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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Dirty Tricks at the DMOZ?
    There's an interesting article about alleged "dirty tricks" some editors at DMOZ may be using when listing competitor's sites.

    http://www.seomoz.org/blogdetail.php?ID=388

    Looking at some of the real estate listings there, you can see that some of the descriptions totally suck and are void of any relevant keywords but, unless you know what the site owner submitted, how would we know if the description is bad because of the editor or the site owner? Interesting read though.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
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  2. #2
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Real estate is not the only area...

    http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/W...s/Consultants/

    I'm thankful that i don't depend on that listing for my business as it has been completely 100% word of mouth and ABW for the last 2 years....
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
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  3. #3
    Internet Cowboy
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    I went to a seminar once with a web design client of mine. The lady putting on the seminar was a DMOZ editor and her husband has a company that builds web sites for the industry that she is an editor for. The seminar was a "how to get your site higher in the serps" kinda thing.
    She actually said during this seminar, "Getting your site in the DMOZ directory is very important. My clients (meaning the ones who bought their web site from her husband's company) get listed the same day because I am the editor for this section."
    How F'd up is that?
    I reported her, DMOZ did NOTHING!!!!


  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Rodriguez
    Real estate is not the only area...

    http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/W...s/Consultants/

    I'm thankful that i don't depend on that listing for my business as it has been completely 100% word of mouth and ABW for the last 2 years....
    I see some of them, not mine of course , that don't have a very good description but how do we know who is responsible for the "bad" description? I was surprised you weren't listed Andy.
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  5. #5
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rice
    I was surprised you weren't listed Andy.
    When you find out who the editor of that section is, you will understand...
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    I went to a seminar once with a web design client of mine. The lady putting on the seminar was a DMOZ editor and her husband has a company that builds web sites for the industry that she is an editor for. The seminar was a "how to get your site higher in the serps" kinda thing.
    She actually said during this seminar, "Getting your site in the DMOZ directory is very important. My clients (meaning the ones who bought their web site from her husband's company) get listed the same day because I am the editor for this section."
    How F'd up is that?
    I reported her, DMOZ did NOTHING!!!!
    Yeah, something's wrong with that.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
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  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Rodriguez
    When you find out who the editor of that section is, you will understand...
    Yes, I know who it is. When my listing didn't show I emailed him asking him why. He quickly approved it.

    How complete is an affiliate manager's directory without the Doctor?
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  8. #8
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    Exclamation
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Rodriguez
    When you find out who the editor of that section is, you will understand...
    Andy -

    Cool it with the false accusations. Instead, let's deal in facts.

    I am an editor in that section; I checked and you have never submitted your url to be listed in DMOZ.

    I just added it myself.

  9. #9
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    The Doctor is 'IN' I guess!


    Sorry, just hadda say it.............
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  10. #10
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Yes, a LOT of DMOZ descriptions ARE sucky from a marketing perspective, but actually they are meant to be that way - factual, hype-free and consistent, As descriptions they are meant to make sense from the point of view of someone browsing the directory, not looking up the site in the Google SERPs.

    What I think is wrong is the way the Google has suddenly decided to give the DMOZ description as the snippet for sites. A couple of years back they DROPPED the DMOZ description, but before then they had SERPS with the site title, standard snippet and THEN the DMOZ description. That made a heck of a lot more sense from the point of view of the SERPs.

    Sure, there is some corruption at the ODP, but very little. What most people see as corruption is typically due to insufficient editor resources, poor editing by newbies or a misunderstanding of the ODP guidelines.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Very interesting.

    Andy,

    Out of cruiosity, did you submit for a listing and were declined, or did you not submit at all, thinking you would not get approved?

  12. #12
    Plazan Merchant Neil's Avatar
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    here is a thread i started at the DMOZ forum,
    regarding my listing.
    i wonder if the editor of that section
    has cosmetics sites ??.

    the title they gave me was crap.
    http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40403
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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador
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    DMOZ is dead....
    roland

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador ToughTurkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland
    DMOZ is dead....
    roland
    and a joke. It's rife with dirty editors. I can't believe G still uses it at all.

  15. #15
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    A thread that is all too typical at dmoz's forum..... http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40659
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  16. #16
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil
    here is a thread i started at the DMOZ forum,
    regarding my listing.
    i wonder if the editor of that section
    has cosmetics sites ??.

    the title they gave me was crap.
    http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40403
    What a bunch of arrogant corksoakers on that board. I read this thread and the condescending attitude from every one of them amazes me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ODP Assole
    Generally, I'd expect an update request to be reviewed anywhere from a few minutes to a few months after it is submitted. Two years is not impossible, but I would consider it unlikely for an update request.
    I bet updates to their own sites don't take two months!! No wonder our buddy Con Shawlins is in with these folks. Kindred spirits!
    You were a lot nicer to them than I would be, both apparently with the same result.


  17. #17
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Probably the biggest problem DMOZ has is spam - it's just like the cruft in your email inbox. There's a slew of crappy low quality sites, plus a load of affiliate sites, dropship customers, made-for-AdSense sites and other stuff clogging up the submission queues. Just imagine the crap that gets submitted to gambling and ion medication categories.. then expand that to all the commercial topic areas.

    Added to that a shortage of editors and it often struggles in commercial categories, with a combination of high rates of submission and a difficult editing process (i.e. weeding out all the crap is time consuming).

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - the basic rules with DMOZ are to find the CORRECT category to submit to, submit a well-thought out entry that conforms with the GUIDELINES and is in the style of other listings and then FORGET ABOUT IT and get on with promoting your site in all the other ways you can manage.
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  18. #18
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamoo
    Probably the biggest problem DMOZ has is spam - it's just like the cruft in your email inbox. There's a slew of crappy low quality sites, plus a load of affiliate sites, dropship customers, made-for-AdSense sites and other stuff clogging up the submission queues. Just imagine the crap that gets submitted to gambling and ion medication categories.. then expand that to all the commercial topic areas.

    Added to that a shortage of editors and it often struggles in commercial categories, with a combination of high rates of submission and a difficult editing process (i.e. weeding out all the crap is time consuming).

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - the basic rules with DMOZ are to find the CORRECT category to submit to, submit a well-thought out entry that conforms with the GUIDELINES and is in the style of other listings and then FORGET ABOUT IT and get on with promoting your site in all the other ways you can manage.
    I have a very high quality site (and I have about 30 or 40 complimentary emails to prove it) that was submitted yet not reviewed (since Jan) or perhaps not accepted. I am not allowed to know what happened. It doesn't bother me that this whole setup is run in such an inconsistent and sometimes mysterious manner. What bugs me is how much weight the search engines place on this directory.
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  19. #19
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    Some of the DMOZ editors themselves are corrupt.

  20. #20
    Internet Cowboy
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    An organization such as this where the editors, who no doubt have sites in their category, decide what sites get in is nothing but corrupt.
    Just think about it. If HardwareGeek was in charge of deciding what sites were listed in the computer hardware category, how can he be anything but corrupt? (just using you as an example Geek).
    I would say a few of the editors are most likely on the up and up, but I bet good money that 50% or more are not. That is why the usefulness of this directory is at an all time low and it is quickly becoming a joke.


  21. #21
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    An organization such as this where the editors, who no doubt have sites in their category, decide what sites get in is nothing but corrupt.
    Just think about it. If HardwareGeek was in charge of deciding what sites were listed in the computer hardware category, how can he be anything but corrupt? (just using you as an example Geek).
    I would say a few of the editors are most likely on the up and up, but I bet good money that 50% or more are not. That is why the usefulness of this directory is at an all time low and it is quickly becoming a joke.
    Well, that is bupkus... to say that someone with interest and expertise in a topic will automatically be corrupt. People edit topics they are interested in and have knowledge about. I would be no good editing an automotive parts topic, but have considered applying to edit pet related topics. Problem in the past was not enough time, problem now is I don't want to visit sites and find nasties getting d/l'd to my computer.

    I do run several niche directories of my own, that were started 3 years ago using DMOZ info as the base, that have grown and evolved as people add and update thier own listings. My directories have many, many affiliate and sites that are my direct competition listed in them, right next to my affiliate product listings.

    Some DMOZ editors are abusing the power, I won't argue with that, but to say anyone editing a category that they have a vested interest in is going to be corrupt is a broad, dangerous statement.
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  22. #22
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Well, I suppose it can't be overstated that when you deal with a Human Edited Directory, there will be Human Related Problems. It's impossible to say unilaterally that the editors are bad or good.

    What becomes an issue, of course, is that it does carry some importance in getting you in the SERP's.

    It would be great if they had a Board of Directors that approved sites as a group (maybe they do, I'm no expert..). But if you look at the sheer voume of good sites, ok sites, and crappy sites that get thrown at them on a daily basis, one wonders how they manage to function at all.

    What might also be interesting is if someone started a quality directory based on SERPs from something like Dogpile. You know, review for quality the Top 100 unique websites returned by a meta engine, and include them based on merit.

    Maybe it's already out there. I'm in affiliate marketing because I'm a salesman, not because I'm a web expert...

  23. #23
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    - - - - - -
    I've said it before and I'll say it again - the basic rules with DMOZ are to find the CORRECT category to submit to, submit a well-thought out entry that conforms with the GUIDELINES and is in the style of other listings and then FORGET ABOUT IT and get on with promoting your site in all the other ways you can manage.
    - - - - - -

    Dynamoo, this where you and I differ in regards to dmoz. Because of the weight google and other directories give dmoz, ignoring dmoz is like ignoring what your ppc money is being spent on, or market conditions for items you want to stock. It is an intrinsic part of one's business, and just because dmmoz says, 'so what', that doesn't make it any less intrinsic.

    If my competitor is in there, and I am not, then I am not playing on a level playing field, I will be less profitable. DMOZ prides itself on not answering emails and not notifying webmasters when their sites are deemed for some reason to be rejected.

    I do not 'forget' about any other aspect of the internet that affects my profitability, why should I 'forget' about dmoz?
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  24. #24
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    why should I 'forget' about dmoz?
    Cuz d-blows, well...blows... and it'll help protect your sanity and/or your blood pressure, to ignore them as much as possible.

    Well, that is bupkus... to say that someone with interest and expertise in a topic will automatically be corrupt.~Loxly
    It's not a matter of interest and expertise. He said that someone else WITH A SITE in their dmoz category would be corrupt.

    I agree with Scooter; when the editor has a site of their own in the category, it's a flagrant conflict of interest at best.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  25. #25
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I do not 'forget' about any other aspect of the internet that affects my profitability, why should I 'forget' about dmoz?
    Because there's really nothing you can do once the submission is in. Just make sure that the submission is a really good one.. the easier you make life for the editor, the more likely you are to be listed quickly.

    Part of the argument here is almost self contradictory. The meta editors at the ODP try their best to weed out other editors who might have a possible conflict of interest (so these keeps the possibility of corruption down).. unfortunately, the flipside is that there aren't enough editors for the work that needs to be done. Allowing untested editors in to sensitive categories is not the solution.

    But look.. there are plenty of other directories too, and although they don't carry the link authority, they do tend to be an awful lot quicker to list you.
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

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