Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 78
  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 28th, 2005
    Posts
    35
    Has the Time Come For A "General Strike" Against CJ?
    It is becoming increasingly clear that CJ does not have the work ethic or technical know-how to complete this "upgrade".

    It has also become increasingly clear that they are deceptive on the issue of tracking problems and lost sales and leads. They tell us what we want to hear even in the face of overwhelming statistical evidence from countless publishers who have done test sales or who have seen their sales drop drastically even as their traffic surges upward.

    It has also become increasingly clear that they don't care about "customer service" for affiliates. E-mails regarding problems go unanswered for weeks or are returned with form responses. Tech problems (which have a dubious tendency to appear on Fridays) are allowed to linger on weekends with nobody working on them while millionaire CJ execs party on luxury yachts with money stolen from affiliates in the form of skimmed commissions.

    CJ takes its most important element, the publishers, totally for granted. The reality is, without the publishers, there is no CJ. They need us infinitely more than we need them, but it seems a lot of people have been brainwashed otherwise.

    The only way to get CJ to behave in an ethical and professional manner is to bong them off our websites....cut off their source of revenue and you'll find that suddenly they have hired enough competent people to solve their tech and customer service problems. CJ will not react in a competent and professional manner to tech and customer service problems until it is a matter of survival for them.

    Just like in any other avenue of "employment", as long as CJ has enough compliant slaves, they will steal from us and treat us like garbage.....just like most U.S. employers do to their employees until confronted with increasingly rare organized labor actions.

    Since CJ isn't even bothering to count most of our sales any more, there has never been a better time to say "goodbye" to them.

    And of course it's of the utmost importance to spread the word to other publishers about what's really going on here....both CJ publishers who are out of the loop and don't read boards like this as well as non-CJ publishers who could be the ripped-off CJ publishers of the future if they don't have the facts in front of them.

  2. #2
    affiliate emeritus missdonna's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    1,986
    Organizing a bunch of AMs would be harder than herding cats. Don't bother trying.

    I've pretty much moved away from CJ. Lots of people have. Not to teach them anything, or make them do anything. Just to go on with our lives.

    Fortunately they're not the only game in town.
    Affiliate Marketing - The hardest easy money I ever made.

  3. #3
    Member Kevin Collier's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 10th, 2005
    Location
    My Office in North America
    Posts
    149
    I too am 'moving away from CJ' however, I have spent the last 5 years building sites around CJ merchants. So, even though my income is slowly starting to gain momentum with indies and SAS, a large part of my clicks still go to CJ merchants. It's not always just as simple as replacing links and the process of leaving CJ can be long and tedious. I must admit that I do still have one part of my brain telling me that all of the problems with CJ will get ironed out. I wish that I could shut off that part of my brain because I know that type of thinking is useless.

    So, my vote goes for saying 'goodbye' to CJ... no matter how long it takes.

  4. #4
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Argieville
    Posts
    1,381
    LoliPop,

    While I agree that the update has not taken place in a time frame that would be considered competely responsive, you seem to think that CJ is out to steal from you, so you must not know what performance marketing means.

    In short, it means that if you don't get paid neither does CJ, aside from nominal monthly fees and the only group that benefits are the Advertisers, so go ahead and organize some AMs to rally your battle cry.

    I know for a fact that the people of CJ are dedicated to fixing this and I'm sure that they are doing everything that they can. The lack of timely corrections and a delay in payment is symptomatic of a larger change caused by personnel turnover and new procedures put in place after the Value Click buy out.

    Once these problems are ironed out I think we're looking at a number of years with CJ out in front and dedicated to those who have helped them grow. Programs such as CJ performer are evidence of this mind set....Are you a performer? Have you used the tools that CJ offers you to help you grow, such as CJU online?

    I believe as of Friday there was a message that stated that there would be an update on Saturday and that it would take some time before everything was reporting on or about the normal time (provided the fix is correct)


    LoliPop...I just reviewed your 27 post within this forum all directed at CJ and their handling of this update.....don't you work with anyone else?......or do you work FOR someone else? Inquiring minds want to know!

    MrBsHouse

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador La_Valette's Avatar
    Join Date
    September 25th, 2005
    Location
    The Pale Blue Dot
    Posts
    841
    What alternatives to CJ would you guys recommend? Comments on the pluses & minuses of each? I'm also using Linkshare & Performics, but so far I have to say I've found CJ at least to pay quickest.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    84
    moving away works great, when you run a bunch of sites and promote general PRODUCTS/CATEGORIES.

    For specific targeted campaigns and efforts it isn't viable at all, and the top 20% making 80% of the money for CJ don't run general sites, hence something like this isn't effective.

    For instance I can't drop my ebay traffic elsewhere, as I get ebay traffic only because of ebay.

  7. #7
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    5,781
    In short, it means that if you don't get paid neither does CJ, aside from nominal monthly fees and the only group that benefits are the Advertisers, so go ahead and organize some AMs to rally your battle cry.
    This is a total load of bullshoot!

    CJ do not give two hoots wether we stay or go from their network. If we do not send them sales their parasitic buddies most certainly will. I'm also certain that once the CJ's income level drops sufficiently their parasitic affiliates will be getting emails from CJ telling them it is ok for them to steal/divert a larger percentage of honest affiliates sales.

    You seem to have forgotten CJ are neck deep is the scum of the earth parasites and cookie stuffers, to them the honest affiliate is just something they have to put up with in their quest for millions.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon
    This is a total load of bullshoot!

    CJ do not give two hoots wether we stay or go from their network. If we do not send them sales their parasitic buddies most certainly will. I'm also certain that once the CJ's income level drops sufficiently their parasitic affiliates will be getting emails from CJ telling them it is ok for them to steal/divert a larger percentage of honest affiliates sales.

    You seem to have forgotten CJ are neck deep is the scum of the earth parasites and cookie stuffers, to them the honest affiliate is just something they have to put up with in their quest for millions.
    Wow Gordo has mellowed and thrown in some no-spin logic into this post. He feels like I do that all these network upgrade snafus are to customize the network reporting to the specific needs of Super Affiliates and SEO/SEM network campaigns. Joe Blow domain bound affiliate can take it or leave it. I'll not strike CJ, because it's a worthless effort, when they're already striking me by adding the double dipping Browser spammers and info peddling advertising spyware to interfere with my traffic.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  9. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 28th, 2005
    Posts
    35
    "In short, it means that if you don't get paid neither does CJ, aside from nominal monthly fees and the only group that benefits are the Advertisers, so go ahead and organize some AMs to rally your battle cry."

    And you really believe advertisers such as Eby audit to make sure the set of numbers CJ provides to us is the same as the set of numbers CJ provides to them regarding publishers sales and leads? Do you have any proof these audits are taking place to make sure CJ isn't skimming? Because if these audits aren't taking place, we only have CJ's word to go on, and we all know what that means.

  10. #10
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 28th, 2005
    Posts
    35
    "LoliPop...I just reviewed your 27 post within this forum all directed at CJ and their handling of this update.....don't you work with anyone else?......or do you work FOR someone else? Inquiring minds want to know!"

    I also use adsense. Ebay for the most part is the only CJ advertiser I use. I've tinkered with using other ones but they don't generate any revenue on my site. I don't work for anyone else.

    And the fact of the matter is, historically, whenever CJ implements one of these "upgrades", the majority of publishers report their EPC drops drastically and doecumented lost sales become commonly reported. So it seems awfully convenient that they are in a constant state of "upgrade". I can't remember a calendar year that didn't involve several weeks of CJ upgrades with accompanying dubious tracking problems.

    Additionally, when you look at the behavior of executives at U.S. companies such as Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, Walmart, the entire banking and airline industries, etc.....it becomes obvious that an enormous # of U.S. companies do not generate their revenue in an honest fashion and that the concept of ethics is largely foreign to U.S. run businesses. So I'm very skeptical of a company like CJ's "upgrading/tracking" problems when companies such as Amazon and Google are able to track seemingly trillions of transactons per day without incident and without a seemingly endless stream of botched "upgrades". CJ is either ripping us off or they are in way over their heads, but either way their business practices need to be called into question before there is ever improvement. Just let them keep getting away with this....and they will in turn just keep getting away with it.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,178
    The bottom line is, when something doesn't track it's the affiliate who gets screwed, and no one else. The merchant still makes a sale, CJ still gets its monthly fees, everyone gets something for their efforts except the affiliate who initiated the sale. They get squat.

    Face it, we're expendable. Just another cost of doing business to CJ.

    They've had plenty of opportunities to come clean, and do the right thing. But it doesn't appear that they have. And this goes back years and years.

    I'll never buy the theory that people just sit at their computers for hours, clicking on links because why? They're BORED out of their minds? They're too curious to resist the ad? Why do so many clicks result in no sale? I'm not sure I buy the current line being offered in the way of an excuse for this. To expect such a low number to convert just doesn't make sense to me.

    I understand things will happen and sometimes a sale will get lost, or not credited. But I don't believe the "tracking and reporting are not affected" story, either. There are too many other issues with this system to have perfection in the tracking and reporting department.

    Andy

  12. #12
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Argieville
    Posts
    1,381
    Perhaps a more productive way to go forward is to group transactions from publishers like ourselves into transactions that did not track and present these to CJ, so that we can get some solid answers on why they did not track.

    What is the common factor in these...is it advertiser based (not reporting to CJ) is it blocked cookies, is it outage periods? I'm sure that if we all reported the test transactions that did not track in a logical format that CJ would be very interested to hear this.

    Possible fields for this report:

    Date including time
    Advertiser
    click to sale ratio of this advertiser
    link type used
    location of purchase connection
    Browser used
    ISP used
    location of link (webpage or PPC?)
    Amount of transaction
    Advertisers transaction ID number

    Feel free to add anything Iím missing here


    These could be sent to a trusted member that everyone is comfortable with having this information and following that to Todd for review. (also a global look at the programs run ..IE traffic =, clicks = conversion down 20%)

    I feel better looking for ways to fix stuff...rather than run away from or whine about the issues. I agree that it's important to have a balance of opportunities and that reporting have some sort of audit, with feed back provided freely ;-)

    Try asking the program account manager what was reported to see if it matches.

  13. #13
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    5,781
    The "trusted third party" and the "in compliance " are the two biggest crocks of sh*t that CJ ever came out with.

    The "tracking is not affected" is not really a lie its more a fib,.....
    I think they really must believe it as they say it so often despite being told differently by numerous affiliates.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Nunya, Business
    Posts
    23,684
    Mr. B are you a CJ employee?

    "I know for a fact that the people of CJ are dedicated to fixing this and I'm sure that they are doing everything that they can."

    Starting Monday? There are still some issues that were brought up Friday. Todd was here said yes and yes when asked if the upgrade is over and all done. Still bugs, still no communication.


    "Perhaps a more productive way to go forward is to group transactions from publishers like ourselves into transactions that did not track and present these to CJ, so that we can get some solid answers on why they did not track."

    That's good for our own test purchases but for purchases that did not track from our site visitors, there's no way to know that.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,608
    Quote Originally Posted by mrbshouse
    LoliPop,

    While I agree that the update has not taken place in a time frame that would be considered competely responsive, you seem to think that CJ is out to steal from you, so you must not know what performance marketing means.

    In short, it means that if you don't get paid neither does CJ, aside from nominal monthly fees and the only group that benefits are the Advertisers, so go ahead and organize some AMs to rally your battle cry.

    I know for a fact that the people of CJ are dedicated to fixing this and I'm sure that they are doing everything that they can. The lack of timely corrections and a delay in payment is symptomatic of a larger change caused by personnel turnover and new procedures put in place after the Value Click buy out.

    Once these problems are ironed out I think we're looking at a number of years with CJ out in front and dedicated to those who have helped them grow. Programs such as CJ performer are evidence of this mind set....Are you a performer? Have you used the tools that CJ offers you to help you grow, such as CJU online?

    I believe as of Friday there was a message that stated that there would be an update on Saturday and that it would take some time before everything was reporting on or about the normal time (provided the fix is correct)


    LoliPop...I just reviewed your 27 post within this forum all directed at CJ and their handling of this update.....don't you work with anyone else?......or do you work FOR someone else? Inquiring minds want to know!

    MrBsHouse
    the thing is, Mr. CJ mouse, CJ wants us to be patient but all it is doing is making our lives miserable and difficult by doing all these unnecessary and unneeded so-called upgrades.

    I'm sure CJ is doing all it can but if it continues to remain deaf to its affiliates, it is only doing all it can to hasten its demise.

    you say, if we don't get paid, neither does cj. has it occurred to you that CJ reporting is a mess? sales are being creditted to somebody else's account. when that happens, other affiliates get paid, cj gets paid, but i don't get paid.

  16. #16
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Argieville
    Posts
    1,381
    Trusted,

    I was a while back, but now I live in Argentina and the drive to work was costing a fortune so I quit. I'm not saying that they are perfect, or that any network is, but I do know that they are dedicated to providing the best tracking possible.

    Since I don't speak much Spanish, web work is my day job and I do not work exclusively with CJ nor do I receive information that is not available to any of you. If anything I've lost friends over leaving, since I'm now in affiliate marketing full time.

    It's in my best interests to see a solution just like everyone else here.

    Waytogo....yes it is a mess, but to think that CJ isn't trying to fix it is only making the issue worse. If there is proof, as I'm sure there is BRING IT and lets try to help find a solution (MR CJ Mouse?....surely you can do better...if your going to jab why not just throw a punch...rat)

  17. #17
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    5,781
    sales are being creditted to somebody else's account. when that happens, other affiliates get paid, cj gets paid, but i don't get paid.
    And this IS happening!!

    It is happening now, and CJ not only know full well it is happening they are allowing it to happen!!!! They actually promote these thieving bastards to every new merchant they get.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  18. #18
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    Go ahead and boycott. That'll just leave more of the pie for those of us who continue to work with CJ merchants.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  19. #19
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Argieville
    Posts
    1,381
    WAYtoGo,

    You said on Sept 8th that it was the first time in 4 years without a sale at cj...did this ever come back and report differently, or are you still 0 for that day?

    How many others are in the same place...what type of information can be gathered and shared with Todd?

    There is a huge difference between providing statistical information in a business like way than just typing about how bad things are. What are the real numbers is everyone down by the same amount..it doesn't sound like that is true so what are the common threads that we can present? (would a poll of some sort be appropriate?)

    not trying to poke anyone in the eye, i'm just looking to make this work ;-)

  20. #20
    Newbie at tooting my own horn M_Diddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 19th, 2005
    Posts
    546
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Go ahead and boycott. That'll just leave more of the pie for those of us who continue to work with CJ merchants.
    Beat me to the point,

    I got one even better.....IM me....I might even buy your business, you never know.......

    I gots nothing but love for CJ...

    And Golden link Mike....I still cant understand a word you are saying.

    Diddy

  21. #21
    Internet Cowboy
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,662
    Quote Originally Posted by mrbshouse
    Perhaps a more productive way to go forward is to group transactions from publishers like ourselves into transactions that did not track and present these to CJ, so that we can get some solid answers on why they did not track.
    I have done everything possible with CJ on transactions that did not track. I have supplied them with everything you suggest. They tell me to talk to the merchant, the merchant tells me to talk to CJ. The publisher is caught in the middle and CJ not only knows it, but sets it up this way so they don't have to deal with it.

    I mentioned ABW to a CJ employee once and was told that ABW is nothing but a bunch of small, unknowledgeable affiliates who do nothing but whine about every little thing. When I asked this person if he knew that a CJ VP posted regularly at ABW, he had no idea. This tells me that this is what CJ tells their people about ABW. This person had no doubt NEVER been to ABW and was only spewing out what he had been told.

    You can prop up CJ all you want. I encourage you to join only programs that eβates and SAHS are in, certainly you are familiar with these two quality publishers and their ardent policy of never diverting or redirecting affiliate clicks while strictly adhering to CJ's strictly-enforced publisher COC.

    I am a CJ affiliate because I have merchants there that I can't replace. I am slowly but surely working my way out of that situation because I too am convinced that CJ just doesn't care. I want to convince myself that they are just incapable of doing things properly, but with the resources they have this just doesn't make sense, leaving me the only option to believe that they don't give a rat's ass about the core publishers.


  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Nunya, Business
    Posts
    23,684
    "There is a huge difference between providing statistical information in a business like way than just typing about how bad things are. "

    I've posted copy and paste of my sales showing gaps, i've posted my EPC numbers, 1/3 of what they usually are, i've posted getting sales from merchants that aren't mine, one was but with an SID not mine, etc. You should take the time and actually read the threads instead of trying to spin it like we're imagining things. Did I imagine notices up at CJ for a month and a half? Yes, that's how long this upgrade has been going. But it's to be expected of a CJ employee, or ex, don't know.

    "That'll just leave more of the pie for those of us who continue to work with CJ merchants."

    That could be a temporary thing, merchants can switch networks. Plus some CJ merchants are also Performics merchants and SAS merchants and Indy merchants.

  23. #23
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    12,360
    Quote Originally Posted by La_Valette
    What alternatives to CJ would you guys recommend? Comments on the pluses & minuses of each? I'm also using Linkshare & Performics, but so far I have to say I've found CJ at least to pay quickest.
    Valette - definitely also check out ShareASale - great network and good merchants!
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  24. #24
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    I mentioned ABW to a CJ employee once and was told that ABW is nothing but a bunch of small, unknowledgeable affiliates who do nothing but whine about every little thing.
    I know of at least two CJ Performers here on ABW. You have to do $10,000 per month in commissions to be a Performer.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,608
    Quote Originally Posted by mrbshouse
    WAYtoGo,

    You said on Sept 8th that it was the first time in 4 years without a sale at cj...did this ever come back and report differently, or are you still 0 for that day?

    How many others are in the same place...what type of information can be gathered and shared with Todd?

    There is a huge difference between providing statistical information in a business like way than just typing about how bad things are. What are the real numbers is everyone down by the same amount..it doesn't sound like that is true so what are the common threads that we can present? (would a poll of some sort be appropriate?)

    not trying to poke anyone in the eye, i'm just looking to make this work ;-)
    i got tired of using mole, and yours rhyme with mouse. thanks for the rat though. hehehe

    my stats say it was on the 6th, and it is still 0 up to now.

    but holy cow, do you know what happened today? yesterday my stats say that i have sales for that day. now, my stats say that i have no sales at all yesterday. if you're thinking of lost sales coming back, think again. it's more like existing sales getting lost.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What is time frame from "Low Funds" to "Temporarily Offline"
    By purplebear in forum ShareASale - SAS
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 16th, 2009, 05:24 PM
  2. Ultimate Contest: "Time to Work - Time to Play"
    By Geno Prussakov in forum AM Navigator
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: January 21st, 2008, 09:29 AM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 29th, 2005, 01:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •