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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Ebays New Compensation Structure - Oct. 1
    http://affiliates.ebay.com/revshare/

    I like it the way it is now. Time will tell how this works out..

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Hmmm...not sure about this. I've always thought eBay should pay MORE for BINs and bids that win auctions, but not pay ONLY when those circumstances are met. We are, after all, still driving targeted traffic to their site.

    I'll have to think about this one. eBay's fees can add up, I'm just not sure if it will be enough.

  3. #3
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    Let me get this straight... if you have less than 3000 new registrations per month, you get $4 to $8 less per registration compared to the current structure, but you may earn more based only on the revshare? Hmmmmm..... Makes you wonder why they didn't do this before... I guess the new reg. rates are still higher than their former $10/reg amount.
    Hi, I'm a signature.

  4. #4
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    This is worse than it seems.

    In order to earn the $0.10 that we get per bid now, we will have to get 40% of a fee of $0.25 that eBay receives (40% of $0.25 = $0.10)

    In order for eBay to get $0.25, the item has to sell for about $5.

    And if I read the email correctly, the only person to get that $0.10 on a $5 item will be the affiliate who refers the winning bidder.

    First, that means that eBay has now dramatically cut down the amount of money it pays out per auction. An auction with 10 affiliate bids might have cost eBay $1 in the past. Now eBay is going to pay 40% of its seller fee to only the winning bidder. If that item sold for $10, that means they are going to pay out just $0.21.

    But second, that completely changes the chances of an affiliate to be paid a commission. It probably cuts the chance by 80%.

    So in other words, we may make a little more per item, but we're going to have a lot lower chance of making it.

    I expect my eBay revenue will drop by 75%. And if it does, I'll drop eBay.

    I think people can probably estimate how this will affect them; check your transaction lot, and figure out what people are bidding on. Then see if the bidder is the high bidder on the item (you can tell from the timestamps).

    If the affiliates you drive aren't high bidders, then eBay is effectively saying that they are of no value to them. I disagree with that, because they are pushing up the amount of money that the item sells for, resulting in a happer seller plus higher commissions for them.

    My prediction is that this change is the shaft.

  5. #5
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    Seems reasonable
    Trust: I agree, I don't want them to change the way it was.

    Andy: But you are missing the point, we used to be paid on all bids, winning and not. Now we are going to be paid only on winning bids. I'm sure we'll all get less money. Also, there are no conditions that are to be met for the bid, although it is only a 7 day cookie for the bid. It's only the signups that have conditions and those conditions are the same conditions they have always been.

    But, if you really want to know the truth, I think we was being overpaid to begin with anyway. Remember it used to be $5 for a signup and then they increased it to $10 and then to $20. I'm not complaining, I gladly took the money and put up more ebay links than I probably should have. But this seems reasonable. We make money only if they make money. I did a quick check and saw that about 20% of my bibs are buy it now bids. There is no way for me to know which of the other bids are winning bids.

    I guess all I'm saying is that, I know I'm going to make less money because they in effect lowered their commissions, but the commission structure seems reasonable and I don't have a problem with it. (I'll just probably drop a few of the excess ebay links I have.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador MeeMaw's Avatar
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    Does this mean that ACRU now has to be a "winning" bid, or just a bid in general?

    In other words do we only get paid for ACRU's that have winning bids or bins? If so, then things are really going to drop not even getting that occasional ACRU.

  7. #7
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    If you look at the bottom of the email, you'll see there will be a phone up town hall where they will explain what they are doing and you can submit questions. Now the odds of me remembering to call and listen to this is pretty much zero. But here is a question to submit if you like. I'm not since I'll forget to hear the answer anyway.

    "Using August 2005 as an example, exactly how much in gross dollars did affiliates make under the old structure and how much would have they made under the new structure?"

    If you divide the new number from the old number and then multiply by 100, this will tell you the percentage lose (or gain...hahah) when the new structure comes into effect next month. There is no doubt in my mind that they have this percentage already although it might be for July not August, but I'm sure the percentage will be the same.

    If anyway does post the question and gets an answer please post the answer to this board :-)

  8. #8
    Chick with Brains Tracy's Avatar
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    That "winning bid" part has me concerned. What if somebody clicks on your link and bids. Then somebody comes along and bids against them. Then the bidding goes back and forth and the price gets driven up to $67.00.

    Since the initial bid is not the winning bid, and even if though the person you sent to eBay in the first place won, you still don't make anything because it wasn't the winning bid?

  9. #9
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    No no no, if someone bids on an item and ultimately wins the bid, you get a commission based on the final price of the bid. What is more of a concern is what if the auction is 10 days and the guy bids and 10 days laters wins the auction do you get paid because the initial bid was within the 7 days or do you not get it b/c the final bid was after the 7th day?

    I hope that as long as the initial bid on a particular item was within the 7 days of a click from your site that you will get the commission on all winning bids from that visitor.

  10. #10
    Chick with Brains Tracy's Avatar
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    Are you sure?
    A "Winning Bid" is defined as any bid placed after a user comes to eBay from a link on your site (within 7 days of the original bid cookie being dropped) and that eventually becomes the Winning Bid on the item.
    I think what that refers to is when somebody goes through the process of letting eBay bid for them. For example. The price is $5.00 right now. The person bids $10.00. Somebody comes along and bids $5.50. eBay automatically raises it to $6.00.

    However, if the person comes in at $5.00 and bids $5.00. Somebody else comes along and bids $5.50, and eBay sends the first bidder the email stating that they've been outbid, clicks on the link in the email and bids again. I don't think you get credit for that one.

    I just selected a date (6/27/05) at random and analyzed what would have happened if this new system was in place. You're not going to believe this. That day I made $2.20 for 21 bids and one BIN. Of those, one was an older than 7-day cookie, and 12 did not win the item. Of the ones that won:

    Code:
    Start            End              Insert  Final   eBay
    Price 	         Price 	          Fee 	 Val 	 Earned 
     $ 0.01 	 $ 0.01 	 $0.25 	 $0.00 	 $0.25 
     $ 3.99 	 $ 3.99 	 $0.35 	 $0.21 	 $0.56 
     $ 1.29 	 $ 1.29 	 $0.35 	 $0.07 	 $0.42 
    				
     $ 7.99 	 $ 7.99 	 $0.35 	 $0.42 	 $0.77 
    				
     $ 5.99 	 $ 5.99 	 $0.35 	 $0.31 	 $0.66 
     $19.99 	 $19.99 	 $0.60 	 $1.05 	 $1.65 
     $11.99 	 $11.99 	 $0.60 	 $0.63 	 $1.23
    eBay earned a total of $5.54, so I would have earned 40% of that or $2.22. Hey, I would have earned 2 cents more than the old way.

    There were two other bids, but they fell under the second scenario I quoted above. The bid made by clicking my site was the first bid for both items. Somebody else bid against the person, and in both cases, the person came back and made a second bid, so I could have earned an extra $.07 from those two, but my click didn't produce the winning bid, even though the person I sent to eBay won.

  11. #11
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    I have hundreds of thousands of pages that send traffic to ebay, screw me out of the commission I'm used to making and watch that traffic go to other merchants. If earnings stay close to the same- fine. However my revenue drops and I'm done.

    Now does uBid have a program anywhere?

  12. #12
    Member holyearth's Avatar
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    I think that ebay KNEW for a while they were going to do this and told CJ long ago and then CJ worked on the UPGRADE (hence the new "CLOSED" status) and that explains why CJ was rushed, didn't test it, and we suffered. ebay ASKED CJ to do it and CJ bent over , as usual , and did it. I think ebay did it because they can't afford to pay anymore (shareholders want more revenue? , or maybe their prospects have been met by us already so now we can go to heck ....) or who knows..... but I think we're all gonna earn less now.....

    For me, I'm packin my bags and moving. I already changed all programs from CJ to others at LS and SAS. All but ebay ... but now i'm (thinking about) quittin that and CJ altogether..... HURRAY lol


    This was just posted at the ebay affiliate forum...interesting...
    Well folks, they say all good things come to an end...

    See: http://affiliates.ebay.com/revshare/

    Negative change number 1)
    We were being paid $20 per registration at the LOWEST tier, well now we're only going to be paid $12 at the lowest tier.

    Negative change number 2)
    Instead of being paid .10 cents per BID at the LOWEST tier, we are now going to be paid a "percentage" of what ebay makes per sale. (This is called revenue share)...Let me outline this here:

    Before:
    A user bids on ANYTHING and you'd get .10 cents...

    Now:
    A user must bid *AND* actually WIN the auction (this is so bad)...so...if the item ends for ohh I don't know $100, and eBay collected $5 in total fees, you will be paid (at the lowest tier) 40% of $5 which is $2.

    What this means to affiliates
    Well, you'll now see that across the board affiliates will earn less. Those who were making a living probably won't be anymore...I say this because the top affiliates like netmeans (who used UNAPPROVED methods and GOT AWAY with it) were operating on a razor thin margin....dumping $200k on adwords a month and generating $210k-$215k (mind you this is at the highest $45 tier)(now you see how ebay was able to say we pay hundreds of thousands a month) in revenue...so look for all those ads that google dislikes on google to start disappearing...that's probably the only good thing resulting from ebay's new "revenue share" $#"at"$ since so MANY people were dumping entire dictionaries of keywords into google and that's how the "slaves on ebay" ads unfortunately became famous.

    Why ebay has done this
    ebay can't afford this anymore !!!!!! they're hurting !!!!!! Obviously the engine couldn't afford to put out that much horsepower. The economics just don't work (and they never did). eBay's engine has been shelling out A LOT of money for registrations ... and for ebay to recoop those funds ... well that takes a while... This was a good tactic (early on)for ebay because it basically reinforced their position in the auction market. I think you will now start to see overstock and any other competitors gain some SERIOUS yardage on ebay. (even though ebay remains the highest payer ... if you will)

    What do we do know?
    LOL it's hardly the end of the world...
    ebay's best affiliate days were in the early beginnings....rolling stone promoted them....they topped out at paying $1 million to one affiliate in one month...yes those were the days...then the program took a turn for the worse....(no doubt this is ebay's fault)...while their commissions were remaining aggressively high...affiliate earnings weren't...eva hung tried hard to communicate with affiliates and make the program successful...and if you ask me what did it ... I have to say it all boils down to CJ. Everyone, NO DOUBT, who has been in the ebay program for 3 or more months will tell you how rough CJ is.

    CJ says tracking is never affected...you buy that?
    CJ puts up knowingly false case studies...CJ is late on paying sometimes...
    CJ reporting is a nightmare...
    CJ doesn't test their upgrades....why would they? It's not like they care for us or anything...

    I'm sure you can think of more reasons....

    Essentially CJ hasn't done their best to facilitate a good relationship between merchants/publishers...and ebay is to blame for sticking to CJ.

    Who am I? Don't worry about that. I'm just an affiliate like all of you. Sorry if there's something factually wrong with my post, the essence of it should be exact. I've been promoting ebay for quite a while so I know more than I'm writing here... and it is an ugly picture of the way things work up there at ebay ("connections" -- "relationships" -- "palm greasers" ... :wink: netmeans/eva :wink: yes :-o)...

    well ebay's probably going to remove this post just like my others where I copy/paste netmeans bidding on the trademarked keyword ebay and ebay does nothing about it....don’t you hate “connections”

    Just goes to show you why the program is over with :-)

    Move on fellas make a buck or two with other merchants at OTHER networks like SAS.....avoid CJ... :-)

    Sincerely,
    Expired relationship

    P.S. When CJ did the upgrades (of course at the request of ebay) (CJ revolves around ebay) ... we all new what these meant: new / locked / accepted / extended..... but what the hell does the new "CLOSED" mean....

    well that's for ebay (what ebay wants ebay gets) (that's why ebay no leave CJ … ever :-))

    From: http://affiliates.ebay.com/revshare/
    Any action that leads to a "closed" transaction in which revenue is not received by eBay (For example, Unpaid Items/UPIs)

    You guys remember the previous program -- "RED INK" a/k/a "REVERSALS GALORE" ...................... good.....don't forget it :-) :-) it's comin back :-) :-) :-) :-)

  13. #13
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    Watch your calculations! Things are very different if the item was sold via an eBay store.

    With an eBay store, the insertion fee is exactly 2 cents per 30 days listed. I did the same thing you did, I went through a day's commissions and figured out how much I'd earn. I would lose out because the items that I drive are typically lower-priced (hockey cards).

    On some of my transactions, I'd receive $0.01 because eBay essentially earned just 3 cents on the item (2 cents for listing, 1 cent for the final value fee). All of my "buy it now" transactions were from eBay stores on my sample day.

    On sample day, I received $2.50 the old way, and $3.03 the new way. However, my total was boosted by a $62 item that someone bought which was unrelated to the topic of my site. It was pure luck. Without that item I would have received $1.34, or 54% less than the old way.

    This is now like casino gambling. The more bidders on an item, the less chance that you'll actually get a commission for it. And that usually happens on higher-priced items. Unless you are in the perfect niche -- high priced items with only a few bidders who are willing to pay good money -- I think you'll lose out in the long run.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Ojmoo: No, I got the point. I'm just not sure how I feel about the changes at this time. If your site regularly attracted bidders who bid on higher dollar items, you'd make more money if they won. But as Ralph indicated, you have to determine how many of your visitors are winners. Could get pretty involved.

    I sure hope the reversals don't come back. I like knowing when something shows up, it's usually going to stick. I hate seeing reversals. If they come back with eBay, that might kill the program for me. No doubt I can make more from those pages in the long run by promoting merchants who want to sell stuff.

    Plus, I still have that annoying "Undefined" error generated by eBay's Editor Kit. I might just kill off all the eBay pages to get rid of that alone!

  15. #15
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    '"Winning Bid" is defined as any bid placed after a user comes to eBay from a link on your site (within 7 days of the original bid cookie being dropped) and that eventually becomes the Winning Bid on the item.'

    Hmmm. That "eventually" is puzzling. If it said "eventually becomes the winning User" I'd be comfortable, but the way it's worded suggest that Tracy could be right - you only get paid if the bidder bids a maximum WHEN they come from your link.

    If they bid low and come back later via an eBay reminder, we MAY be screwed.

    Someone from eBay care to put this matter to rest?

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I think I'll probably just do away with eBay if the bid itself is the sticking point. If that person comes back later, increases their proxy, or bids again due to an eBay reminder that is mailed out, and that action cuts us out of the deal, then eBay is a huge waste of time. They don't want affiliates, they want free advertising. And you know eBay will pound them with messages!

    Message to eBay: NOTHING is free in this world. You don't allow free auction listings, we don't promote deadbeat merchants who expect us to provide free advertising for them.

    Hopefully, they just need to clarify and clean up their descriptive wording.

  17. #17
    Full Member affiliate4all's Avatar
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    Tracy,
    How did you get all that data?

    I am still doubtful on what will make an ACRU? Does the bid has to be winning bid in order to convert a CRU to ACRU status? Already the registrations are very few nowadays and I guess any new bidders always prefer to play safe and usually ends up losing their first couple of bids. Are they paying $12 on CRUs that lose the bid?
    Do they make any changes in the cookie duration?

  18. #18
    Full Member fg20878's Avatar
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    That "7-day cookie" is really bad for all of us. It means we are going to lose 80% of chance to make money compare to "30-day cookie". If you promote expensive items, you might do ok or better.

  19. #19
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    It's relatively easy to check. Simply download a transaction report from CJ. In the Order ID field there are two numbers separated by a semicolon. The first is some kind of unique identified of a user on eBay. The second is the item number that the user bid on. Match the event date to the bid date on the auction and you'll see whether the bid resulted in a win or a loss, and how much the item sold for.

    This is basically just a big roulette wheel, but it is stacked in eBay's favor because in any auction, the chances of one bid being linked to an affiliate are small. So

    My big problem is that they are lumping everything on the affiliate who brought in the winning bidder. While the winning bidder is the most impotant bidder, this ignores the role of the runner-up bidder. An item could be listed for $1, and although the winning bidder bids $100 the item will sell for $1 without another bidder jacking it up to perhaps $50. So that second bidder has value to both the auction owner and eBay.

    I can see the fairness in them not paying 10 cents on a Buy-it-Now sale that basically nets them 3 cents in fees, but in paying $0 for any bid but the winning bid doesn't reflect the real value of a bidder.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador MeeMaw's Avatar
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    Still not clear on the ACRU, and if that needs to be a winning bid, or just a bid in general. If all ACRU's have to be winning bids, then that is definitely the end of this affiliate program.

  21. #21
    Full Member fg20878's Avatar
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    MeeMaw,

    Here is the definition of ACRU:

    Q: What is an ACRU?
    A:
    An ACRU is defined as an individual who: (a) registers for eBay from the specific URL designated by eBay; (b) confirms his or her registration with an eBay-supplied password sent by email; (c) then goes onto eBay and places a bid or uses BIN to purchase an item within 30 days of their original registration; and (d) does not have an account with eBay at the time of registration. The program is not session based - users do not need to click, register, and make a bid or use BIN during the same visit. They can come back and finish the registration process within 30 days.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    I'm really curious to see how this pans out. I should do a lot better with eBay considering the changes if my bids turn out to be winning bids. I'm not sure how many will, but looking at my earnings with eBay as of late, any change will be an improvement. I promote higher priced items, so this change should work in my favor. It'll be nice to see a little variety in the bid earnings.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  23. #23
    Full Member affiliate4all's Avatar
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    Snib
    The operative word in your post being 'if'. thats precisely why most of us are anxious.

  24. #24
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    Higher-priced items may not help you; typically higher-priced items attract more bidders. The more people bidding, the smaller the chance that the bidder you referred will be the winner. You might get lucky from time to time, but odds are you'll lose out.

    The people who will win are those who promote high-cost, low-demand items. Or even just low-demand items in general. You can do really well if you're promoting a lot of $5 items with just a single bidder. Much more than someone promoting $50 items with 10 bidders (because odds are you'll get 1/10 the $50 winners versus 100% of the $5 winners).

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador MeeMaw's Avatar
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    I know the definition of an ACRU. I have been in the ebay program for some time, and that was their previous description as well.

    The problem lies in that it doesn't say "winning" bid, but the general concept of these new terms is that ebay is only paying on winning bids and/or bins. So does the ACRU require a winning bid (which creates that other transaction that matches up with the registration) or just a bid in general? BIN is another story.

    Example from before:

    1) User registers. (shows up as registration in transactions on cj)
    2) User bids within 30 days, but not necessarily a winning bid (shows up as .10 transaction on CJ).
    3) Ebay matches the two together and bingo you have an ACRU.

    The problem I see is that the #2 transaction will ONLY appear if it's a "winning" bid. Does that mean non-winning bids within 30 days don't count towards the ACRU?

    Perhaps I am just worried for nothing, but ebay was some decent income for me.

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