, just seems to be a poor choice imo. Want to hit the $10,000 mark? Going to do it with golden can? Would you accept it if someone offered you $30,000 a year to create your own feed system?

    They just did.

    Chet
    ps. But to be honest, I hope you all use it and webmerge, more for the me then.

  21. #21
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    I think with some basic strategy intact both wm and goldencan can be an asset.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

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