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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Network Exit Plans...
    I have long been away from LinkShare and with this New Update I am definitely starting my exit plan for leaving the CJ - Network.

    Cj tends to treat us more like we are asking for a handout with a tin cup..
    They never take us into consideration or even take our "reporting" questions/rants seriously.

    The days of the so called - "trusted third parties" have LONG been OVER.. Since they started pushing Adware/Toolbars/Parasites onto every merchant that signs-up with them.. "The Trust Is Gone"

    During the past couple of months I have been seeking out "in house" affiliate programs. What I found were a lot of these in house programs do not use cookies to track sales.. which is good IMO.. (Parasites leave them alone having no cookie to stuff or no link to take over -- adware spyware anti-virus programs don't recognise their links) The Non-Parasitic numbers are looking pretty darn good too.. converting at 1/25-30 versus the networks conversions at 1/100-150

    I have been very impressed with the payouts - sometimes up to 60% of the sale. BUT - the one thing that impressed me the most was their "Affiliate Services Dept" They actually treat me more like a "partner" than just another webmaster looking to get some kind of handout..

    Now this is only a couple of good in house affiliate programs that I am referring to.. so results may vary..

    BUT - it does give me hope of actually shedding the likes of CJ and any Network that pushes parasites or treats an affiliate like a complete nuisance.

    I only have a couple of really good merchants left at CJ and I am considering keeping my relationship with CJ - "JUST TO" keep my relationship with those merchants that actually take care of their affiliates regardless of CJ's ineptness.

    So if you don't have any "in house" affiliate programs going yet.. I suggest you look into it.. it may surprise you as it did me.. ( They actually treat you like a "partner" rather than a nuisance ) and the payouts are better along with the non-parasitic conversions which are a lot better..

    It is REALLY nice to get a new merchant on the phone after a couple of days of working with their program and they know you by name and actually treat you more like family than just another pain in the ass affiliate marketer... you can actually get REAL ANSWERS not the network SPIN..

    I found out that there is a WHOLE OTHER world out there to explore...
    And so far it looks like a much better one to be in when it comes to making money online..

    Any thoughts or experiences with in house programs from some of you online veterans here..?

  2. #2
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    Don't let the door hit you in the ass...

  3. #3
    lurk
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    What are you talking about! All you have to do is become one of the top 200 publishers to talk to a real support agent with CJ.
    Jason

  4. #4
    Internet Cowboy
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    Don't let the spin of the CJ Performer program fool you. Having a dedicated contact at CJ doesn't necessarily mean that you will bypass the BS that has been happening lately.


  5. #5
    lurk
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    Don't let the spin of the CJ Performer program fool you. Having a dedicated contact at CJ doesn't necessarily mean that you will bypass the BS that has been happening lately.

    I know... being sarcastic. I am sure CJ has well over 10,000 publishers. If you are in the top 200 you are doing real well.
    Jason

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Zoe2 - Ha ha funny.. you did not read the entire post.. I am not leaving affiliate marketing.. I love it and do well.. by the way you wouldn't happen to be a CJ programmer would you.. lol..

    jrod805 - To be a top 200 publisher at CJ usually means Parasite.. so I will never make it.. -- Last I heard they had over 70,000 affiliates in the system..

    UncleScooter - you gotta have some in house program you would like to comment on.. no need to name names just give comments..

  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    What I found were a lot of these in house programs do not use cookies to track sales..
    NO COOKIES = No return days = Bad! Having no pie left for anyone, is NOT an improvement over fighting for it.

    A cookieless merchant is like an internal parasite, that eats the commish from any product that people don't buy during the first session. Without cookies, even if the customer goes to another site for just a second to check out the competition, and then comes back to the merchant, you're screwed! Unless there's some new longer-term cookieless tracking method I've never heard of, I think cookieless tracking was made-to-order for merchants hoping to lose the tracking info somewhere along the way.

    Any thoughts or experiences with in house programs from some of you online veterans here..?
    I've got some indies. In house programs are a PITA, they all have some infernal proprietary feed, if they don't pay you're screwed (whereas, at SAS, you are NOT! And at CJ, even though you are screwed, you tend to find out about the deadbeat before running their links for 6 months!), there's no clues as to program-wide performance for indies except their PR spin, they can have some really odd quirks, etc etc etc.

    Some indies are good DESPITE the drawbacks but indie-ness is certainly not a plus in my book. Unless the alternative is Snare; that network has been known to muck up even otherwise okay merchant programs.

    I would choose all-SAS over going all-indy if it came to such a choice for me...although frankly either of those measures makes me shudder. I'd rather aim for good merchants at multiple places.

    It is REALLY nice to get a new merchant on the phone after a couple of days of working with their program and they know you by name and actually treat you more like family than just another pain in the ass affiliate marketer...
    That's more of a difference between individuals than a network vs. indy thing. At networks I've had everything from merchants where it'd take the FBI to find them, to ones where I've been ready to call the FBI to get them OFF ME! (You know...*Down boy! Bad dog!!*)

    Same with indies, which reminds me, I have to bug one for their new feed. If they were a CJ merchant, I'd have had it automatically...albiet with possible delays while CJ un-fubars that system...
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  8. #8
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Most of my income comes from independants. CJ, however, has forked over a check every month to me for nigh on four years. I'm not going to turn that down right now, and prepare a mass exodus out of their network. I may have some issues with CJ, but I don't see where quitting them empowers me.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager nish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    NO COOKIES = No return days = Bad! Having no pie left for anyone, is NOT an improvement over fighting for it.
    Very true.

    I guess, one advantage of some indy programs is with first-party cookies as opposed to network's third-party cookies, which are a little bit more prone to be deleted by anti-spywares.

    -nishith

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    I'm sure there will be another British invasion in the future, some more network competition, except it will be a big brand clean network

  11. #11
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    TN1 I like the way you think. (sometimes )

  12. #12
    Affiliate Manager nish's Avatar
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    more competition == better service

    And according to the Radio Show, the brit competitor also uses first-party merchant cookies. So thats good news for affiliates.

  13. #13
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
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    I'm sure there will be another British invasion in the future, some more network competition, except it will be a big brand clean network
    Yes, but then one of the principals will marry a woman named Yoko and the consortium will disintegrate in a smoldering mess of bruised egos and a guy named Michael will buy the publishing rights to their work.

    Something like that anyway.

    Seriously, I like indies a lot. I wish I could find more of them that fit my niches. Networks tend to be more merchant-centric than affiliate-centric. Indy programs have no merchants to distract them and can spend whatever resources are available in support of their affiliates. However I can't say I'm always thrilled with indy programs either. If an indy is large enough or focused enough to have a dedicated affiliate manager that's always a very good sign to me.

  14. #14
    Affiliate Network Rep Danny K's Avatar
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    Tempted to capture this opportunity by posting a link. But I don't see any other indy Affmgrs posting in here. It seems you are addressing affiliates and I'm personally freaked about making anybody mad here. So, I'll keep a watch and perhaps interested parties will search us out.

    - DIY, furniture making, cabinet making, wood, tools, home remodeling.
    - Many compliments received about our back office for affiliates.
    - Affiliate marketing pioneer in this industry
    - 5+ years running.

    I hope your quest for independents reaps many new opportunities. It is my firm belief they better foster a long-term relationship by removing liasons who have little "voice" to effect change.

    All the best,

  15. #15
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    I use a mix of indies and network places. The indies I have are working out fairly well, but I do remember when you couldn't trust many of them. That may still be the case.

    I've gotten rid of most of the cookieless ones. Some I've picked up lately because they have what I need. But I'm suggesting to them that they grow up and be more trusted.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Leader - good points as always.. I was freaked by the no-cookie deal as well.. but the program I am talking about has a good rep and should be OK.. most of my sales are not from return visitors any way.. they usually click through and buy.. BUT I will watch them closely and see how much I am sending them verses the amount of sales..

    Now I don't want to confuse anyone.. and maybe the TITLE wasn't the best one..
    but I am not eliminating CJ because I have two good merchants there that I would like to keep.. and they do send me checks and that is always a plus.. =)
    What I am looking at is diversifying myself not only with different merchants but with indies as well.. kind of spread myself out...

    I love the idea behind share a sale but I can't find any good niche merchants that fit my sites.. although there is one that I have been meaning to put links up for.. I sometimes forget about SAS.. since I have looked all through the merchants there and can't find what I need... ( Still looking for a good place to sell "bulbs" =) )

    TrustNo1 - "some more network competition, except it will be a big brand clean network" THAT SOUNDS GREAT.. bring on the Brits..

    ElbowCreek - I don't plan on totally quiting them - only getting far enough away so the blast from their upgrade BOMB doesn't singe my eyebrows as much..
    This past week with the update I made about 24 hours worth of commissions from them.. maybe a little more - but the point is their tracking is definetely affected when they update regardless of what they say.. - OR - they are losing data during the batch processing that they are not 100% trying to recover.. (SOMETHING)..

    Danny K - "Tempted to capture this opportunity by posting a link." If you don't want to post a link just PM me..

  17. #17
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    ( Still looking for a good place to sell "bulbs" =) )
    AHEM!

    Unless you're like Yahoo and you want a page full of LIGHT bulbs.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  18. #18
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    Yeah, we have a dedicated contact at CJ - a lot of use that is!

    He is conveniently on holiday for 3 weeks, just when we want to complain about not getting reports to download
    [URL=http://ProxyGrader.com]ProxyGrader.com[/URL]
    How anonymous is your proxy?

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Indy merchants have it all over the mass traffic networks, including all the 'not ready for prime time' SAS merchants.... and their affiliates posing as merchants. They have the financial incentive ability to demand physical clicks from on page promotions. Exclusion, via a gated community and strong TOS, guarantees them the 500,000 worthless "tricks for clicks" spamming affiliates don't corrupt their programs or drive up costs of their own SEO/SEM campaigns.

    Naming great converting Indy merchants at ABW will not happen, as those invited into those programs want their income potential kept from the group. Look at what the desperate affiliate marketers all demand from any merchant.... all flavors of spam food. A good indy merchant can easily find and recruit value-add legit affiliates from a Google search box. They just have to be honest about their conversion ratio on targeted traffic. If they want mass traffic they can go to any mass traffic perveyor on the cheap or hawk CPM placements.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    EcomCity - "A good indy merchant can easily find and recruit value-add legit affiliates from a Google search box."

    Yep that is how these guys found me.. I got a phone call.. it was pretty cool.. first time I have gotten a phone call from any merchant asking me to join their program.. We went over everything and I decided to give them a try.. hopefully it will be a good program.. "fingers crossed"

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    I don't think any network goes into business planning to screw the affiliate. By their very nature and size, they attract every parasite, anti-ad/cookie/firewall co. and sleazy merchant, all of which can damage affiliates bottom line.
    But, would'nt bother me if every merchant went independant. The 'good' ones would still stay good, I expect.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    ...there's no clues as to program-wide performance for indies except their PR spin, they can have some really odd quirks, etc etc etc.

    Overall I've had fairly good luck with the indies vs. network merchants. One of my top income producers hasn't fixed their broken reporting function for over a year now. I've never been able to access my stats and they only offer one text link. The checks roll in every month with a full sales report attached. I figure "if it aint broke, don't fix it".
    ~Ernie

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    Yep that is how these guys found me.. I got a phone call.. it was pretty cool.. first time I have gotten a phone call from any merchant asking me to join their program.. "[/QUOTE]

    I've sure noticed a huge increase in phone calls and email spam from some merchants lately. I've been getting about two calls a day for several months now. Most seem to have found me through a #1 shopping term on Google. The number of link exchange requests I receive has increased proportionally, too. I'm glad I gave up link exchanges a year ago. If I responded to all of them I wouldn't have time to work on my sites.
    ~Ernie

  24. #24
    Full Member asr_guy's Avatar
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    I recently had an interesting enquiry from a prospective client, who is a super affiliate for several merchants on a big network. Normally you'd think the merchant would take the initiative to move off the network, but in this case it was the affiliate who was researching the options for the whole group.

    They were planning to move off the network - all the merchants and this affiliate. Then they would create their own mini network using an affiliate software vendor's "network builder" product. They would handle the payments and recruiting of a few new selected affiliates.

    I suspect the economy of scale and payout services etc. that the network offered just didn't justify the costs since there was this one super affiliate who was almost like their internet marketing and sales department.

    The bottom line is that for many situations you are better off going with your own in-house solution.

    Cheers.
    [URL=http://www.typoassassin.com/?utm_source=abestweb&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=p&utm_campaign=sig]Are these affiliates stealing from you?[/URL]

  25. #25
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    A CJ merchant sent me this email this morning via CJ's list of affs. It says I got it cuz I'm a member of the "games" category - I'm not.

    This kind of product at CJ (read the details of what it is below) is why I am soured on them as well - I don't view this as a product / service marketing endevour at all. It's a marketing enticement to obtain personally identifiable information from consumers who don't know better than to give it up for some cheesey games. And it's intentionally targeted at kids. Imagine the ways that this company will monetize the information that they collect. And CJ has become a huge magnet for this type of partner BECAUSE of their eagerness to get types like this onboard.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Subj: Earn Money With PermissionResearch!

    Hello X,

    Wed like to invite you to earn money from PermissionResearch!!

    PermissionResearch currently offers awesome GAMES including:
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    As a publisher in the Games Category, dont miss out on this opportunity to increase your REVENUE by signing up to be a PermissionResearch publisher today!!

    Please check us out at Advertiser Detail!! If you have any questions, dont hesitate to contact us!

    We hope to hear from you soon!!

    Thank You,
    Jackie
    Performance Manager
    PermissionResearch Affiliate Program
    Affiliate@permissionresearch.com
    www.permissionresearch.com

    PermissionResearch is part of an online market research community with over 2 million members worldwide. PermissionResearch relies on its members to gain valuable insight into Internet trends and behavior. In exchange for having their Internet browsing and purchasing activity observed, members have access to free software downloads and a variety of other benefits including entries into our Your Opinion Matters sweepstakes. By joining PermissionResearch, members have the opportunity to help companies in the Financial Services, Consumer Products, Travel, Healthcare, Media, Automotive and Retail industries. Membership is free and all personal information will remain confidential. Earn $.75 for each qualified lead. A qualified lead must complete the PermissionResearch registration and remain a member for 15 days.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This message was sent by an advertiser in the Commission Junction network based on the mail settings selected in your account. Commission Junction does not send messages to individuals outside of its network and guards the privacy of all information received. To unsubscribe from receiving this type of message, login or visit www.cj.com to sign in. Once in the Account Manager, navigate to the mail settings page located within the MAIL tab. You may opt-out of receiving messages from this specific advertiser through their advertiser detail page.

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