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  1. #1
    Full Member apex-auctions's Avatar
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    Yahoo PPC ??
    I am considering using Yahoo for Pay Per Click ad's any one have good / bad luck with this program?
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  2. #2
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    It will vary by industry.

  3. #3
    Full Member apex-auctions's Avatar
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    I currently use Google but I am looking to expand. I guess I am wondering how the 2 plans compare.
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  4. #4
    Member seWEB's Avatar
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    You will get more traffic with Yahoo/overture compared to adwords. In terms of quality there is not much difference. You might also want to try contextual advertising with places like kontera.

  5. #5
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    You will NOT get more traffic with Yahoo. You will get better traffic with Yahoo. Less junk than google supplies. For example, across all my campaigns, my conversions are 1 in 6 for yahoo, and 1 in 35 for google. Yahoo clicks are fewer and farther between and they cost more (generally) but the ROI is better. Also you don't have to worry about a Google "editor" from India or Guatamala (not joking, they farm this stuff out to the 3rd world) taking a hatchet to your PPC campaigns in the middle of the night and disabling hundreds of campaigns for reasons ranging from "affiliate bridge" , "site not available" and the ever popular "disabled" with no reason attached. Then in the morning you have to spend 3 hours giving shit to the account manager that the people they hire to do the "quality control" can't even speak english, much less read and understand their vague rules on ad quality. After a whole morning wasted, they finally agree that the "editor" was too agressive and turn the ads back on. This happens about once a month and it is the only way not to lose historical rank. The down side of Yahoo is the interface is clunky but they have really improved the wait time for ad approval. Now it's usually done within an hour even though the generic message says 3 days. No secret Google sauce to deal with, just pure auction and no random reviews after approval.

  6. #6
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjscooter
    You will NOT get more traffic with Yahoo. You will get better traffic with Yahoo. Less junk than google supplies. For example, across all my campaigns, my conversions are 1 in 6 for yahoo, and 1 in 35 for google. Yahoo clicks are fewer and farther between and they cost more (generally) but the ROI is better. Also you don't have to worry about a Google "editor" from India or Guatamala (not joking, they farm this stuff out to the 3rd world) taking a hatchet to your PPC campaigns in the middle of the night and disabling hundreds of campaigns for reasons ranging from "affiliate bridge" , "site not available" and the ever popular "disabled" with no reason attached. Then in the morning you have to spend 3 hours giving shit to the account manager that the people they hire to do the "quality control" can't even speak english, much less read and understand their vague rules on ad quality. After a whole morning wasted, they finally agree that the "editor" was too agressive and turn the ads back on. This happens about once a month and it is the only way not to lose historical rank. The down side of Yahoo is the interface is clunky but they have really improved the wait time for ad approval. Now it's usually done within an hour even though the generic message says 3 days. No secret Google sauce to deal with, just pure auction and no random reviews after approval.
    Wow - very in-depth and informative post. This is good to know. Thank you Cjscooter!
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
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  7. #7
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexanne
    Wow - very in-depth and informative post. This is good to know. Thank you Cjscooter!
    Ditto!

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    From my standpont G used to be more effective (and easy to implement), but lately has become much more of a PITA. Just my opinion YMMV.

  9. #9
    Full Member apex-auctions's Avatar
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    Thanks cjscooter,

    That helps a lot, because I am looking for quality not quantity.

    I do have a few gripes with Google:

    1) Everytime I find a few keywords that work well the words keep getting bummped up in minimum price ( this happens offten ) . And lot's of time I am the only buyer of that word . ( in tested search results )

    2) When I buy ad's for a site it seems my "natural" search position slips greatly ( just on Google ). I do not have proof but it just looks that way.


    I have only been using the PPC's for a short time ( 6 months ) I used to generate traffic the "natural" way with creative copy. But I have found this easier and more proffitable. Once again thanks for the review
    Need eBooks ? [URL=http://www.softebooks.com]We gott'em[/URL]:escape:<br>

  10. #10
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I do a little better with Google AdWords than with Yahoo (Overture), but they're both great.
    Michael Coley
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  11. #11
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    "Also you don't have to worry about a Google "editor" from India or Guatamala (not joking, they farm this stuff out to the 3rd world) taking a hatchet to your PPC campaigns in the middle of the night and disabling hundreds of campaigns for reasons ranging from "affiliate bridge" , "site not available" and the ever popular "disabled" with no reason attached"

    I would say the Yahoo editors are much worse and take forever. I usually load up my Overture account at the beginning of the year and let it run. Ran out after Christmas so just last Friday decided to add some money and activate the campaigns already there and try a new campaign out. So first it takes about 3 days and then I get a site is broken reason for them declining keywords. Emailed them and said they resubmitted them and I took a look and now have to wait another 3 days. They need to fix that part.

  12. #12
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    Just opened this month's Informationweek mag and there's an article on Yahoo Search. Thought you'd be interested in this:

    "In an Outsell survey of 1,200 advertisers released in January, some 70.9% of respondents rated Google "extremely/somewhat effective" for keyword search ads, compared with 61.9% for Yahoo and 46.1% for MSN. For contextual placement, those numbers were 46.8% for Google and 40.1% for Yahoo."


    Speaking myself, I much prefer Google PPC to Yahoo.

  13. #13
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    One of my biggest issues with Overture/Yahoo is that it is annoying to have to wait 24hours+ to get an ad approved. It makes getting time sensitive ads up difficult. In overture its all about paying your way to the top rather than in google where there are quite a few more factors that determine your ad placement. Also, i have experienced quite a bit more click fraud in yahoo.

    Matt

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Over all Google Adwords campaigns (also syndicated through AOL) converts for my clients 50% better then Overture clicks over a 2 year timeframe. Every click that leads to a sale is tracked right to cart checkout. Identical keywords and Ad test used in either campaign. I personally don't use any PPCSE traffic for my own affiliate sites, but would encourage tests and exclusivity on my landing pages by any of my showcase merchants ...

    The new rules in PPCSE over registered trademarks will limit the playing field ... http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3590596 ... Paid Search Spawns 'Drafting' and 'Hijacking' Strategies › › › ClickZ News

    Keep up on the PPCSE market with a few teasers at http://www.clickz.com/experts/brand/...le.php/3590646
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  15. #15
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    I started with Adwords but for some category Overture had better traffic though it seems costlier. What I dislike about Yahoo is the wait for approval on each ad. If I want to promote a current sale, the 72 hours wait is painful.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by apex-auctions
    I am considering using Yahoo for Pay Per Click ad's any one have good / bad luck with this program?
    Well Apex,

    Here is my insight. The experiences that I got through Yahoo is not too great. If I had to choose between Google and Yahoo, I would definitely stick to Google and here is why.

    First of all, the Yahoo interface is too messy. While Google has the hiearchial set up within each campaign and ad group the Yahoo interface doesn't support it. I know that it's a pain in the butt to categorize everything in detail on Google, but it makes it so much easier when it's completed. On the contrary, when updating Yahoo's keyword listings and description, you almost have to change each keywords individually. Now, it's ok if you're operating on only couple of hundred keywords, but if you're operating with thousands, good luck to you because it's will be time consuming. And everyone knows that customizing your ad to your keyword is the best solution in PPC Campaign.

    Secondly, Yahoo's billing system is totally whacked out! Everytime you change a daily budget, the system charges you way over. One time it charged me $2000 over my daily budget in one day! On top of this, you have to call or put in a support email each time this happens. Who has the time to do this everytime? Now, they say that you shouldn't change the daily budget too often, but come on, things happen.

    Third, they don't support filtering geographically. To explain in detail, I'll give you an example. My company doesn't support foreign traffic, which means that we don't accept customers/visitors from outside the U.S. and Canada. Now, I've noticed that I got huge foreign traffic from Yahoo. So, I called and inquired about how to stop the foreign traffic that I was getting except that I couldn't accomplish this because Yahoo doesn't have a way to filter these out. Adding salt to an open wound, I still had to pay for these foreign traffic! The only suggestion I got from them was put "We don't accept foreign customers" in every one of my Ad Listings. That's another customization to 2000+ keywords!

    I think that their technology is sub-par compared to Google. You really shouldn't be going through all this grief with a 1st Tier PPC Provider. I mean even the 2nd Tier PPC Providers have a foreign traffic filtering system.

    Well I said my piece. I hope this puts some new perspective on a lot of marketers out there.

    -Mike

  17. #17
    Member nLoBushwack's Avatar
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    Overture is a good way to expand if you keep it simple. Like Mike stated above, you have to bid each keyword individually. Plus, Overture does not support plurals, so you are limited to the number of words you can upload anyway.

    Google is more fair across the board. Instead of bidding against other bidders, you are simply maximizing your ROI. Overture requires a completely different and time consuming bid strategy (depending on # of keywords).

    However, if you can track your success / failure with keywords in Google, then Overture is the best way you can expand. MSN is another option that is up and coming. Stay away from Ask, Lycos and Inktomi.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nLoBushwack
    Overture is a good way to expand if you keep it simple. Like Mike stated above, you have to bid each keyword individually. Plus, Overture does not support plurals, so you are limited to the number of words you can upload anyway.

    Google is more fair across the board. Instead of bidding against other bidders, you are simply maximizing your ROI. Overture requires a completely different and time consuming bid strategy (depending on # of keywords).

    However, if you can track your success / failure with keywords in Google, then Overture is the best way you can expand. MSN is another option that is up and coming. Stay away from Ask, Lycos and Inktomi.
    MSN's head is too big in my opinion. MSN's PPC is already active nLo. It is by invite only however. Also, you can inquire about it directly through MSN. I've done this and let me tell you, it took them 3-4 weeks for them to get back to me after repeated inquiries. Not only that, the response email clearly state that if you don't have $10,000 monthly minimum budget setup for MSN, then don't bother inquiring any further. And for Banner/Graphic Ads, it's $20,000/per month minimum

  19. #19
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    $10,000 monthly minimum for MSN???

    They happily accepted my $30 monthly budget, no prob. I was on the list for a while, too, and received the invite a couple weeks ago. So far, so good, I like the program.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bethany
    $10,000 monthly minimum for MSN???

    They happily accepted my $30 monthly budget, no prob. I was on the list for a while, too, and received the invite a couple weeks ago. So far, so good, I like the program.
    Really?

    That is bizarre. I just confirmed it on my email that I got from them. It is $10,000 min for search advertising they said.

  21. #21
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    MSN's got so many different advertising options that even they don't know wtf.

    The Beta PPC program doesn't have that minimum bid.
    But their older ad programs do.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    As for PPC companies in general, I'm on Yahoo and Google. I never thought I'd ever talk in favor of what used to be Overture after they screwed up so bad a few years ago! But, they seem to have fixed their atrocious customer service issues.

    That said, overall I like Yahoo better now. Unlike nLo, I find Yahoo's system to be the fairest: You got the money, you've got the rank. Simple as that. None of this popularity-contest BS! I'm in business, not high school!!!

    Also the traffic quality from Yahoo seems better. Often G's PPC traffic, when I do break down and bid for some, doesn't seem to convert at all!

    On the downside, it's kind of a pain to put a lot of listings into Yahoo, and it threw them fits when I tossed a straight WordTracker list at 'em, since WT does NOT consolidate plurals and Y does. And they still have some idiot editorial decisions, still (for instance, if I'm pushing, say, Nike, Adidas, and Hush Puppies shoes, Y may accept listings for Adidas and Hush Puppies--but reject the Nike ones for "trademark" reasons. Duh?! [I don't actually push shoes, that's just an example]).

    As for MSN, I've avoided their beta. My mother got in on it, and it sounds like a hideous pain. Frustrating, missing major features (can't see what the competition bids), robotic listing-denials which pick up words that it MIS-thinks are "forbidden" content, and to appeal denials you have to send in an XML file(!!) etc! So I'm not touching it until those issues are fixed. They need to make things a lot easier! Just hearing the stories about them makes me shudder.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  22. #22
    Member nLoBushwack's Avatar
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    MSN is converting at HUGE ROI right now because of the lack of competition.

    It is a pain in the @ss to use, and their demographics features are a joke (even though the idea makes for good PR). I spoke with the reps at MSN when they were going to unroll their increased traffic (I believe they are at 70% capacity at this point) and they really struggled with my questions regarding basic features like a search box to find individual keywords and why the program crashed every time I tried to update a bid when I finally did find the keyword I was trying to optimize. It usually takes 30 minutes to change 5 keyword bids and that is unacceptable, so I usually just send mass bid change files to the reps and they deal with it.

    Still, I can't complain too much about an almost 2000% ROI right now.

    As for fairness of Yahoo vs Google.... money does speak louder than relevancy in Google as well as in Yahoo. It just costs more in Google to get the higher position. Let your metrics do your bidding for you... it's emotionless, quick and effective. Why spend hours bidding individual keywords in Yahoo when you can just upload mass bid lists within five minutes in Google? I will admit that Yahoo’s traffic does convert better, but Google allows much more balance and control with your ROI goals and requires much less work to optimize your campaign (assuming your are taking advantage of their bid upload tools).

    But no matter what search engine you are using, remember to use ACCURATE TRACKING and LANDING PAGES!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nLoBushwack
    MSN is converting at HUGE ROI right now because of the lack of competition.

    It is a pain in the @ss to use, and their demographics features are a joke (even though the idea makes for good PR). I spoke with the reps at MSN when they were going to unroll their increased traffic (I believe they are at 70% capacity at this point) and they really struggled with my questions regarding basic features like a search box to find individual keywords and why the program crashed every time I tried to update a bid when I finally did find the keyword I was trying to optimize. It usually takes 30 minutes to change 5 keyword bids and that is unacceptable, so I usually just send mass bid change files to the reps and they deal with it.

    Still, I can't complain too much about an almost 2000% ROI right now.

    As for fairness of Yahoo vs Google.... money does speak louder than relevancy in Google as well as in Yahoo. It just costs more in Google to get the higher position. Let your metrics do your bidding for you... it's emotionless, quick and effective. Why spend hours bidding individual keywords in Yahoo when you can just upload mass bid lists within five minutes in Google? I will admit that Yahoo’s traffic does convert better, but Google allows much more balance and control with your ROI goals and requires much less work to optimize your campaign (assuming your are taking advantage of their bid upload tools).

    But no matter what search engine you are using, remember to use ACCURATE TRACKING and LANDING PAGES!
    That sounds almost too good to be true, but if you're experiencing it first hand, that's great! A question for you nLo, how did you manage to get an invite from MSN? I've been inquiring for a month and they haven't got back to me yet.

  24. #24
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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  25. #25
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    Donuts,

    Thank you!

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