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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Arrow I was wrong.
    All,

    My intentions with the Katrina forum were only just and fair, but politics overtaking the forum so I cleaned out the threads and spcifically asked that political threads be posted in the political forum. Well then more politics, racism, and over generalization of southerners / people of color started material was posted and a thread was split.

    I then got a complaint (warranted) and another poster was upset that their post was moved into the politcal forum when it shouldn't have been (once again warranted) so in an effort to stop political or racist postings I closed the Katrina forum. However, the racist and bigot posts stayed in the political forum and that was wrong as well because, now I had given the posters who forced the creation of the political forum and moving of threads a place to continue while my initial impetus -> to help and share in messages of hope and human kindness during this horrible tradgedy was now closed.

    A member said to me -
    All I know is that this kind of sh!t would never be allowed (and wasn't) regarding 9/11. Nor was it for OK City bombing, after the space shuttle explosions nor any of the other tradegies faced by the US or other countries.
    ... which is true and warranted, but aditionally they proport ...

    if the Katrina forum is read only then all discussions related to hurricane katrina should be banned from the board.
    ... which is only "fair".

    ABestWeb's subject matter is Affiliate Marketing and all else is secondary, as such I've decided to end the political forum as well.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  2. #2
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
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    Thank you Haiko and mods for making some tough decisions.

    It's a damn shame that Katrina had to be shut down. I sure don't mind the political forum being closed.

    There's always plenty of room on the "wrong" bench. We've all left our butt-prints on it many a time.

  3. #3
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Why don't you start another "Talk Politics" forum entirely separate from ABW? You already have a core group of posters who would be interested which is a lot more than most people have when they open a new forum.

    You opened ABW with probably fewer posters than were signed up for the politics forum and look how big it got.

    If you don't want to run it, yourself, I am sure you can team up with someone good who would do that. I can think of one person, at least, here who would do an outstanding job of running it and I am sure there are many who would.

    Sounds like opportunity knocking to me.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    Why don't you start another "Talk Politics" forum entirely separate from ABW? You already have a core group of posters who would be interested which is a lot more than most people have when they open a new forum.

    You opened ABW with probably fewer posters than were signed up for the politics forum and look how big it got.

    If you don't want to run it, yourself, I am sure you can team up with someone good who would do that. I can think of one person, at least, here who would do an outstanding job of running it and I am sure there are many who would.

    Sounds like opportunity knocking to me.

    Sounds like Ssanf should start one herself. As she says opportunity knocking. And I know she needs the additional income and has plenty of time on her hands.

    Or why not post over at Moveon or another political forum?

    Poop for the day.
    Poopie.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    No apology needed in my direction. IMHO - Good Move.

    Fred

  6. #6
    Internet Cowboy
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    The Katrina forum seemed to bring out the worst in everyone, no matter what side of the fence you are on. The Katrina issue is yet another example of how incredibly divided this country is right now...and that is frightening.
    "Divided we fall" is not just song lyrics.
    I say good move on canning the Katrina forum as well as the political forum, but a separate political forum seems like a good idea since you already have a base of users.

    Posting at Move-on, DNC, RNC, Drudge or anywhere else is all good, but you have a group of interconnected people who "know" each other and would most likely use a political forum out up by you. AffiliatePolitics.com


  7. #7
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=UncleScooter]The Katrina issue is yet another example of how incredibly divided this country is right now...and that is frightening.
    "Divided we fall" is not just song lyrics.

    Amen.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  8. #8
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie Nubert
    Sounds like Ssanf should start one herself. As she says opportunity knocking. And I know she needs the additional income and has plenty of time on her hands.

    Or why not post over at Moveon or another political forum?

    Poop for the day.
    Poopie.
    SSanf knows herself well enough to know she is not objective enough and would be a poor candidate for running such a forum with a steady, even hand which it would require.

    A smart person knows their own limitations.

    I think ABestPolitics.com would be better since it isn't about affiliate anything.

    P.S. I don't think Mike should run it, either!
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  9. #9
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I'll set up the sep domain I already have as I already have the license - need a partner/admin for it tho - pm me.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Thanks! I think this is something that is a natural off shoot of ABW and past due!
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    SSanf knows herself well enough to know she is not objective enough and would be a poor candidate for running such a forum with a steady, even hand which it would require.

    P.S. I don't think Mike should run it, either!
    There is absolutely nothing that says a political board needs to be run by someone who sits on the "fence." Ssanf - Just go do it !

    The real issue for setting one up here, is that everyone wants to argue/disagree/gloat/tag-team with folks they already know - that's cool, but it is a huge distraction in a forum designed for other things, again IMHO.

    A link from here would be great, but let's not bring it back here - please.

    Fred

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador
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    As far as the political forum, it didn't matter to me if we had it or not. But as far as people being upset with it, i don't understand that, you have to opt in to see it in the first place and should know going in topics in a political forum are going to get heated from time to time. I don't understand having a Fitness Forum either as you could easily having a Pets Forum, Food/Cooking Forum, Sports Forum etc. Doesn't matter to me either having or not having those. When i first got here a few years ago I went back to the start and read all the threads and the way it looked was the Midnight Forum was just a general affiliate marketing discussion area and the Abestweb Family area was more for off topic stuff like sports topics, personal stuff, funny stuff, big news events, the 9/11 threads that happened before i got here, any non affiliate marketing stuff usually went there and that seemed to work out fine. Don't know, what forums to have are hard sometimes. This is an affiliate marketing forum but sometimes we like to talk about non affiliate marketing stuff with fellow affiliates.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    Your intentions were good and your heart was in the right place. This is such a hot topic right now it would be impossible to find a happy middle ground.

    Keep the faith, keep moving forward.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  14. #14
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Here's the thing. We have ALWAYS come to ABW to take a break from making pages and used it sort of as our water cooler where we chat with co-workers about assorted stuff just like people in the "real" world. The problem is that, like other people, some of the things we want to talk about are not all that neutral, light and airy. We want to talk about real issues that affect our lives, our countries, our fellow man. When we do, because those things are often hot topics, it is upsetting to the advertisers who pay the bills. And, it can be distracting or confusing to people who come here looking for professional information. So, we had a private room. But, because the discussions are sometimes a bit too controversial to be in what is basically a professional forum and could be misused or quoted out of context as coming from ABW, maybe, they need to have some separation so as not to undermine the ABW reputation even if they do take place behind closed doors, as it were.

    So the thing is, if we have another entire forum, we can talk about things that really bug us and are big issues to us but still hang together as folks kind of around our work place water cooler.

    But, I agree there should be some kind of a link from ABW that neither endorses nor not endorses the goings on there. Just something that says if you want to talk about politics and current events with each other take it off ABW and here is the place to go do it.

    Considering that there has been long term interest from quite a few members here in talking to each other about such things and it is unlikely that those disccussions will ever be entirely eliminated, human nature being what it is. A place where we can meet to talk about such things off ABW seems like a good idea.

    And, it is only natural that when things of major national interest occur, we will want to talk about them. Wouldn't it have been good if Haiko could have just posted an announcement that Katrina was bening discussed at the other forum so that ABW members who felt the need could have gone there and those not interested could have just skirted past the whole thing?

    I think it is a good decission all around.

    I also think there is a very good chance Haiko could end up with two excellent forums instead of one.
    Last edited by SSanf; September 18th, 2005 at 11:07 PM.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Possible threads:

    Todays Hot News
    Post a link and we talk about it

    Hall of Shame
    Malfeasance, Swindles and so forth

    Weather or Not
    Environmental Issues, Science

    Our Honorable Representatives
    Discuss elected officials

    Your Money's Worth
    Use of our tax money and tax related issues

    Under Law
    Legal issues. Could include things like separation of church and state, abortion, Supreme Court nominees and so forth.

    Over There
    World issues and discussions of events in areas the person who originates the thread does NOT live in.

    Other ideas?
    Last edited by SSanf; September 18th, 2005 at 11:42 PM.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  16. #16
    Marketing Mistress Lectrickitty's Avatar
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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and offer to let people post on a forum I've been testing on one of my sites. It's not a good forum, but it can be used for a short time. It's just a place I've been playing around with, so check it out if you want to use it for a while, it's ok with me.

    http://javero.com/testboard//index.php

    If posting this link is against the rules, then please delete this post. I'm not intending to break any rules, just give people a place to go blow off some steam and then come back here when they calm down.
    [color=blue]"Those who give up their freedom for a little security deserve neither freedom nor security" - Benjamin Franklin[/color]

  17. #17
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    The only reason I participate(d) in the Political Issues forum here was because it was interesting, I was already here, and it was people I knew. I wouldn't be interested in a separate political forum, although I'm sure it could do well.

    I can take or leave the Political Issues forum. I enjoyed it while it was here, but it was a distraction from the primary focus. I didn't see a problem with it, because you had to opt in to access it.

    I had a feeling that it would be hard to keep the politics out of the Katrina forum. It's such an emotionally charged issue, and it's hard to have "just a little" politics.

    I don't think there's any need for Haiko to apologize, though. He did what he thought was best, made changes as necessary, and made the hard decisions. I think many people felt the need to vent about the way things went down, and the Katrina forum served that purpose well. Our focus here is affiliate marketing, but we're also a "community".
    Michael Coley
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  18. #18
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, I think you will find the new forum just as interesting and full of people you know so once it is started and you pop in a few times, we will be interested in your insights which I think you will still want to share.

    Tell you what. I think the forum could become almost like a Drudge Report, only with discussion!

    That is what I would like to see.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  19. #19
    Sinclair Oil Lurker Jones's Avatar
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    Haiko has a hard job, but integrity will always prevail. whatever you do Haiko, I know this community will support your decision.
    [B][COLOR=Red]I look forward to Google's demise[/COLOR][/B]
    Look who is suing Google - [URL=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=google+gets+sued]click here[/URL] and [URL=http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=google+gets+sued&FORM=MSNH&srch_type=0]here[/URL] and [URL=http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=google+gets+sued&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8]here[/URL]

  20. #20
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Haiko, there is no need to apologize.

    You had good intentions and didn't mean anyone any ill will. It was a tough subject and I am sure a hard one to moderate at times.

    You did what you thought was best with good intentions. That is all anyone can expect.
    Ebudae


  21. #21
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker Jones
    Haiko has a hard job, but integrity will always prevail. whatever you do Haiko, I know this community will support your decision.
    What L J said. :-)
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  22. #22
    Full Member jerseyjim's Avatar
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    [B]Haiko,
    All of the issues going round, on many forums,including one I belong to, from the town I lived in, all touch on the many things our country is involved in.Many agree, as I, with your comments.When we lose the right to speak out,we lose everything.You have always been a straight shooter, you have my vote.
    My dimes worth
    JJ
    [FONT=Times New Roman]Even Einstein read comic books to relax[/FONT] :clap:

  23. #23
    Affiliate Manager harrymond's Avatar
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    No apologies required Haiko,
    We all know, You had the good intensions !!
    Cheers,

    Harry.
    Mondera Affiliate Manager
    http://www.mondera.com/affiliate_support/
    Winner of the LinkShare 2004 Golden Link Awards "Affiliate's Choice Award"
    Winner of the 2002 Abestweb.com "Best Affiliate Program Award"

  24. #24
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    No apologies needed. We should apologize to you for being so *****y in the Katrina forum in the first place. I for one can admit these sort of things touch a personal nerve and I really can't 'censor' myself when it seems like there is injustice going on and people lie down and take it. While I opted into the political forum, I never posted there because I like many people on here alot (and quite frankly, I didn't want to be black-balled more than I already feel like sometimes). Hell, Michael(Coley) and I have disagreed on a few things, but I think he's a damn fine person and never want him to feel like I'm arguing with him for the hell of it. I think I may be like Sandra in the essence of, I'm too stubborn and opinionated. The difference is, she can bow out gracefully to prevent mayhem.

    If you open a new political forum, great, because I know many people need that outlet. If not, that's okay too. As for me, I'll stay out of it, because I really can't be impartial when it comes to politics. I always had a saying with my friends, "You want to keep a great friend, never talk about sex, religion, or politics." And I should keep that phrase in mind on here as well....

    Thanks for being such a great, impartial, and respectable admin, Haiko.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  25. #25
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Haiko you did what you did out of compassion and caring, not only for members here directly impacted by recent events but for all those impacted directly by recent events. The only quibble I have with you at the moment is you stating "I was wrong." You aren't the one that was wrong. You have always tried to the best of your ability to balance the needs and desires of this community while sticking to your core beliefs. Not an easy task. You may have had the implications of closing the Katrina forum while all the bullroar still having a venue via the political forum. But I see no 'intent' on your part to have been actively attempting to provide a venue for such. Your track record along those lines is pretty clear.

    ABW is primarily an AM forum. When members who have quite a bit to contribute with regards to AM (whether veteran or newbie ABWers) curtail or stop their participation here because of the stuff that was being posted (whether it was in the katrina or political forum), then the AM community as a whole is losing out as well as ABW.

    Personally I have a very bad taste in my mouth over many postings regarding katrina. It has certainly impacted upon my desire to be on the boards. The fact that I'm feeling that way is also upsetting to me as I have invested quite a bit into this community. Hopefully over time I will 'get over it.' Hopefully others will also.

    But I see absolutely nothing wrong in what you attempted to do Haiko nor a need for you personally to apologize for anything.

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