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  1. #1
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    CJ Enforcement - Submit Stuff We See To?
    CJ's newly revised Publisher Service Agreement:
    http://www.cj.com/psa.jsp

    (c) Promotional Methods. You represent and warrant that You will not engage in and/or facilitate spamming, indiscriminate advertising or unsolicited commercial email or otherwise fail to comply with the CAN SPAM Act of 2003 (Public Law 108-187 or any successor legislation), and/or any other laws and/ or regulations that govern email marketing and/or communications. You represent and warrant that You will not engage in pop-up or pop-under advertising using any means involving third party properties and/or services (software). Pop up/unders are acceptable on a first party basis only when triggered by Your site content /site visit or by downloadable software applications for which You are the owner/operator. Pop up/unders delivered through downloadable software cannot engage in means that force clicks or perform redirects, or pop over a pay-per-click listing or natural search results. Pop up/unders must honor the CJ Publisher Code of Conduct requirements (as such requirements may be modified from time to time), including but not limited to: (i) installation requirements, (ii) enduser agreement requirements, (iii) afsrc=1 requirements, (iv) requirements prohibiting usurpation of a Transaction that might otherwise result in a Payout to another Publisher (e.g. by purposefully detecting and forcing a subsequent click-through on a link of the same Advertiser) and (v) non-interference with competing advertiser/ publisher referrals.

    Bold added by me.

    I hope CJ enforces this with deep resources and shines up / shakes up the CJ top performers list.

    Todd - if we see clear violations, what is the CJ email address for us to send input to?

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Now that's a paragraph worthy of an ABW announcement.... and strict enforcement.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I just wonder if CJ's policy of old which allowed a 60 day period following notice of non-compliance to "fix" bugs or whatever still holds. After all, the holidays are right around the corner, and a few of the software publishers are likely gearing up for their annual software bug...

    Andy

  4. #4
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Todd - if we see clear violations, what is the CJ email address for us to send input to?
    Compliance issues are submitted through AAQ.

  5. #5
    Internet Cowboy
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    Isn't it amazing how those "software glitches" always happen around the holidays and never happen in favor of the other affiliate? It is always in favor of the software affiliate. Damn convenient I say!


  6. #6
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    Just start posting videos if you have them starting Oct 20 when this goes into effect.

  7. #7
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie aka Ms. B
    Compliance issues are submitted through AAQ.
    Yes, I know, and it's a pain. An email would also be my lawyer's preference so that I can retain a sent copy for my records.

    Regardless, to get to AAQ...
    +Log into your CJ account,
    +Click Contact Us,
    +From the choices there, choose Ask A Question (AAQ),
    +Type in a subject,
    +Write out your complaint / evidence / documentation / question,
    +Choose from among the 9 AAQ categories (and more subcategories) hoping that you're sending the info to the best department / route,
    +Attach any supporting files you want to submit,
    +Continue hoping that you haven't timed out yet...
    +Click Submit Question,
    +Then wait...
    +Then log in every once in a while and check on the status (don't hold breath),
    +Cross your fingers and hope that CJ has turned over a new leaf and will do something,
    +Cross your toes and hope that CJ will tell you what they did.

    Accountability and affiliate service at its finest. Brought to you by the network that brought you eBates, weatherbug and more.

    Surely efficiency is in their interest (even if no outward sign of it has ever been apparent). Setting up an email box for input would clearly allow us to HELP CJ better.

    Todd - how about telling us the exact category / sub we should submit to - or is this to much to ask of someone helping you where you need it badly?

    I look forward to hearing the "this let's us assign it a ticket" answer... you know, others have managed to integrate support emails into their ticketing systems - and someone the size of CJ ought to do the same.

  8. #8
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    Just start posting videos if you have them starting Oct 20 when this goes into effect.
    I may do that, but making videos and posting them on a stand alone website (to meet ABW rules concerning showing aff sites) adds a substantial amount of work.

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    I may do that, but making videos and posting them on a stand alone website (to meet ABW rules concerning showing aff sites) adds a substantial amount of work.
    Post them on my site as everyone, including the perps, know that one.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  10. #10
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    I want to see CJ enforce their new policy - because of past events, the present tone of my posts does not generally show how excited I am to see this policy finally arrive. I want to see them enforce it - and I am genuinely interested in assisting them. I assume other affs feel the same way. Over a month or two, if I could submit items and see action and see CJ making efforts to streamline the process for helpers it finds of value, much of my indignation from the past will begin to melt away.

    Forgive a lot, yes, but only with a turn of events that earns it.

    Forget, never.

    If they're on a path to being honest and forcing all of their partners to be as well, I want to be a part of that. I am skeptical, very skeptical, but this issue is too large and too important to our industry and our own earnings for me to deafly continue banging my F&*K CJ drum - I am pausing to take another snapshot of who they are.

    If they drag their feet, falter, twitch, vascillate or even scratch their heads too much, I want immediately know that and stop wasting my time helping them. And bang my drum loudly again.

    Well CJ, why don't you let us know if your intentions are pointless paper promises or a new path?

    Try to hire Kellie -AND- Ben to vacuum and steam clean the hallways of CJ and ALSO open a path to people who can help show you where to look for free.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    Yes, but it's documenting violations so everybody can see. And then everybody can see how much they (CJ) are into enforcement.

  12. #12
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    Just start posting videos if you have them starting Oct 20 when this goes into effect.
    Is this a joke?



    Today is the 10th.

    So that would mean that we can still give the parasites 10 more extra days until the 20th, before we can legally turn them in and see some results?

    NOW!

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    I want to see CJ enforce their new policy - because of past events, the present tone of my posts does not generally show how excited I am to see this policy finally arrive. I want to see them enforce it - and I am genuinely interested in assisting them. I assume other affs feel the same way. Over a month or two, if I could submit items and see action and see CJ making efforts to streamline the process for helpers it finds of value, much of my indignation from the past will begin to melt away.

    Forgive a lot, yes, but only with a turn of events that earns it.

    Forget, never.

    If they're on a path to being honest and forcing all of their partners to be as well, I want to be a part of that. I am skeptical, very skeptical, but this issue is too large and too important to our industry and our own earnings for me to deafly continue banging my F&*K CJ drum - I am pausing to take another snapshot of who they are.

    If they drag their feet, falter, twitch, vascillate or even scratch their heads too much, I want immediately know that and stop wasting my time helping them. And bang my drum loudly again.

    Well CJ, why don't you let us know if your intentions are pointless paper promises or a new path?

    Try to hire Kellie -AND- Ben to vacuum and steam clean the hallways of CJ and ALSO open a path to people who can help show you where to look for free.
    I second That. I haven't been a very vocal ranter on CJ for months now. I ran out of wind and therefore look closer at the path to CJ future. They can ignor me and I'll just watch. I have the tools in place to compare Holiday sales from 2004 to 2005 to see CJ's progression. Proof is in the pudding, as Gordo always says.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  14. #14
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    That's when it goes into affect Sal. So when it is in effect and you catch violaters, that's when you can see if they enforce or not.

  15. #15
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    Yes, but it's documenting violations so everybody can see. And then everybody can see how much they (CJ) are into enforcement.
    This has been my path before - you've seen my videos.

    And if nothing changes - reporting it again will bring me pleasure.

    But I am taking off my vindictive hat, for a short period of time, and allowing CJ to do what they have dictated in their terms.

    Good or bad, I will share what happens to me personally as it goes - by posting about whether action was taken. To do that, I'd like a human being there at CJ to receive my input so I can stay calm and know that it's actually being read.

    But, as an inside tester for some merchants, I have learned that leverage can quickly be found by privately hunting - it has allowed me to find three, connects the dots and out them in 20+ programs before the different legs on the same cockroach could scurry. This crossing, of catching one and having CJ snag them across their 1400+ merchants, is the SOLE reason why I would rather report to CJ privately than to just post a video. My normal satisfaction, with showing that CJ is just talking - not doing, is taking a short sabbatical because the new psa appears, to me, to be a serious step forward.

    If you ever have the opportunity to work closely with merchants as I have, and as I assume Kellie and a few others have, when you see the sales amounts these guys have been bagging through cookie stuffing, you'd be willing to temporarily set aside the fun and the past hurt for a tall glass of f*&k you right now for the people who are not earning, but are stealing from others.

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    This has been my path before - you've seen my videos.

    And if nothing changes - reporting it again will bring me pleasure.

    But I am taking off my vindictive hat, for a short period of time, and allowing CJ to do what they have dictated in their terms.

    Good or bad, I will share what happens to me personally as it goes - by posting about whether action was taken. To do that, I'd like a human being there at CJ to receive my input so I can stay calm and know that it's actually being read.

    But, as an inside tester for some merchants, I have learned that leverage can quickly be found by privately hunting - it has allowed me to find three, connects the dots and out them in 20+ programs before the different legs on the same cockroach could scurry. This crossing, of catching one and having CJ snag them across their 1400+ merchants, is the SOLE reason why I would rather report to CJ privately than to just post a video. My normal satisfaction, with showing that CJ is just talking - not doing, is taking a short sabbatical because the new psa appears, to me, to be a serious step forward.

    If you ever have the opportunity to work closely with merchants as I have, and as I assume Kellie and a few others have, when you see the sales amounts these guys have been bagging through cookie stuffing, you'd be willing to temporarily set aside the fun and the past hurt for a tall glass of f*&k you right now for the people who are not earning, but are stealing from others.
    Gets my vote for post of the year!
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  17. #17
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    You represent and warrant that You will not engage in pop-up or pop-under advertising using any means involving third party properties and/or services (software).
    Well that's for publishers. How about merchants? Is there something that applies to their merchants throwing out popup windows to visitors from third parties?

    Where do we submit reports about merchants who use third-party popups on their sites that kill commissions for affiliates who sent the traffic?

  18. #18
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I don't really see what the difference is in this new PSA and the old COC/TOS.

    It was plainly laid out what could not be used in the old COC/TOS yet CJ still allowed (and still do allow) them to do things that they were told they not able to do. As we all know CJ did jack about them, in fact they openly promoted the parasites/scum to their merchants.

    As for the videos ........blimey, how many hundreds if not thousands have they had sent to them showing the parasites/scum's blatent disregard for their COC/TOS? yet still again CJ did jack and continued to promote them to their merchants.

    So, please forgive me for being skeptical but I don't see CJ doing a bloody thing to the parasite/scum apart from continuing to promote them as honest wholesome affiliates to their merchants.

    Todd
    If I am wrong about this please feel free to enlighten me but please don't quote the odd one or two token parasites you have gotten rid of. We want to know about the majority that are still stealing from us.
    Are they going to be able to continue?
    Are you going to accept even more into your stable?
    Do you have any intention at all of getting rid of the thieving scum?
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon
    I don't really see what the difference is in this new PSA and the old COC/TOS.

    It was plainly laid out what could not be used in the old COC/TOS yet CJ still allowed (and still do allow) them to do things that they were told they not able to do. As we all know CJ did jack about them, in fact they openly promoted the parasites/scum to their merchants.

    As for the videos ........blimey, how many hundreds if not thousands have they had sent to them showing the parasites/scum's blatent disregard for their COC/TOS? yet still again CJ did jack and continued to promote them to their merchants.

    So, please forgive me for being skeptical but I don't see CJ doing a bloody thing to the parasite/scum apart from continuing to promote them as honest wholesome affiliates to their merchants.

    Todd
    If I am wrong about this please feel free to enlighten me but please don't quote the odd one or two token parasites you have gotten rid of. We want to know about the majority that are still stealing from us.
    Are they going to be able to continue?
    Are you going to accept even more into your stable?
    Do you have any intention at all of getting rid of the thieving scum?
    Get on with your bad self Gordo! We'd both become Adwhore gunslingers if there was a bounty posted somewhere...
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  20. #20
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    We'd both become Adwhore gunslingers if there was a bounty posted somewhere...
    Someone has to do it Mike.........

    I sure as hell cannot see CJ getting rid of the thieving scum of their own free will, at least not without a hell of a lot of prompting and digging from us honest affiliates.

    I know its a bad state of affairs considering CJ still have the audacity to class themselves as "Your Trusted Third Party" but I guess thats the way they decided to go in their quest for the big money.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Is this a JOKE...??
    The new PSA has more legal mumbo jumbo but the OLD one had enough in it that they could have enforced it and kicked out the ADWHORES.. They had enough in their OLD PSA to make a clean sweep.. and chose NOT TO - regardless of any videos or documentation of any wrong doings..

    OLD PSA
    -----------------------
    You shall not cause any Transactions to be made that are not in good faith, including, but not limited to, using any device, program, robot, Iframes, hidden frames, redirects or clicking on Links that You place to the Advertiser.
    -----------------------
    Link To OLD PSA


    There is no change at CJ...
    I wouldn't waste a second recording VIDEOS or DOCUMENTING..
    That time would be better spent getting one, two, three, or how ever many merchants that you can to see the value in opening up alternate accounts at SAS...


    Give me a second to get my Attorney..

  22. #22
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    The difference is small, but is different.

    Here's the comparison someone here did - it contains link to the old and new psa as well: http://www.jangro.com/cj-psa-changes.htm

    See section 2c.

    "You represent and warrant that You will not engage in pop-up or pop-under advertising using any means involving third party properties and/or services (software)."

    It explicitly calls out the one behavior above that I've quoted and several other behaviors that I also see a lot of. Further, my take, and the reason for my short sabbatical from thumping CJ (even thoiugh they're crooked as macaroni... old habits!) while I take another snapshot of them, is this... this new language is something affiliates can see - take a screenshot of a third party pop-up in use by a publisher and you submit it to CJ.

    It's a small crack CJ has opened, but I crack I want to see exposed.

    If an affiliate signs up with metrics direct (aka 180 soltuions, zango), they are violating these new terms - that was not the case early in my view.

    Will they receive and act on input we can easily show them? I want to know the answer to this question.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Will they receive and act on input we can easily show them? I want to know the answer to this question.
    Donuts, they never have before. In spite of an obscene amount of documentation, they had to research it on their own. Then the 60 day non-compliance warning period started. If the problem was corrected during that time, it's back to home base and yet another opportunity to steal again in the future.

    Why should we expect anything different this time?

    Andy

  24. #24
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy
    Why should we expect anything different this time?
    I don't, but I am going to reconfirm this step because I see it has the capacity to change things. I doubt it seriously, but I am going to make an effort. And then go back to banging my drum louder than ever before.

    Let me follow through on two reasons why I am willing to be made a fool of with them.

  25. #25
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Many of us HATED being lumped in with bad actors under the name "affiliates" - here's an entire thread where we have voiced our intense displeasure:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=64341

    We have all had ideas where we honest affiliates (that are already complying with the new psa's section 2c), would like to separate ourselves from the crowd that we know is nothing like us at all. We talk and post and get nowhere. With this move, CJ has officially created two classes of affiliates - section 2b and 2c and related refer to these two classes as:
    +"Special" Publishers
    +by default, the ones that aren't special

    "(iv) designate Your Publisher Account as “special” if You promote an Advertiser(s) by any means other than displaying a Link to the Advertiser on Your Web site. CJ must approve all of Your promotional activities and may deem Your promotional activities inappropriate and a material breach of this Agreement in CJ's sole discretion."

    What we tried to do for years, to differentiate ourselves from the thieves, has now been drawn for us by CJ.

    They are idiots, so they didn't give us a name. Let's think of ourselves as "Regular" affiliates (aka "right as rain"), and the other class as "Special" affiliates (aka parasitic cheating buttheads).

    Read 2b(iv) in quotes above again... see, there are no two classes of affiliates - as defined by CJ - us and them.

    This is a monumental step for us - we need to insist that the press refer to the special asswipes as "special" affiliates from here forward.

    We couldn't do it - CJ does NOT listen to affiliates - and I'm not so gullable and naive to think it is so. They were pressured by merchants to do this. Those merchants however, were influenced by us - some leaving CJ, some starting parallel programs at CJ and some joining ABW and learning about how CJ was encouraging people, the "Special" people to steal from the merchants.

    Like most here, I want to create a divide between honest "regular" affiliates and the scum-sucking lazy bastards that CJ pleasantly calls "Special". We know they're "special" cuz they need an extra "special" approval process, an extra "special" set of rules, an extra "special" set of eyes on them to make sure they don't cheat - and we all know they will - cuz they think they're "special".

    Well, now they are. They are "special". And they are differentiated from us with that label. And I applaud it's arrival.

    This label leads me to reason #2 why I am going to be made an ass of by thinking CJ will change...

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