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  1. #1
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    I now have two extended payments, and one reversal from cosmeticmall.com, and a big sale commission was reversed by neocomputers thirty days after the transaction for an invalid credit card???????

    When I buy something on the web, and my credit card number is incorrect, I don't get to follow through with the purchase. How the f*** does it take neocomputers thirty days to figure out they have an invalid credit card?

    I guess people are fine with us getting the shaft as long as they make their money, and are sitting in Santa Barbara.

    Somebody please give me a rational reason for my reversals, and extensions. Right now I am having difficulty rationalizing all my hardwork and time spent on my web site going to waste.

    [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

    [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    A slap in the face hurts at first but it can be a learning experience.

    You need your own products Chuck.

    How do you know they are not screwing you all the time?

    Do all sales really get reported?

    I have merchant programs with two networks and can tell you that at least with those two, I could screw ever affiliate if I choose too. (I don't just to clarify)

    How hard would it be? Not at all! Maybe merchants could get caught after a while but who knows.

    I don't know how CJ is setup but they almost have to be similiar.

    It all comes down to honesty.
    There is no reason for us to have to depend on honesty, that is BS!.

  3. #3
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    Big Chuck....

    Well I'll watch the Neo Computers. One of the sites I own made a huge sale today. But I find it happens quite often this 30 day thing. I haven't figured it out myself.

    Even Catalogue City has done it.
    I dumped Binoculars.com finally too many returns for invalid credit card....3 weeks later.

    The only thing I can see is short of staff. One guy takes the orders....And the affiliate manager at the end of their time then goes through and denies them. Not fair really is it? The other one that drives me crazy is "unqualified lead" So I email some of them about this...Brush off or "fraud" Well isn't that "invalid cc?"

    Another CJ merchant I dropped was Consumer Direct Warehouse....computer store type. Same thing.

    Merchants Who have done this close to 30 days Later for me anyhow.

    Softmoc Purchase Date Sept 1 - Reversed Oct 1st.

    Catalogue City PD Sept 7 - Reversed 10/09/01 & Another one later on in the Month. Also Software first did this too.

    Dropped Teva as well.

    I'm at the point if their reverse sale is 40% or higher I drop them.

    I'm going to keep a list of these guys who wait around to reverse them. And I like Cat. city. I do great sales from them. But the next time I get a huge order....I'm going to email them 3 days after and see if the card was ok.


    But thanks for the heads up on neo computers.

    Theresa B

  4. #4
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    I don't know how to set up my own business, like with an online payment system. If I knew how, or what to use, I would be in business. I thought about using pay pal. I don't have a merchant account with a major credit card, or gateway.

    I have been a strong supporter, in the past, of encouraging people to get out of depending on affiliate programs for a steady stream of revenue mainly due to all the cheaters, and to CJ for perpetuating this.

    [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

  5. #5
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Paypal shopping cart is just fine.
    A lot of webmasters for some odd reason despise it but I laugh my way to the virtual bank every day.

    Why pay high% + fees on a merchant account or clickbank when paypal can do it for 30 cents plus about 1-3% and no headaches?

    My next venture will be my own consumer products when I raise the capital to get going.

    Dropshipping is in mine thoughts also but it's hard to find real ones.

    T7 seems to have a nice thing going also with that print shop.

  6. #6
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Haiko uses paypal for thebanner exchange buy credits link.

    Looks good

  7. #7
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    me too, october computer surplus and neo computer sales reversing..

    [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Spiderman ]

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Well, I can think of one reason for 30 day reversals. I once had my cc # ripped off online. I didn't realize it until the statement came 30 days later! I immediately called a couple of the companies from whom the thief had purchased, and the rest my credit union tracked down. Not that any of them were CJ merchants [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] . Some real puter geek went on a shopping spree at Real.com and Apple (and some French lingerie site,too).

    Just a thought.

  9. #9
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    That PayPal setup really isn't bad. I bought an item recently where that was what they had as a payment method. I have to say I was a bit leery--it is like a badge that says SMALL business--but everything worked great!

    And I never knew it was so CHEAP to run through there as a business!

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Heyder:
    Haiko uses paypal for thebanner exchange buy credits link.

    Looks good




    If I used my cardservice merchant account for such small transactions it would kill all the profit!
    I like paypal [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  11. #11
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    Hey Chuck,
    I was told here (at Gifttree) that VISA sends us a report at the end of every month and on that report are the credit card purchases that were reversed. Needless to say-I have to go into CJ and check to see if any of those were from CJ and reverse those commissions. We have tried to get the credit card companies to send us out something sooner (even allow us web access), but we were denied (as told by our accountant).

    Hope this helps in finding a solution.

    Monstrphil [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  12. #12
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    yeah, MonstrPhil, I guess there is a perfectly good reason. However, when I make a purchase on the web, and there is something wrong, i.e. I don't have funds, or I type in the wrong numbers, I get a message that the transaction denied; so why is it, that is appears, that the only merchants that happen to let bad credit cards go through, all happen to be CJ merchants - lol! Well, either they have been given to much leverage and discretion which allows them to cheat affiliates, or what you and web mistress said is true. I guess I can understand the stolen credit card scenario. It is really discouraging when I bust my tail to see 45 bucks yanked from my account.

    Cosmeticmall.com - I have sent them a lot of targetted traffic (not ppc search engines) through google/yahoogle with visitors typing in keyword terms like buy cosmetics - lol - to no avail. They do not convert well for me, and out of the three sales, thus far, one has been reversed for being "out of stock", and the other two sales are extended [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] - there seems to be a poor track record with Cosmeticmall.com. BTW, Strawberrynet does reall well for me, in the cosmetics department.

    This is not the first reversal I have had with advertisers, as I can clearly see the reason as being legit, usually.

    [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

  13. #13
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    I got one huuuuuge computer sale extended at the moment.. whats it gonna be - big xmas present or stolen credit card?? :rolleyes:

  14. #14
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    2 more sales of software first reversed today from October. 30 days and one 32 days.

    I'm starting to think this site of mine must be a credit card stealer's dream. All these reversals at 30 days......

    I think I'm going to drop them as well. 6 sales. All reversed at 30 days. Either they are ripping me off or they don't have a better system of doing things.

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Canfree,

    Welcome!

    Haiko

  16. #16
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Leader posted
    quote:
    I have to say I was a bit leery--it is like a badge that says SMALL business--but everything worked great!


    but see my point is that to us webmasters it seems "small business" but to a customer I don't think it makes any difference.

    In fact with paypals good reputation and branding they may trust it much more then giving away their credit card #'s online.

    Newbies especially don't like to send their private #'s out into virtual space.

  17. #17
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    Heyder--You may have a point about it not making any difference to a customer.

    The customers certainly don't have any problem clicking affiliate links on Angelfire sites, either--and webmasters act like a site on AF is shooting itself in the head! (Although I do have to say that a MERCHANT site on AF probably wouldn't go over so great...but it could be the *ahem* site design *ahem* that's responsible for that reaction more than the hosting...)

    Spiderman--that must be the same STOLEN CREDIT CARD used to buy the extended mega-sale I have from a different place! Or maybe they'll be SOLD OUT :rolleyes:

    Speaking of all those reversals I read about, I'll agree--lotsa reversals this month...

    [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Leader ]

  18. #18
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    Here's One Merchant's Exclamation.


    This email is to let everyone know that we only have an option for "Credit Card Fraud" not and option for "Declined Cards".

    If you see a sale reversed for fraud, this could also be simply a declined card. Until CJ adds more options we are going to continue to use this option.

    Our only other choice for declined cards would be "Other" and when we use that option we get a ton of emails wanting to know what "Other" means, so this option does not work.

    We are trying to make this clear as we have received questions concerning fraud, and the month of October produced a high number of "Declined Cards" -- much higher than is our normal experience, perhaps due in part to the current economy.
    ___________________________________________

    Could Cj possibly give these Merchants a "stolen card" option? or something.

    I also talked to a small timer. One gal that sells about 15 products / month.

    She authorizes each sale before she mails out. Don't others?

    If you authorized them- Wouldn't that bring up "Stolen Card".

    The process is charge credit card once product is shipped. So either these merchants are paying a fortune for sending out stolen goods/return shippings or complete laziness or either that short staffed.
    I can understand my friend authorizing each card, its not taking up much time. After all you have to know if the card is good before delivering product. My friend also says that there's software to authorize cards. Are these merchants too cheap?

    It doesn't make sense that it would take a month to know it was a stolen card, because they had to of sent out the product.

    You'd think Credit card companies would do something about this, after all they are the one's paying out.

    So if Gift Tree and other merchants who get a Monthly Statement and 10% were stolen cards or 30% that's alot of profit down the tubes. I can't see them loosing that much money, all of them would be broke. so I'm probably more confused then before.

    I personally thought it was "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing " situation"


    Boy I'm confused. Too weird I never have had a reversal on LS or Befree so far this year. Yet I hate them.

  19. #19
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    Is this coincidence. I am also seeing a reversal for Music123. Almost all are experiencing reversals on Oct. 9. It's a day before merchants has to decide whether they will pay or not. It's either they are trying to cut costs by reversing transactions or they all simply wait till this day to batch things up just like in batch transactions.

    I wrote music123 asking why the transaction was reversed with reason item out of stock and asking if I will get credit if it becomes available. I got a quick reply. They say that the transaction was actualy cancelled by the customer but the reason given was "out of stock". Anyway it's just my first transaction so I am giving it some more time before I decide if I continue to promote them or dump them.

  20. #20
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Big Chuck:
    I don't know how to set up my own business, like with an online payment system. If I knew how, or what to use, I would be in business. I thought about using pay pal. I don't have a merchant account with a major credit card, or gateway.

    I have been a strong supporter, in the past, of encouraging people to get out of depending on affiliate programs for a steady stream of revenue mainly due to all the cheaters, and to CJ for perpetuating this.

    [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]



    First of all THANKS Haiko, and all of you for the help you have given me.

    Chuck,

    I had an on-line computer hardware business since '96, and quit to concentrate on affiliate sales.

    Let me tell you running an on-line business is a LOT harder than affiliate sales even with the merchant problems.

    I continually experienced 10-30% fraudulant transactions. EVERYONE is out to con you in ways I never thought of. Kids with credit card number generators, people who said they didn't get the merchandise (even when they signed the receipt).

    It's up to the merchant to prove the real cardholder received the goods, and it's impossible online. No signature verification at the point of sale, so the merchant gets left holding the bag.

    The credit card companies reverse the transaction MONTHS later, when the real card holder gets the bill and disputes the charge (so.. yes, it can take months to be reversed).

    I found ways to prevent the fraud, but it took time and phone calls. Add all the other headaches... pinhead customers, shipment problems, theft, returns, vendors, (I could go on and on) I decided to try affiliate sales starting in 2000. Now I've switched to affiliate sales completely, and I couldn't be happier.

    Now when a merchant stiffs me for the commissions, I pull them off my pages, and remember the days when I lost the sale AND the merchandise!


    Count your blessings...

  21. #21
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Canfree:


    You'd think Credit card companies would do something about this, after all they are the one's paying out.




    As a former merchant I can tell you the credit card companies don't lose a dime with fraudulant transactions, the merchant does.

    If the customer says they didn't receive the merchandise or disputes the charge for most any reason, the merchant receives a chargeback, no questions asked.

    It's up to the merchant to dispute the chargeback, and it's futile online. The only proof the card companies will accept is a signature on the slip that matches the back of the card. Good luck getting that on-line.

    Even when the signature is sent from the shipper, the credit card companies accept the word of the customer over the merchant unless there is a history of disputes from the customer.



    The only time the card companies lose is when the cardholder goes bankrupt.

  22. #22
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    Duke.


    quote:
    As a former merchant I can tell you the credit card companies don't lose a dime with fraudulant transactions, the merchant does.


    I'm not a merchant. I just know they always say "your protected from online fraud"

    As a former merchant ....What do you think about the 30 days to reverse?

  23. #23
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    Sorry Duke....

    It's late and didn't see your first post. Thanks for the heads up on "The real story"

    I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. And I'm glad you pointed out all "headaches" about being a merchant. I never really gave it a whole lot of thought. :eek:

  24. #24
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    yep. good advice duke

  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    DukeOfURL,

    Welcome

    I love the name! Good points!

    Haiko

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