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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Update on GoldenCan and LinkShare
    Can we get an update from LinkShare on the status of future GoldenCan merchant access at LS?

    Getting a final answer on this seems to be taking a painfully long time. It's time to have stuff up for the Christmas buying season and LS is just sitting on their hands on this issue (while the Messers make millions in a buy out deal).
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  2. #2
    Newbie at tooting my own horn M_Diddy's Avatar
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    Ron,

    I gotta tell you as a Marketer.....I don't feel comfortable at all with this Golden Can stuff, honestly......I just don't, and there is no way that I would ever jump into doing stuff with them until all is investigated and approved.

    This is a complete trust issue and I think LS is doing the right thing by taking their time, this isnt a rush rush thing...so my opinion is when they do it....they do it.....How can you expect them to drop whatever they are doing to find ways to integrate golden can.....it is completely irresponsible, it may not even be in our best interests...who knows.....time will tell.

    But dude.....you need to settle down.

    M

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Diddy,

    Valid points indeed...I'd just like LS to keep us updated.

    Of course, they did say no changes until after the end of the year. I expect that includes GoldenCan.

    (Yes, I read your posts when I can understand them)
    Last edited by Ron Bechdolt; September 16th, 2005 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Funny, as I was writing this post, guess what ad was at the bottom? Yep, GoldenCan!
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    No changes until Q1 ok

    Messer et co can spend 5 months on the $425million deal but can't get a team to ok goldencan so affiliates and merchants can't earn more in Q4? Typical linkshare!

    This circle jerk with Asif has been going on for about 4 of the 5 months and other services that use similar technology (for implementing the aff code) are live and running without any hindrance or delay on LS. Odd no? Even stranger ... CJ has no problem with Asif / Golden can I wonder why?

    [Thread Closed until Q1 - just wanted you all to know the facts because it is, as Mdiddy says -"This is a complete trust issue" and quite frankly, there is none from me with LS in this matter. ]
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  5. #5
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    the good folks at LS will just have to cool their heels with the rest of us until this gets figured out.

    meanwhile, let's go make money for the folks in the enlightened networks.




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  6. #6
    Newbie at tooting my own horn M_Diddy's Avatar
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    I hate to tell you this.....but LinkShare can do whatever they choose to....they don't have to be fair to external technology....it is their own perrogative.

    Furthermore....what they decide to do behind their doors is their business...the way I look at it is if they were to endorse GoldenCan, Asif or whatever his name is would sure get access to a lot of affiliates pretty quickly by the endorsement, which would mean a lil bit of money.

    The "FACT" of all of this is that LinkShare doesnt have to do Squat for GoldenCan, bottom line its their choice.

    I personally don't see the relationship between them selling the company having any relevance to GoldenCan

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Not commenting on the GoldenCan issue, but just wanted to say it sure is fun watching Mr. Messer reading all these posts today. LS is hearing all our comments today, right up to the penthouse office.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  8. #8
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7-days
    Not commenting on the GoldenCan issue, but just wanted to say it sure is fun watching Mr. Messer reading all these posts today. LS is hearing all our comments today, right up to the penthouse office.
    I've noticed that too. His 'nads aren't big enough to reply though.


  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador LinkShare Moderator's Avatar
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    All,
    As I've said in other posts, we will update everyone on GoldenCAN when we have determined if and how we can move forward with Asif in a way that addresses our original concerns with his model. We are committed to developing a way for 3rd parties to build on top of our technology. When we are ready to share more on our plans and on GoldenCAN specifically, we will. In the meantime, I have asked Asif to provide me with some additional information that we need in order to evaluate GoldenCAN and determine how it might work within our current and new link structure. I am waiting for Asif to provide that information.

    Also, please keep in mind that just because there are other 3rd party tools working with LinkShare merchants and affiliates, it does not mean they are doing so with our explicit approval or knowledge. If any 3rd party assumes they know everything about how our technology works and makes changes to the links without our knowledge, future updates to our technology may cause problems that we cannot foresee or control.

    Also, to reiterate what I've posted before, the statement about changes in Q4 was made in the context of the Rakuten acquisition announcement. Meaning, we are not planning changes to our business in Q4 as a result of the change in ownership. It's business as usual for Q4 and the current LinkShare team remains in place and focused on the holiday season.

    However, we do have SynergyAnalytics design changes and improvements in the works which may or may not be put into production before we hit our typical holiday lock down for major technology changes. In addition, we are at the end stages of testing the newest software version for SynergyAnalytics which supports other browsers. We do hope to roll out the new version before year end. There are other development projects in the works as well which may or may not be implemented before year end. As changes are scheduled for production, we will communicate them.

    Kelli

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll stop nagging. Just think this is taking way too long...

    Oh, was that another nag? Darn, sorry about that....they just slip out so easily.

    Thanks for clarifying the "no changes in Q4" statement. I knew that would come back to haunt you if you didn't.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  11. #11
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinkShare Moderator
    As I've said in other posts, we will update everyone on GoldenCAN when we have determined if and how we can move forward with Asif in a way that addresses our original concerns with his model.


    Can you specifically identify to the group what those concerns are? Weiss and Keting didn't know them nor do I, so please explain.



    We are committed to developing a way for 3rd parties to build on top of our technology.


    Really? Ok what specific steps has LS done towards this end? Can you show us any examples? Is their a white paper that I can download? Are their SDKs or APIs?



    In the meantime, I have asked Asif to provide me with some additional information that we need in order to evaluate GoldenCAN and determine how it might work within our current and new link structure.


    Am I safe in assuming that the same requests have been sent to other 3rd partys? I mean the new link structure should also work with them as well right? Can you also be so kind as to list these other third parties so that we [affiliates] know that links or sites generated with such applications or tools will be in complaince with the new and existing Linkshare Link structure?



    Also, please keep in mind that just because there are other 3rd party tools working with LinkShare merchants and affiliates, it does not mean they are doing so with our explicit approval or knowledge.

    Well if your ...

    We are committed to developing a way for 3rd parties to build on top of our technology.
    I'm sure you'll provide them with the appropriate white papers and resources, support team and the such to properly work with you. RIGHT?

    If any 3rd party assumes they know everything about how our technology works and makes changes to the links without our knowledge, future updates to our technology may cause problems that we cannot foresee or control.
    And, of course, this is why you are going to list of third parties that you are / have been working with to ensure compliance with existing and new link technologies, as requested above.

    Thank you.

    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Since Mdiddy opened a new thread and the LS moderator answered in it I'm merging the two threads together to better keep the topic intact.
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; September 17th, 2005 at 06:08 PM.

  13. #13
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I've split out M Diddy's meltdown and the other off-topic posts. Let's keep this thread on topic.
    Michael Coley
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  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Let's hope that Linkshare, now flush with cash, no longer has to play the smoke and mirrors games between their Super Affiliates,including all S/W affiliates automated through LS server API's and auto updated feeds, and the normal domain bound affiliates using normal link codes.

    Seems like Linkshare is placing GoldenCan into a special category of affiliate creatives. Those which only benefit domain bound affiliates and pre-click focusing of consumers, with no value in leveraging of SERPs -PPCSE direct to merchant abuse -e-mail or browser spamming. Basically the AM's running Linkshare's internal merchant management program feel GC doesn't benefit their Supers, e-mail spammers, BHO browser spammers and their own SEO/SEM campaigns. Therefore the commission draining shysters ruling the roost pressure LS to keep GoldenCan in limbo this Christmas shopping season.

    The commission monopoly forces want nothing to do with upping the conversion ratio potential of domain bound affiliates. They live off mass reach, cookie washing & stuffing, BHO popups and well devised and integrated comparison shopping sites with LS's product feed engine.

    My advice is for Asif & GoldenCan to legally pull out the big gun to stop the stonewalling. Asif has enough clickstream sampling across a broad range of network merchants to get permission to openly publish the GC conversion ratio for each merchant using his application. My assumption is Super Affiliate GoldenCan better focuses & targets shoppers before the click then any other affiliate, leveraging both products and coupons/deals. Therefore the conversion ratio on GC's 25% of click/cookie/sales totals should be a Revelation for the whole industry. It should show the best case average conversion ratio we can expect from each network and each merchant on pure on page creatives. No one before has bothered to publish this most vital of all stats legitimizing the value-add domain bound affiliate in the eyes of the advertisers willing to reward better targeted traffic then they can purchase elsewhere.

    Go ahead Asif and publish your 25% share GC conversion stats. Us affiliates using GC have no way of identifying a GC sale from a regular page creative link display. If GC converts better then other creatives both merchants and affiliates will flock to it and quell any network stalling to interface with your script. GC supporters will demand and receive network cooperation to enhance the application and interface all reporting to make sure GC sales track.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  15. #15
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    I totally get why Kelli isn't commenting on GoldenCan. this is something that came along, they were willing to test it, but it got out of LS control. They are changing something that will disrupt GC.

    imagine everyone runs to Asif (haven't talked to the guy myself), and starts a huge wave. with the upcoming changes, LS couldn't do squat. They would be stuck with the old technology since so many affiliates adopted GC.

    They want to make dough. If they thought that GC could payoff long term, and it didn't cost them something else, they would go with it. They aren't stupid.

    But there must be something else. Just because they want to be quite about what ever it is they want to do, doesn't mean they are interested. more than likely, they ain't ready.

    But when Ron & Haiko start pushing on Kelli, Weiss, & Keating, I don't think its going to help anyone.

    read Von Klauswitz (sp?) about frontal attacks : they suck as a good strategy.

  16. #16
    Newbie at tooting my own horn M_Diddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    I've split out M Diddy's meltdown and the other off-topic posts. Let's keep this thread on topic.
    M Diddy's Meltdown??? I would say thats a lil risque for a moderator.....but whatever.

    If it is up to me I would rather have LS tighten up their links instead of investing time and energy into the goldencan or any other third party stuff.

    Personally I am getting fed up of people stealing my offers and apparantly this new linking structure would protect that.

    Also Demo man has a very valid point....usually does...about the technology changing....I'll be back.....wife is goin on

  17. #17
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolition Man
    I totally get why Kelli isn't commenting on GoldenCan.
    Do you? She posted on the 16th, that doesn't qualify as not comenting.

    this is something that came along, they were willing to test it, but it got out of LS control.
    No Linkshare's priority switched to selling the company not improving it.

    They are changing something that will disrupt GC.
    No they are changing something that will hopefully rectify most of the transactions that don't get credited because of being blocked by Norton and the such. IMO Norton should shut your doors with an IP block not a domain base block ... but then ... shit, it would be my fault (for posting it), not Linkshare's because they DIDN'T stop the blocking or think of that. Admit it, norton could shut down the HMS$425 loliipod in seconds with an IP block and LS has no damn way of protecting agtainst it and is a dead stick. 40% of transactions lost is nothing when it becomes 90 or higher, I doubt Rakutan thought of that ... ohio gozi masu! (phonetically written and spelled bad)

    imagine everyone runs to Asif (haven't talked to the guy myself), and starts a huge wave. with the upcoming changes, LS couldn't do squat.
    LS wouldn't even if they wanted to ... look at the SA Beta - few weeks becomes 10 months! Obviously Asif would make the necessary changes to met Linkshare's technology changes - as would the other third party tool makers (see my post above asking for the SOP and white papers demonstrating LS's "dedication" to third party apps).

    They want to make dough. If they thought that GC could payoff long term, and it didn't cost them something else, they would go with it. They aren't stupid.
    Yes, I've already identified that it costs $5K just to get started with the DRM, your right Linkshare want's to make dough ... they aren't stupid, but who looses ... merchants and affiliates - it's Q4! But Messer et co got theirs so F the rest, yeah we know - it's linkshare!

    But there must be something else. Just because they want to be quite about what ever it is they want to do, doesn't mean they are interested. more than likely, they ain't ready.
    Well besides your spin and back talk ... ummm yeah there is something else ... Linkshare doesn't know what they are doing with the link obfuscation, that's why they farmed it out to a third party, just like every thing else - synergy analytics consolidated payments, etc. So once they [Linkshare] are told what to do they'll figure out what to say. Untill then tough nuggies and have noob posters take shots.

    But when Ron & Haiko start pushing on Kelli, Weiss, & Keating, I don't think its going to help anyone.
    Ron pushed. Haiko asked Weiss and Keating and they said they don't know what the issue is and they'd get back to me, they never did ... so Linkshare either needs to stop bathing in $100 bills and get back to running a company instead of circle jerking affs, because what is happening now isn't benefiting anyone but Messer et co.

    read Von Klauswitz (sp?) about frontal attacks : they suck as a good strategy.
    F*** Von Klauswhatever, read the boards --- Linkshare is down, sales not tracked and poor response and sales are blocked ... Do you think that is a good stategy? Shit, put down your strategy books and get REAL!

    Read, don't spin, cut the lies and make the shit work, then you've earned your money and we can earn ours. Sigma six that and call me in the morning -- so I can tell you again - get on the ball it's Q4!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M_Diddy
    M Diddy's Meltdown??? I would say thats a lil risque for a moderator
    And I would say that's payback ... for your "looks like a p*nis with glases" and the rest, life "works" that way. That being said, I thought you left our little sand box, but thanks for at least staying true [shill], just don't make me push the button, you know my rules, abide by them.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  19. #19
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolition Man
    They are changing something that will disrupt GC.
    Actually, nobody knows what their changes will disrupt. We've been told that the old style links will continue to function. If their changes disrupt GC, they'll disrupt far more than just GC. Myself, I'm sick and tired of LinkShare "enhancements" that always seem to make things harder for me.
    Michael Coley
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  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Haiko whats your view on Asif publishing his merchants conversion ratio when using GC targeting. It's pure page bound clicks and if the networks can track normal feed coded links they can track GC. Between discounters Sierra and Overstock duking it out in crossover categories, their GC conversion ratio should be a very telling stat. Regardless of the cookie stuffers, incenters, e-mail spammers and the BHO white noise popups ...GoldenCan traffic has to convert better then their normal domain bound links. Either that, or the tricks for forced clicks crowd has so ruined these two ( Overstock's Live Help whacks conversions equally), that neither warrant or deserve any real domain bound showcasing.

    Linkshare hasn't the balls to publish their merchant's networkwide conversion stats. I've begged them for this since the original CoC summit. Asif can weigh the recruiting and PR value, with both affiliates and Merchants not yet using GC, and decide to publish the conversion stats. If he read and digested my SafeHaven Network model, he'd know merchnats & affiliates will only be inspired to improve that affiliate targeted conversion ratio, if their actual level playing field stat is published.

    I'll support any network or anyone wanting to legitimize GoldenCan by certifying the GC application works for them. As far as the Ditty adjenda... and this guy has one.... it doesn't have any sway on my commitment. I'm immune to his adjenda as it would requirem I assume an ajenda. I'm not crafty & greedy enough to game the system.... even if I knew how!
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  21. #21
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Publishing stats would be a quick way for Asif to get on the outs with LinkShare. Keep in mind, that's one of the main things that got AffTrack.com in trouble with LinkShare. Besides, aren't they only working with two LinkShare merchants for now?
    Michael Coley
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  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Publishing stats would be a quick way for Asif to get on the outs with LinkShare. Keep in mind, that's one of the main things that got AffTrack.com in trouble with LinkShare. Besides, aren't they only working with two LinkShare merchants for now?
    Michael those two are over exposed with or without GC. Other merchants and AM's or successful affiliates know that. Publishing their conversion stats is a no brainer for them as it shows they convert. (Stat= # of clicks to produce one sale.) This will guarantee them more affiliate page exposure as most will assume that conversion ratio applies to regular Linkshare coded creatives. Win-Win for these 2.

    Now other AM's and merchants, not using GC now, will see the recruiting and page exposure flow goes to the GC merchants due to some guarantee of results. Affiliates will automatically try to better the published average conversion stat... even I'd have to go to work on my site Heck I'd make my site so beautiful and practical someone would want to copy it!
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    Haiko whats your view on Asif publishing his merchants conversion ratio when using GC targeting
    I really don't think the fourth click, at this time, accounts for enough trafiic to get any solid numbers from it, additionally the ercentage traffic that is natuarally blocked by Norton etc can't be taken into account so I'd say the entire equation, no matter how anyone tries to manipulate it as it would be easilly skewed.

    GoldenCan traffic has to convert better then their normal domain bound links.
    Well yes, but ... Norton etc still blocks network tags, GC will not aid in that aspect, networks need to fix that, not GC or other third arty tools.

    Linkshare hasn't the balls to
    I'll stop you there ... yes they don't and they never will have to ... remember $425MM???? Smoke and Mirrors rule --- obviously!


    if their actual level playing field stat is published.
    Mike, not to be rude, but don't you see SAHS et co. still in Linkshare?

    There is no level playing field!

    There is only bs and smoke / mirrors like 10 months of beta of synergy analytics, noob posters bs'ing and a company that spent 5 months to sell the company ... not improve it. (FACTS PEOPLE FACTS!)

    So please stop thinking that they will wake up and smell the damn coffee ... they won't --- and, they don't have to ... there are 425 million reasons why, they will not.

    Merchants have been calling me on my cell asking where to go because they see as their affs have .... get the hell out of dodge ...

    The sushi is ROTTEN!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Grumpy's Avatar
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    Doesn't this affect Overstock?
    Something occurred to me this weekend.... does the current LS position on GoldenCan also apply to the Overstock store integration? Being a LS merchant, wouldn't Overstock be implicated as well - if so, is it wise to use GoldenCan/Overstock right now? Anyone know what the situation is?

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy
    Something occurred to me this weekend.... does the current LS position on GoldenCan also apply to the Overstock store integration? Being a LS merchant, wouldn't Overstock be implicated as well - if so, is it wise to use GoldenCan/Overstock right now? Anyone know what the situation is?
    It's like pulling teeth to get Overstock to even reply once a month to the thousands of of ABWers posts whining about their plummeting conversion ratio. They must have the Linkshare master commission monopoly plan in hand fortifying their position with the mass reach Super Affiliates. My humble GC stats show over 7000 page views. Would be nice to see impression/click ratios and the all telling sales generated stats for any and all merchants regardless of GC clicks facing the same problems incurred by plain network links. Basically GC operates like a spam & blackhat free CPA network or Super Affiliate. If they don't violate any Addendium, CoC or TOS provisions Linkshare cannot legally deny them networkwide exposure.

    Since no Linkshare Professional Management employee (network AM firm) is allowed to post here I can assume they feel GC threatens their commission con-men base. If they object to publishing GC merchant conversion stats then I double my cry for GC to do just this. Someone is trying to hide the real contribution GC and domain bound affiliates make to the overall network sales figures.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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