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  1. #1
    CPA Network Rep Jon@Fluxads's Avatar
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    Question Ephedra
    Anyone use any products with ephedra? Thoughts? I use Stackers 3...like it. mixed with red bull makes my heart feel like its in a marathon though.

    Gotta do what I gotta do to keep me motivated to work from 5am - 5pm and throw a workout in there somewhere.

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Ummm ....

    Consumer Alert: FDA Plans Regulation Prohibiting Sale of Ephedra-Containing Dietary Supplements and Advises Consumers to Stop Using These Products


    The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is alerting the public to its forthcoming determination that dietary supplements containing ephedra present an unreasonable risk of illness or injury, and should not be consumed. The agency has notified firms manufacturing and marketing these products that it intends to issue a final rule prohibiting their sale, which will become effective 60 days after its publication.

    The FDA has taken this step after conducting an exhaustive and highly resource-intensive process required under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994 for banning a dietary supplement that presents a significant and unreasonable risk to human health.

    To meet this challenging standard, the FDA gathered and thoroughly reviewed a prodigious amount of evidence about ephedra's pharmacology; clinical studies of ephedra's safety and effectiveness; newly available adverse events reports; the published literature; and a seminal report by the RAND Corporation, an independent scientific institute. The FDA also reviewed tens of thousands of public comments on the agency's request in February, 2003 for information about ephedra-associated health risks.

    The totality of the available data showed little evidence of ephedra's effectiveness except for short-term weight loss, while confirming that the substance raises blood pressure and otherwise stresses the circulatory system. These reactions have been conclusively linked to significant adverse health outcomes, including heart ailments and strokes.

    By informing more than 60 dietary supplement firms about the upcoming final rule, FDA is sending a strong and unambiguous signal that dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids present an unreasonable risk. Consumers are urged to stop buying and using these products immediately.

    Ephedra, also called Ma Huang, is a naturally occurring substance derived from botanicals. Its principal active ingredient is ephedrine, which when chemically synthesized is regulated under the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act of 1938 as a drug. In contrast to the DSHEA-regulated dietary supplements that contain natural ephedra, the safety and effectiveness of the synthesized ephedrine has to be proven by the manufacturer, not the FDA. In recent years ephedra products have been extensively promoted for aiding weight control and boosting sports performance and energy.

    Today's announcement is a continuation of a process that started in June, 1997 when FDA first proposed to require a statement on dietary supplements with ephedra warning that they are hazardous and should not be used for more than 7 days. FDA modified this proposed rule in 2000, and in February 2003 it announced a series of measures that included strong enforcement actions against firms making unsubstantiated claims for their ephedra-containing products.

    These measures have prompted voluntary compliance with FDA rules, voluntary product recalls, FDA warning letters, seizures and injunctions, criminal actions, and joint enforcement actions with the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice. (More detail on these actions can be found at http://www.fda.gov/ola/2003/dietarysupplements 1028.html]). As a result, ephedra-containing dietary supplements advertised for enhanced sport performance have been removed from the market, there has been a significant decline in the demand for ephedra products, and many firms have stopped their marketing.

    Additional information relating to today's announcement is available online at www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-ephed.html.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
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  3. #3
    CPA Network Rep Jon@Fluxads's Avatar
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    haha. yea...i suppose their is just cause for banning ephedra for the period of time they did. but i think if taken moderately and carefully and inform your doctor you are doing so for any advice he or she may give...it really is a good stimulant for weight loss...energy...and recovery for work outs.

    i was just hoping to find out if anyone else has experience with ephedra and perhaps uses it as a replacement for coffee in the morning as i do.

  4. #4
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    I have in the past. I just started up again off and on (had some bottles of Trim Spa stashed from before I got pregnant). I love the stuff. Of course I always take half the dose - I always found that did it for me, and even before all the hub-bub around it, I didn't like to overdue meds, herbal or not. That was the first thing I used in my adult life that actually worked for weight loss, so it is near and dear to my heart.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  5. #5
    Ms Dumb Ass ... but, *NOT* Today! westgroup's Avatar
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    It's good to see the store shelves filled with it. It should be the consumer not the govt. dictates which supplements they take.

    If anything they should ban butter. It's much worse for you (but I love it & won't do without it)

  6. #6
    Affiliate Manager Raphie_B's Avatar
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    The ban has been lifted, at least temporarily (and, for that matter, was still legally available for use as a bronchodialator even during the period of the ban)...
    Looks like that FDA article Haiko quoted is at least 18 months old...
    There are certainly arguments to be made for both sides of this debate, but I can say with certainty that those consumers who like ephedra are very very happy to have relatively easy access to it once again.

  7. #7
    CPA Network Rep Jon@Fluxads's Avatar
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    It's definitely nice not worrying about my bottles of stackers 3 getting snagged up during delivery and me getting in trouble. Originally the ban on ephedra was in california and then nationwide. However, I was able to find a source located in NYC who would sell me bottles and ship them pretty well sealed across country. I'm happy to not have to go through all that trouble...for energy/diet pills.

    Ephedra is bad, but there are much worse things out there that are consumed legally everyday that could harm you or kill you a lot easier then ephedra.

    this stuff does work, weather you are looking for energy or to lose weight...it certainly helps.

    Damn Jared and his subway diet...i'll stick with me and my Stackers diet. Eat all the crap I want and have a Stackers pill right after. (Speed up the metabolism)

  8. #8
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mess with it. There are a lot of ephedra-free suppliments similar in effect to the ephedra-based ones...

    Geno

  9. #9
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    Ephedra can be a great supplement when used the way it is intended to be used and used responsibly by the consumer. Responsibly being the keyword here.
    mixed with red bull makes my heart feel like its in a marathon though.

  10. #10
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    I've just read that the ban on Ephedra is bogus. The FDA doesn't like anything "natural" that their cohorts, the pharm. and drug companies can't make a killing on. Never used it but if it's natural, in moderation should be safe and OK. Anything natural is always way better than a drug. Legal drugs will kill tou.
    Peace,

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  11. #11
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    I agree it's bogus. Anything you misuse could potentially harm or kill you. Hell, you can overdose on Vitamin A! And I think it's interesting that most of the cases where they believe ephedra caused damage or killed people seem to be teens and young people. "Oh my God! I gained 2 pounds! I have to get rid of it by prom night!" as they cram an overdose of ephedra in.... Let's be honest, it hasn't been that long since I was a teen...better judgement is not in the mental makeup of teens most of the time....

    And I tried the ephedra free version of Trim Spa...didn't do jack. Of course maybe there are other ephedra alternatives that work, but I wouldn't know what they are.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    In 2000, JAMA (the Journal of the American Medical Association) reported that there were 106,000 deaths in the U.S. due to adverse reactions from medications.

    Compare this to the 155 deaths directly linked to ephedra usage (a federal judge later determined this number to be 5).

    I suspect that there are forces at work here who are more concerned with profit margins than with the public's safety, and although I agree that ephedra has a huge potential for abuse, I also know that being obese carries its own health risks. I would prefer the right to choose my risk factors.

  13. #13
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steele
    ...although I agree that ephedra has a huge potential for abuse, I also know that being obese carries its own health risks. I would prefer the right to choose my risk factors.
    True enough. However, again: if it can mess up your heart (an important part of you, BTW), I'd say: stay away from it.

    Geno

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    Yeah Geno, I had sort of figured out that one's heart carries some importance to one's overall health.....Any idea what kind of strain being overweight has on it?

    5 deaths have been directly linked to ephedra usage......

    obesity related deaths - estimated at between 300,000 and 400,000 annually.

  15. #15
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steele
    Yeah Geno, I had sort of figured out that one's heart carries some importance to one's overall health.....Any idea what kind of strain being overweight has on it?

    5 deaths have been directly linked to ephedra usage......

    obesity related deaths - estimated at between 300,000 and 400,000 annually.
    Steele, like I said before there are always good alternatives to taking ephedra-based supplements. For example, Xenadrine has great ephedrine free alternative to Xenadrine NRG. It is totaly without ephedra, and given great results. Tested and proven.

    Geno

  16. #16
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I'm not saying this is the case here, but often people say "Oh, it's natural so it can't hurt you and there are no side effects." That's often a false premise. Just because something is natural doesn't mean that it can't hurt you and doesn't mean that there are no side effects.
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  17. #17
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Just because something is natural doesn't mean that it can't hurt you...
    It can and most likely will (in case with ephedra).

    Geno

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    For example, Xenadrine has great ephedrine free alternative to Xenadrine NRG. It is totaly without ephedra, and given great results. Tested and proven.

    Proven by the very people who are trying to sell you on their product perhaps? Don't believe every ad you read.

    I've been selling nutritional supplements for over 10 years now and have never once had a customer tell me that the ephedra-free products give them any discernible increase in energy levels nor do they lose weight at anything close to the same rate.

  19. #19
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steele
    I've been selling nutritional supplements for over 10 years now and have never once had a customer tell me that the ephedra-free products give them any discernible increase in energy levels nor do they lose weight at anything close to the same rate.
    I don't sell this stuff, Steele, and have no reason to take stand for any side in this discussion. However, there was a time in my life when I tried ephedra-free Xenadrine and lost a lot. It worked for me (in combination with a lot of workout though). And, my friend, trust me, I've learned not to "believe every ad you read". In fact, I don't believe 99.9999% of diet-themed ads. I just know that ephedra can mess with your heart, and health (as mentioned elsewhere on this forum) is one of my top 3 priorities in life.

    Have a great week, everyone!

    Geno

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    I guess we'll just agree to disagree Geno. Lots of things are bad for your heart - coffee, cigarettes, excess alcohol, saturated fats, and the list goes on.

    I find it interesting that the FDA and you are eager to jump on the "ephedra kills" bandwagon which has been directly linked to 5 deaths in the U.S., while turning a blind eye to the many thousands of deaths caused by OTC's and the many perils we face in our diets. But hey, it's trendy to hate ephedra and easy to blindly follow the press.

    Here are some more stats:

    Deaths from ephedra - 5
    Deaths from adverse reactions to ion meds in 2002 - 106,000

    I have taken ephedra, and health is one of my top 3 priorities as well, in fact health is what I do for a living.

    And yes, everyone have a good week.

  21. #21
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steele
    5 deaths have been directly linked to ephedra usage......

    obesity related deaths - estimated at between 300,000 and 400,000 annually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steele
    Deaths from ephedra - 5
    Deaths from adverse reactions to ion meds in 2002 - 106,000
    You're comparing apples to oranges here.

    With the 150 other deaths that you're not considering, how many could Ephedra have been a contributing factor, even if it wasn't the primary confirmed cause?

    What percent of people in the US have taken ephedra on a regular basis for an extended period of time? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 1,000? What age and health are they? I suspect that most are young and in relatively good health (for now), as opposed to those who are obese or taking ion drugs.

    What percent of people in the US are obese? 30%? Even at that, you're comparing "confirmed" numbers with "estimated" numbers.

    What percent of people take ion drugs on a regular basis? 40-50%? With many of the deaths from ion drugs, it's a known risk that was weighed against the risks of not treating a disease or condition.

    If we compared apples to apples, I think there may be cause for alarm.
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  22. #22
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Steele has the same information I do on Ephedra and while I do not take it or any other diet aids, I will back him up on this one 100%.

    Ephedra worked and caused alarm in the medical industry because it did. It was attacked because it's "natural" and drug companies cannot patten a natural "cure" or remedy. This is why you will hear and read about the horrors of "natural" remedies, which are much less likely to harm your health than a synthetic drug or OTC medication that drug companies can patten and thus make a killing on financially. Scary stuff and a whole other argument.

    Steele, my father is a holstic doctor. I was raised with information that is just now coming to light about the FDA, pharm. and medical industries. It's a tough sell but one I am committed to and try to expose in any way I can. :-)

    As for dieters, the best and easiest way to lose weight is to eat a diet of plenty of fresh veggies, fruit and lean protein, combined with exercise and movement, even if it's just walking up and down stairs when given a choice between an escalator, elevator or stairs. Any additional movement you can add to your routine will help drop weight and also help your heart.

    Good luck.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    You're comparing apples to oranges here.
    I'm comparing causes of death here. The mortality causes are extrapolated from statistics based on the findings of American coroners.

    With the 150 other deaths that you're not considering, how many could Ephedra have been a contributing factor, even if it wasn't the primary confirmed cause?
    And how many could have nicotene, caffeine, saturated fat, sugar, various sundry chemicals, and so on as a contributing factor?

    What percent of people in the US have taken ephedra on a regular basis for an extended period of time?
    Because ephedra/ephedrine-based supplements sales are not documented in the same manner as ions (i.e. percentage of population using, duration of use) that is obviously impossible to answer (but then again, you knew that). I can tell you that 10 billion servings of ephedra/ephedrine-based diet supplements were sold in the U.S. in the year 2000, so draw your own conclusions from that.

    Insofar as "confirmed" vs "estimated" numbers is concerned, feel free to err on whatever side you choose, the bottom line is that removing ephedrine from the marketplace (except from OTC cold medications) does not appear so much an effort to protect the public safety as it does to protect the interests of the pharmaceutical giants and is a knee-jerk reaction to the press coverage this topic received.

    Ephedra, from which ephedrine is extracted, has a long history of usage. Like most things in life, if abused, there is potential for harm. If you start removing all of the things in life that have a potential for harm, you should call for a return to prohibition, have fast-food outlets banned, make contact sports illegal..... see how silly it becomes?

  24. #24
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    It's been a while since we've heard FluxAds.com here. Hope he/she appreciates the discussion. Unless, of course, Steele paid him to start this to be able to sell his product.

    I agree with you on many points of your arguing, Steele. However, if anything taken "on a regular basis for an extended period of time" has a potential to harm you (and not only just harm you, but bring about death) - be it ephedra or alcohol, saturated fats or cigarettes - I'd rather stay away from it than play with it.

    Geno

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    LOL.... Sorry to blow your conspiracy theory out of the water Geno, but I'm in Canada, and ephedra/ephedrine is not allowed in nutritional supplements here.

    Nice try tho

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