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  1. #1
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    Unhappy google and affiliate site
    I'am very frustated with google, build sites and always all pages get supplemental result so traffic #0 and rank nowhere. is google really hate affiliate sites ? ... just want to know how you survive in google these days .
    Last edited by fxdir.com; September 19th, 2005 at 02:09 PM. Reason: icon for your message

  2. #2
    Newbie Knothead's Avatar
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    ... just want to know how you survive in google these days.

    I need to know too, I can't get a nibble! It's like I'm fishing with a turd on my line! Google hates me. Boo hoo

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Your best bet is to build something that's buzz worthy. Google loves sites that get natural links in blogs. If people start talking about your site in popular blogs and you generate a buzz, Google will reflect that in your traffic. The real trick is just building something cool enough to get this kind of attention. Be unique and innovative and really provide something of substantial value. Don't just build a cookie cutter site based on a few coupons and datafeeds because that won't cut it. Be original and useful and you'll do well.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  4. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    >>>always all pages get supplemental result <<<

    I'm wondering what you mean by supplemental result.

  5. #5
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    Google should be sued for unfair trade practices by companies who have affiliate programs.
    As a public company Google should also be investigated by the FTC and the congress.
    The internet is a free market system and Google has restricted participation
    by favoring certain types of web sites and shunting others to their graveyard.
    A huge number of honest webmasters and the general public are being screwed by Google's restrictive trade practices.
    Google is a gigantic scam and the regulatory agencies are to lazy a/o
    not smart enough to detect and correct it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakpot
    The internet is a free market system and Google has restricted participation by favoring certain types of web sites and shunting others to their graveyard.
    So I guess the internet isn't a free market for google?

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Jakpot,

    I totally disagree with your statement. Google is not trying to restrict anybody. They're simply trying to provide a service that people find useful and friendly. Even so, they aren't obligated to send traffic to anybody. We need to be grateful for any traffic Google sends us as we're responsible for our own fortunes or misfortunes. You can't blame Google because you rely on them too much for traffic.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  8. #8
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I *gasp* agree with Snib's second post.

    Of course, I take EXTREMELY STRONG exception to Google's whacked-out notions of what kinds of sites are "useful."
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I really think Google is having issues. Doing a site: search reveals incorrect page counts, often double or quadruple the total number of pages that really exist, they're having issues with 301 and 302 redirects, they can't seem to comprehend that pages that were 404'd a year or two ago are STILL GONE, they are indexing custom 404 error pages, as well as Google doesn't seem to understand that http:/ /mysite.com and www. mysite.com are both the same thing.

    So, don't be too concerned about your site having a problem, at this point it's pretty apparent that Google is hosed up, and has been for the better part of a year now.

    Andy

  10. #10
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    <<<We need to be grateful for any traffic Google sends us>>>

    LOL - Yeah, I'm also grateful to the gasoline companies for making
    gasoline available for my hog regardless of the cost. But "grateful"
    does not negate my position that they have unfair trade practices.
    All the webmasters who have been knowingly screwed by Google since
    November 2003 would fill up several Superdomes.
    Google nor any other search engine owes me jack, however they do need
    to be intellectually honest in their business dealings and cut the crap
    with their algorithmns which are nothing more than a drunk on a
    random walk.
    Emotional diatribe reflecting die hard Google worship is not the correct
    response to the inherent problems Google has been having for a
    long time.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    I'm certainly not a Google fan but I think they do what they do because of so many spamming affiliate sites. I don't think they necessarily hate all affiliates but they get tired of having to keep changing things because someone found a work around and spammed the hell out of their SERPs. It's doubtful they spend millions of dollars doing this just for the fun of it or to piss off affiliate site owners. I get pissed off at Google too but I'm just as pissed off at all the ugly, crappy sites setup just to spam the SERPs. Take a look at today's scraper sites, see how absolutely useless they are, how they dimish the search engine's results (usefulness) and you can understand why they keep changing.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
    www.gocmc.com info(AT)gocmc.com | 330-259-1223

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  12. #12
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    I'm ranking fine with Google for pretty competitive keywords and my sites are full of affiliate links, networks and indies. Some of my sites kept the same position they had when Google was in beta testing.
    Others are up and down, a few can't make it. If you don't overdo it with affiliate links, or duplicate content, it should work.

  13. #13
    Crazy like a fox suzigeek's Avatar
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    Amen Zues!! I can only hope to be in your position...soon!!
    Suz~~GearGirl~~

  14. #14
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fxdir.com
    I'am very frustated with google, build sites and always all pages get supplemental result so traffic #0 and rank nowhere. is google really hate affiliate sites ? ... just want to know how you survive in google these days .
    I don't survive by their SERP results that's for sure. Ironically, their adsense has come thru for me to take up the slack and then some.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesehead
    I don't survive by their SERP results that's for sure. Ironically, their adsense has come thru for me to take up the slack and then some.
    Maybe that's just what they want. Is it possible that they thought if they pinched affiliate sites in the SERPs those affiliates would start to spend money on adsense? I wouldn't be at all surprised is the majority of their adsense income came from affiliates.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
    www.gocmc.com info(AT)gocmc.com | 330-259-1223

    Join us! - MiNeeds.com | DiscountCandleShop/CheeseSupply | Feng Shui Plaza

  16. #16
    Full Member bwc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up
    Quote Originally Posted by Snib
    Your best bet is to build something that's buzz worthy.
    Check out the Buzz Index - Top Yahoo! Web Searches - http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzz_log/

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rice
    Maybe that's just what they want. Is it possible that they thought if they pinched affiliate sites in the SERPs those affiliates would start to spend money on adsense? I wouldn't be at all surprised is the majority of their adsense income came from affiliates.
    I think you mean AdWords, not AdSense. I seriously doubt they're filtering out thin affiliates in order to make more PPC money from affiliates. I also don't believe a majority of their AdWords income is from affiliates. It's better suited for companies that have wider margins and more control over pricing. Affiliates can't even effectively use the conversion tracking portion of the system.

    If your site is losing traffic from Google, it's because Google has found a site it deems more worthy for those positions.

    Check out the Buzz Index - Top Yahoo! Web Searches - http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzz_log/
    Not exactly the kind of buzz I was talking about. I'm more concerned with buzz from sites like http://del.icio.us, http://www.digg.com and http://www.technorati.com. These types of sites are beginning to redefine the internet and how we find valuable information.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  18. #18
    Member Streaatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knothead
    ... It's like I'm fishing with a turd on my line!
    HAHA I am not poking fun at you having troubles but that has to be one of the funniest things I've heard in a LONG time!!!!!

    Streaatz

  19. #19
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    Snib
    Not exactly the kind of buzz I was talking about. I'm more concerned with buzz from sites like http://del.icio.us, http://www.digg.com and http://www.technorati.com. These types of sites are beginning to redefine the internet and how we find valuable information.
    With all due respect Scott, those sites may be redefining the internet for GEEK topics.

    Most popular:
    web
    blog
    design
    software
    reference
    programming
    tools
    music
    news
    css
    ajax
    web2.0
    linux
    blogs
    art
    howto
    webdesign
    search
    development
    java
    tutorial
    technology
    internet
    javascript
    google
    business
    tips
    free
    fun
    opensource
    mac
    games
    cool
    politics
    photography
    ruby
    rss
    shopping
    science
    tech
    flash
    video
    humor
    books
    media
    osx
    toread
    windows
    webdev
    python
    That is all peachy keen wonderful for folks who have content sites about GEEK topics - yep, they'll get all kinds of buzz.

    But are you implying that those sites will BUZZ about Christmas decorations, coffee pots and ladies bras? Like the kind of stuff people SEARCH for at the engines to BUY when they go SHOPPING? Seen any hot stuff on Technorati on kids Superman pajamas or Barbie Doll collectibles lately? Or pearl earrings, maybe?

  20. #20
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webworker
    Snib
    With all due respect Scott, those sites may be redefining the internet for GEEK topics.


    That is all peachy keen wonderful for folks who have content sites about GEEK topics - yep, they'll get all kinds of buzz.

    But are you implying that those sites will BUZZ about Christmas decorations, coffee pots and ladies bras? Like the kind of stuff people SEARCH for at the engines to BUY when they go SHOPPING? Seen any hot stuff on Technorati on kids Superman pajamas or Barbie Doll collectibles lately? Or pearl earrings, maybe?
    LOL WW! I'm not in the Geek category either. It's easier for those with tech knowledge to implement all the latest and greatest technology into their sites. For us 'mom-types" it's the battle of the bras and Spiderman jammies.

    Everyone needs to stay on top of their own niche market and the developments there. Good point.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webworker
    Snib
    With all due respect Scott, those sites may be redefining the internet for GEEK topics.

    Most popular:
    That is all peachy keen wonderful for folks who have content sites about GEEK topics - yep, they'll get all kinds of buzz.

    But are you implying that those sites will BUZZ about Christmas decorations, coffee pots and ladies bras? Like the kind of stuff people SEARCH for at the engines to BUY when they go SHOPPING? Seen any hot stuff on Technorati on kids Superman pajamas or Barbie Doll collectibles lately? Or pearl earrings, maybe?
    You've just pointed out some very key areas to move into with this new form of technology. The techonology is starting out in geek channels, of course, but it will move into more commercial markets very soon. I'm excited to be one of the first to combine ecommerce with web 2.0 technology. I've already seen a couple sites pop up that use web 2.0 techniques and they're gaining momentum quickly. As the common internet user becomes more familiar with the technology and ideas behind it, they'll begin to embrace it and use it much more readily than now. I want to be prepared for that.

    Just look at Amazon. They've been promoting web 2.0 technology before the term was even coined. They're a pioneer in online shopping technology and those who don't follow suit will be left behind in the dust.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Grumpy's Avatar
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    I agree with Webworker on this one, and quite frankly I think Google are shooting themselves in the foot. Millions of people use the internet mostly for shopping and are not interested in some geeky joke site, porn site, or whatever else there is out there. By dropping a lot of good content shopping sites from their search results, not only are they depriving folks from finding exactly what they want instead of having to sift through 100's of pages of results, but they are also decreasing the revenue they could be making from their advertisers through their Adsense publishers. Yahoo and MSN are providing much better search results these days when it comes to finding what you want. I see more and more of my site visitors coming from referrals via these SE's as well as some of the smaller ones. I hope the saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" will apply to Google sometime in the near future when, hopefully, Yahoo or MSN topple them from their almighty pedestal. Stranger things have happened!

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy
    I agree with Webworker on this one, and quite frankly I think Google are shooting themselves in the foot. Millions of people use the internet mostly for shopping and are not interested in some geeky joke site, porn site, or whatever else there is out there. By dropping a lot of good content shopping sites from their search results, not only are they depriving folks from finding exactly what they want instead of having to sift through 100's of pages of results, but they are also decreasing the revenue they could be making from their advertisers through their Adsense publishers. Yahoo and MSN are providing much better search results these days when it comes to finding what you want. I see more and more of my site visitors coming from referrals via these SE's as well as some of the smaller ones. I hope the saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" will apply to Google sometime in the near future when, hopefully, Yahoo or MSN topple them from their almighty pedestal. Stranger things have happened!
    I disagree and believe that Google is doing everything in their power to produce results that help customers find exactly what they're looking for. They want to link to sites that customers will want to use as a resource. I see plenty of really well done sites that come up in the results and believe Google is still doing a good job of providing quality results. I know it's difficult to look at this without bias, but that's what we have to do if we're going to survive. We have to look at the sites that are ranking and figure out why people like these sites. Why are customers returning to these sites time and again and what services do they provide that we can borrow.

    Google isn't dropping a lot of good content sites, on the contrary they're dropping a lot of sites that they don't consider good content sites. They also aren't hindering their AdSense income. In fact they're improving it. Everybody has AdSense ads, so don't you think Google would prefer to send a customer to a site that they'll return to. If they send the customer to a thin affiliate site, they may or may not click the AdSense ad. They will never return to the thin affiliate site and they may not return to Google due to the poor results.

    It's bias to say that Yahoo and MSN are providing good results because your sites are part of their results. You have to consider this from an outside point of view. Maybe you feel your sites are good, but the vast majority of the internet may not. Honestly, I believe Yahoo and MSN still have a ways to go if they're going to produce results as good as Google. I see more spammy sites in Yahoo than Google and they remain there much longer than in Google.

    Providing a valuable customer experience is getting harder and harder by the day. Customers are expecting much more from merchants and affiliates. You can't have a datafeed site unless it's updated daily and the search features are up to par. You can't have a coupon site unless you've got every single coupon in your niche. The bar is high because the competition is tough. We just need to step things up and provide better service than everybody else. That's the challenge.

    If your service is useful and respected, Google traffic will come naturally and you won't need to worry about fluctuation. It's always been my belief that Google traffic reflects your own return traffic. If you have consistent return traffic, you'll have consistent Google traffic. If your customers don't return, Google will stop sending traffic.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  24. #24
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    I believe that Google wants good, relevant results, as they all do. And getting most or more traffic from MSN & Yahoo usually means better rankings at those engines, not that they're being used more - very simple.

    There's a BIG difference between content sites and sales sites and they cater to different phases in the buying cycle - if the searchers are actually out to buy at all, and not just looking for information. Google may look for "signals of quality" but there's no way an algo can detect what's actually "quality" which is a subjective judgment.

    Many of the sites that are still ranking top for many, many, many commercial shopping type searches are still ecom with no content whatsoever. They are ranking because of IBLs. And Amazon doesn't rank because of content - they have none - and not for their technology either, imhpo. It still adds up to IBLs in their case, as is the case with any of the biggies on their scale, just on a different scale than Tuscon Joe's Widget Emporium.

    Sorry, you do not need an academic treatise or research report on towels or technical specifications on how the cloth was derived and woven for a blouse or tablecloth. You just need the brand or type or design that they're looking for at the right price. And it doesn't hurt one bit to have the bucks to buy the right links either. Or the right connections.

    Technical stuff is a whole different ball game, it's apples and oranges.

    Added:

    If your customers don't return, Google will stop sending traffic.
    In how many years?

    When will customers return to a site that sells refrigerators? How soon will they return to buy another car? How many times will they come back to buy storage sheds? How often do they need to come back to buy auto insurance?

    How does Google know whether "our" customers return? Is that parameter mentioned in any of the Google algo papers or patents that they've been granted?

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webworker
    In how many years?

    When will customers return to a site that sells refrigerators? How soon will they return to buy another car? How many times will they come back to buy storage sheds? How often do they need to come back to buy auto insurance?

    How does Google know whether "our" customers return? Is that parameter mentioned in any of the Google algo papers or patents that they've been granted?
    It's all about the inbound links. Maybe you won't return to a site to buy a car again right away, but maybe you'll refer others by posting links in forums or blogs. Google knows what sites are being mentioned and referenced. Like you said, inbound links are still determining a lot of the commercial search results. It's just a reflection of loyalty.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

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