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  1. #1
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    Kowabunga + MarketingSherpa = Shawn Collins?!?
    This is very strange. I just received an email from Kowabunga requesting that I participate in an AM survey for Marketing Sherpa.

    The folks at MarketingSherpa are releasing a new study on affiliate marketing and search marketing in September. But first your help is needed -- please click to take a quick (anonymous) 2-minute survey:

    EDIT: SURVEYMONKEY URL REMOVED

    Note: We will send you an executive summary of the results in September at no cost -- the data should be fascinating and useful for your business.

    Thanks in advance for your help in gathering practical data for the affiliate marketing community to grow with.

    Rachel Honoway
    VP of Sales/Marketing
    So I clicked the surveymonkey link to take a look-see. On the first page of the survey there's a link for MarketingSherpa. When I moused over the link I saw the url: affiliatetip.com/marketingsherpa.htm which when clicked redirects to sherpastore.com/store/.

    So would I be correct to assume that Kowabunga is fronting Shawn's survey for him? Would I also be correct to assume that Shawn is getting a commission for sales he sends to the store at Marketing Sherpa? And what exactly is Marketing Sherpa's role in this if it's a Shawn Collins Production?

    Anyhoo, I will not be participating in this survey. Too much smoke and mirrors for my taste.
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; August 12th, 2005 at 03:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    I guess kowabunga will continue to move away from being a legit choice for ethical marketers.

    So much log rolling, your head will fall off trying to keep up with it all.
    http://blog.kowabunga.com/archives/2005/03/

    Real nice that kowabunga is approving a marketing survey from a guy who defended the practice of using data you collect along the way to create lists to sell (that is my opinion).
    Read his own words and you decide what he said, but don't forget - he is also gave a testimonial on the affiliate list site , ""TheAffiliateList takes a good deal of the work and the mystery out of finding and qualifying the best affiliates within the retail sector and beyond. Its a must have weapon in an affiliate managers arsenal." " Of course compare that with his blog post about agenda, and you wonder why he failed to mention he was giving testimonials for the product...

    And if you didn't keep up, this is a list that will not remove people on it, unless you kiss the ass of the list owner enough and then come up a reason "he accepts".

    Of course, the list also begs the question - out of the dark, how would you pull out the names of the top 200 affiliates? You need to get the money data from somewhere.... where?

    This is how corrupt this industry is. This is why i will never attend an affiliate event. Any industry that props up Shawn Collins to be a respected leaders - deserves to live in the world of crap that is today's affiliate marketing. Shame on Kowabunga for helping shawn collect his data like this.

    Chet

  3. #3
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    Oh, and for those not in the know. Watch a bunch of "experts" slam anything said in this thread. Those "experts" like to circle the wagons when one of their own is under attack (which is pretty much constantly). These "experts" are what is killing this industry, because each one of them have the ethics of a nigerian scammer (this is my opinion). So before you believe what any expert says about this thread, search on their name and "shawn collins" or fun words like Cpaempire.com

    Its almost like this industry needs a magazine covering it, that will draw all lines to connect the dots... Oops! Oh yeah... but we all know that will never happen with the one we have now...

    Chet

  4. #4
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    I was checking out some of the stuff from the google link you just posted and this is pretty funny:

    http://www.affiliatetip.com/blog/arc...te_fraud_.html


    "Fraud is time-consuming, expensive and can seriously jeopardize an entire affiliate programs business model. In my role as Director of Marketing for CPAEmpire.com, I am afforded the ability to speak with dozens of affiliate managers and advertisers each week. At some point during almost every conversation, the topic of fraud usually comes up as many of us enjoy sharing the names of the Most Recently Busted.

    The last part, enjoying the names of the "Most Recently Busted" I wonder if they're going to write an article on that blog about the most recently busted CPAEmpire?

  5. #5
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    got the same email. wonder if returning it will put me on the new list they are preparing to sell: "10,000 bottom-feeders for $200?"

  6. #6
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herb ԿԬ
    got the same email. wonder if returning it will put me on the new list they are preparing to sell: "10,000 bottom-feeders for $200?"
    i got the same email... and thought exactly the same thing... but my hypothetical title is... "21,627 dazed affiliates who provide info, to info brokers, for free"

  7. #7
    Internet Cowboy
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    This guy never ceases to amaze me. If an AM can be defined as a parasite, he would be the poster child of this scenario.


  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    It really irritated me, actually. I saw the ad on Revenews (which always picks up Con Shawlin's blog as if it was at Revenews -- another irritation) several days ago. My first reaction was, Hah, Con, See If I Answer Any More Of Your Surveys!

    Then I get this email from KB that names Marketing Sherpa as the source of a survey. So I clicked on the link, and answered the (highly misspelled, highly misphrased, unclear) questions. And the final redirect went back to Con Shawlin's Affiliatetip blog... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH uke:


    I just forwarded the KB email sans my addy and identifiable optout link to MarketingSherpa to ask whether they really are behind it, and if so what the connection is to Con Shawlins, who I don't trust with personally identifiable data.

    I am beginning to take a strong dislike to KB's usage of optinpro with my contact email address. Before, it was a mild dislike.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Ooop, the survey link on Revenews was for an essay for a free t-shirt. And the "exit this survey" which I clicked rather than fill out the form the other day went to Con's blog.

    SurveyMonkey must like Con Shawlin's bananas.

  10. #10
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    What galls me as much as the deceptive way in which Kowabunga presented this survey is the fact that these people continue to think we're stupid and don't check stuff out or share what we know with one another.

    One of the qualities I've often noticed in people who are smart, but not REAL smart, is they consistently underestimate the intelligence of people who really are REALLY smart. And since Shawn and his cronies believe we're all useful idiots they probably figured they could pull the wool over our eyes. The total lack of respect shown to this community by Collins et al is astonishing.

  11. #11
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    I'm disappointed. I have a fondness for Kowabunga, but they are starting to act like Kowabungle...

  12. #12
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    Contact Kowabunga and let them know that this is just plain wrong to let this guy SPAM us using their name!
    http://kowabunga.com/aboutus_contact.asp
    Rachel Honoway
    Rachel@Kowabunga.com
    888-224-6565


  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    KB has spammed me with "recruiting" emails that don't identify themselves as coming from KB. I received multiple copies to my Kolimbo contact address, with the optinpro optout link. I contacted KB about it, since I wanted to know why I was getting emails regarding a domain that wasn't relevent to the merchant at my Kolimbo contact address, and how the merchant got my address.

    KB sent out the recruitment email as a service to their merchant. It took me three emails to get my email addy removed from their recruitment list. Had the email been obviously from KB (like the New Merchant and Highlight newsletters), I wouldn't have blinked. It was the apparent arrival from a merchant to my KB contact email that ticked me off.

    This just in from my query to MarketingSherpa:
    Hi
    We apologize for this. We did do this survey in conjunction with Shawn and
    Kowabunga. Unfortunately we could only have one redirect page, flipped a
    coin and Shawn won. But we are behind the survey. All Kowabunga &
    MarketingSherpa readers will receive results.

    Thanks for your input. I will pass along the information.

    Regards,
    Sharon Hamner
    Customer Service Manager
    MarketingSherpa.com
    Okay, folks. We all get the results, and any of you earning big time on Kowabunga can probably count on being on some nice list next year.

    Can't trust noone for nothing no more. I really looked forward to my MarketingSherpa newsletters.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    If you think it'll make a difference
    REally, I'd thought MarketingSherpa above this kind of major bumble.

    If you think it will make any difference:
    service @ marketingsherpa.com

    Voice your opinion that you will have nothing to do with a survey that puts your answers in the hands of someone you don't trust.

    Yup, all it takes is matching up the query http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=xxxx with my KB userid, and it's perfectly personably identifiable.

    At least this year it didn't ask how much we make.

  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager DavidVanHook's Avatar
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    I respect Kowabunga! and I will definately contact them to let them know that actions like that can not be tolerated. I hope others who works with Kowabunga do the same. Thay need to be told that there is a fork in the road and they have two options. 1- to give continue support for smoke and mirror campaigns- were third party intentions is to underhandedly broker data -or- 2- (this is the simple choice) STOP dealing with people or companies who uses these types of practices and to choose the path (which they were on) of creating a innovative environment that support true Affiliates.
    Now, I must say this Kowabunga is a respected company but, that can change if the wrong path is choosen.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    I'll dig up the emails. They used my Kolimbo contact email to send an email which was not identifiably from them (although a few minutes digging showed the optinpro connection with KB) with an optinpro link to "opt out" of the list. A list I'd never signed up for from a merchant they service.

    By the time my email was finally deleted from that particular emailing list, I got the same recruiting email 5 times.

    They ARE brokering my contact email.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    I'm replying to MarketingSherpa to do their homework about what AFFILIATES think of Shawn Collins.

  18. #18
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    Sharon Hamner of Marketing Sherpa wrote:
    Unfortunately we could only have one redirect page, flipped a
    coin and Shawn won.
    I'm confused. Why was it necessary to have a redirect page? Was this so a cookie could be set? Wouldn't the redirect from AT to MS set a cookie for both entities?

    David, love your post. Pretty much where my thoughts have been recently. It's tired but it's true, "We're known by the company we keep."

  19. #19
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    Unfortunately we could only have one redirect page, flipped a
    coin and Shawn won.
    And affiliates everywhere lost, but hey, Rachel was only helping a pal... and rememebr shawn's other pals all - hey wait... that is reason enough to run from kowabunga.
    Last edited by chetf; August 11th, 2005 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Do I really type that slow?? Or did I pass out and lose time after reading that line...

  20. #20
    Internet Cowboy
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    Care to comment BenKowaBunga?


  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Sheri's Avatar
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    The same day we all seemed to have received this survey, I saw this article. Is this just a little bit of you pat my back and I'll pat yours?

    Affiliate Tip Article

    Sheri
    Last edited by Sheri; August 11th, 2005 at 02:01 PM. Reason: I'm a little confused today

  22. #22
    Affiliate Manager DavidVanHook's Avatar
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    Thank you Rhea, I am to a little confused at the Sharon Hammer[/U] statement

  23. #23
    Affiliate Manager DavidVanHook's Avatar
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    Sheri I read the same Article, Honestly, Kowabunga has the potential to join the Big 3, but, they need to be doing the right things to get there. I hope this is a lasp in judgement on there part. And I can forgive, but if nothing change I can also crucify.
    Last edited by DavidVanHook; August 11th, 2005 at 02:03 PM. Reason: add text

  24. #24
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    That article doesn't make sense. Because they're powering Yahoo Search Marketing's Certified Affiliate program they're now in the Big 4? I would say the big 3 are CJ/BF, Linkshare and Performics. If there is a 4th it would be SAS. All 4 have consolidated payments, they're networks, Kowabunga isn't. It's just a grouping of merchants using the MYAP software. So no Shawn, Kowabunga isn't 4th. Not what i consider a network.

  25. #25
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Here's where I'm a little confused...ok a lot confused.

    The first thing Kowabunga needs to do before they can potentially join the Big 3 is make a decision if they *are* a Network or not. One moment they are not a Network. Then they are going to be one of the Big 3 Networks. Just seems to me that you first have to *be* a Network to be one of the Big 3 Networks.

    Kowabunga needs to quite straddling the fence if they are a Network or not.

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