Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45
  1. #1
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Merchant's conversion stats are bogus!
    It's about high time affiliate enabled merchants get blown out of the water for not converting targeted affiliate traffic. It's a given that every merchant KNOWS their site's conversion ratio. For many their average conversion ratio on general traffic is also known and tracked by industry experts. So why the huge descrepency over affiliate network reported conversion ratios verses their sites actual conversion ratio? How can any merchant NOT have higher conversion ratios with highly targeted value-add affiliate traffic then recorded with generic site visitors.

    Is it network sales reporting problems? Is it purposeful non-reporting diversion tactics? Is it affiliate forced click issues (cookie washing and stuffing)? Is it the no value-add affiliate spammers and junk traffic perveyors far out number the legit affiliates? Is it the affiliate advertising's white noise, and tricks for clicks, having finally branded affiliate site's links as worth 1/4th the value of type in traffic?

    It's alarming how easy it is for an affiliate enabled merchant to hide their average affiliate link/click conversion ratio. Damn right they'd better run and hide from the fact they refuse to honor their sites real conversion ratio... when exposed to paying for affiliate traffic/sales. Here's some proof on why the merchants are gaming the system by rewarding and empowering mass reach (cookied sh*t on the Wall) affiliates, while marginalizing legit value-add affiliates.

    http://www.clickz.com/stats/sectors/...le.php/3496786 Bricks-and-Mortar Retailers See Lower Online Conversion Rates By Sean Michael Kerner. Look at the actual merchants conversion ratios compared to what their affiliate network reports from our legit click stats. Talk about a disconnect from reality.
    _________________________

    ".... Among the top 100 retailers, as measured by the company, the average conversion rate was 4.9 percent for all retailers, with or without a bricks-and-mortar presence. QVC boasted the highest conversion rate, 16.3 percent followed by cataloguer Lands' End with 14.8 percent. Flower delivery services also fared well, with FTD.com posting a 13.4 percent conversion rate and proflowers.com an 11.8 percent rate. Dot-com giants Amazon and eBay also finished in the Top 10 converters, with Amazon posting a 12.8 percent rate and eBay close behind with 12.3 percent.

    Only one retailer with a significant brick-and-mortar presence placed in the Top 10: Coldwater Creek with a 12.7 percent conversion rate. "Brick-and-mortar retailers are noticeably absent among the top performers in online sales conversion rates," Heather Dougherty, senior retail analyst, Nielsen//NetRatings said. "While traffic is high to popular brick-and-mortar Web sites, visitors are often researching purchases to be made offline.......... more "

    ____________________________________

    You can bet a major eTailer like Overstock bats an average general traffic 8% conversion ratio. Yet hides the fact they pay out LS commissions on a sub 1% basis. Lets discuss this issue as it effects us all.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  2. #2
    Affiliate Marketer Rogi's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    415
    I agree that the 'public' conversion stats are BS... but at the same time, many affiliates aren't sending 'targetted' traffic. My Overstock conversion has not been consistant at 5-7% or 1/20 - 1/15 for my most 'targetted' links and about 2-3% for my less targetted links.

    Also... perhaps many of the visitors we send them dont 'know the brand / merchant' as much as those who are type-in visitors or those who search specifically for the merchant (and therefore convert).

    But Coldwater Creek at 12.7? Might just go and start actively promoting them rather than a banner or two.

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager inflatemouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 28th, 2005
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    172
    A sites public conversion rate is an aggregate of all their channels. While there are some Associates who are very good at their job it takes a lot of work to surpass the general conversion rate of the Merchant. Merchants generally have a higher percentage of return visitors than Associates have - return visitors have a good conversion rate because they are both looking for something in particular and expect to find it with the Merchant.
    Spotting robotic traffic is also less accurate through Associate links.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Nunya, Business
    Posts
    23,684
    People clicking on an affiliates product links that go to "This Product Is Out Of Stock" , don't help the conversions either. I checked out the merchants in the article linked to and compared it to my conversions with them and they're not far off. Some I'm converting just a little better, some worse. Coldwater is great for me. Overstock at over 7% this month.

  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager Sami B - Uncommon Goods's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 13th, 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    141
    Our affiliate conversions change greatly, from one affiliate to another. To me it means, conversions are more related to how a particular affiliate promotes us than mechant's own set up. Of course like TrustNo1 said, out of stock items, link leakages, 800 numbers plastered around the site, etc has an effect on the conversions, but they are secondary factors.
    Last edited by Sami B - Uncommon Goods; October 27th, 2005 at 03:37 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    Sami's right on the money here. I have numerous merchants where I get over a 30% conversion ratio, where I know that their "average" affiliate only gets about a tenth of that. I suspect that some of the least targeted affiliates probably get a tenth of the average. That's a range from 0.3% to 30%, all based entirely on how targeted the affiliate's traffic is.

    There are many things merchants can do to improve or worsen conversion ratios, but the quality of traffic and degree to which the affiliate traffic is targeted makes far more of a difference than any of those factors.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Come on folks it's a given that coupons/rewards/rebates, and all incent BHO's, further cloud the network/merchant conversion issue. These all are addressing ways to unduly influence the point of sale checkout process ... not the pre-sell focusing and targeting of referrals... we're supposed to get rewarded for. Imagine the pathetic merchant network conversion ratios if all forms of incentives were removed from the affiliates cookie setting arsenals.

    Here's a irrefutable fact. This static page has converted at a steady 1 sale/14 click basis for years from natural serp traffic. www.ecomcity.com/holdup.htm by sending targeted traffic to a merchant, who averages 1 sale per 20 general traffic clicks for 5 years straight. All their affiliates equal or better this merchant's sites conversion ratio. No incentives are involved to sour the stats. Here's the quandry. This page www.ecomcity.com/bonsai.htm gets 100 times the traffic & 50% more clicks for the key words "Bonsai Trees". Not one sale has ever been reported for this niche un-advertised product area from Overstock in 2 years. Bonsai Boys of NY shows an occassional sale, after I published here they converted at a steady 1/30 basis accounting for 50% of my CJ income. Now I waste 8000 clicks/yr to them, because they refuse to honor their sites conversion ratio, once exposed to commissions and cookie tricksters.

    Let's continue to discuss why so called honest product merchants refuse to publish their networkwide conversion ratios.... with or without pushing incentives. Something must be working as they still spend millions in affiliate network commissions. My take is the working part is the house cookie washing and diversion tactics, which have become honed merchant toolsets.
    Last edited by ecomcity; October 27th, 2005 at 04:11 PM.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Nunya, Business
    Posts
    23,684
    It's just another "It's the merchant's fault and not my crappy looking sites fault" for the conversions. It seems the only merchant that converts is the one you manage. It will never change, no matter how many people have advised you on it Mike and there have been too many to count. Your site looks like crap, always has. That hurts your conversions. You have 25% traffic leaks that you knowingly put on your site all over the place. You have product links that go to out of stock pages. I've seen expired coupons on your site in the past. I could click over to a page on your site and go take a shower or go get some lunch and come back and it'll almost be done loading up. You get untargetted traffic. And you wonder why you're not converting. It's you, always has been. Take responsibility for it. Also why a merchant's conversion ratio can be higher than an affiliates is they have lots of return traffic, people who have shopped with them before. When i buy DVDs or CDs i go to Amazon. You can pretty much count on a 100% conversion ratio. People have their favorite merchants and when they type that merchant in the address bar they know where they're going, what they carry, their prices, all that good stuff. They're going to convert better than the affiliate traffic. Most of the time.

  9. #9
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    Come on folks it's a given that coupons/rewards/rebates, and all incent BHO's, further cloud the network/merchant conversion issue. These all are addressing ways to unduly influence the point of sale checkout process ...
    And the sites I'm promoting those merchants on aren't coupon, reward, or rebate sites. They're just highly targeted sites.

    Your suspender page may do well with suspender merchants, but try putting an ad for high end women's cosmetics on it and I bet your conversion ratio for that ad will be closer to 1/1400 rather than 1/14. It's all about targeting.

    Or, even better, take a page and mix ads for computers, spyware, cameras, kitchen items, jewelry, contacts, Christmas trees, knives, bird feeders, law enforcement equipment, and shoes. I bet you'll be lucky to get a 1/1400 conversion ratio from a page like that.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,420
    "There are many things merchants can do to improve or worsen conversion ratios, but the quality of traffic and degree to which the affiliate traffic is targeted makes far more of a difference than any of those factors."

    Trashing sites like Mike's, and many others, would improve the conversion rate.

    The value of the extra sale/sales from high traffic low converters outweighs the conversion rate STAT status factor.

    ...and what Trust said...

    [correct spelling error]
    Last edited by Merchant Consultant Team; October 27th, 2005 at 04:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager Sami B - Uncommon Goods's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 13th, 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    Let's continue to discuss why so called honest product merchants refuse to publish their networkwide conversion ratios.
    Why? Because that information has no value for a potential affiliate when deciding whether to join a program or not, in my opinion.

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Your clouding the point Michael. No one lands on the niche Bonsai page, and clicks to those 2 merchants, who isn't interested in shopping around their hobby or gift idea. All SERPS links are based upon natural bonsai search terms. Equally all who land upon that Holdup Suspender promo page came from suspender buying terms. They either click or migrate. In my conversion ratio analysis it all begins with a user choice click sending targeted traffic to a merchant, who's responsible for closing the deal.

    Either merchant can fullfill the niche buying needs of any referred shopper from those 2 pages. They ONLY sell those items. Overstock clicks are not expected to convert better then Bonsai Boys of NY, as their buyers and AM neglect this niche. Overstock has leakage and white noise to 1 million un-related products... as a cop-out.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Sami B - Uncommon Goods
    ecomciyt said... Let's continue to discuss why so called honest product merchants refuse to publish their networkwide conversion ratios....

    Why? Because that information has no value for a potential affiliate when deciding whether to join a program or not, in my opinion.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  14. #14
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    25
    As hard I tried not to take the bait here...seems that my willpower is at an all time low....and I thought you might like to see what an "affiliate enabled merchant" has to say about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    So why the huge descrepency over affiliate network reported conversion ratios verses their sites actual conversion ratio?
    Simple - because affiliate networks have no visibilty into anything but their own traffic, therefore they aren't reporting on the entire picture, but just their own slice of it. The reason that their reported conversion rates are much higher, is typically because their use of tracking cookies which are independent of the cookie used to track everything else on the site.

    Here's a little example for you:

    For the sake of the example, let's say that EcomCity is an affiliate of Finishline.com and you are going through one of the networks, like LinkShare.

    Step 1: Joe Consumer goes to the EcomCity website, and somehow manages to find an affiliate link to Finishline.com, and clicks on the link.
    Step 2: On the transfer from EcomCity, two cookies are dropped on Joe Consumer's PC: Cookie #1 is from LinkShare, and sets EcomCity as the affiliate of record. Cookie #2 is set by either the merchant or a 3rd party analytics vendor (Coremetrics, Omniture, WebTrends...take your pick) and basically records the same thing, but with a bit more detail about the referral.
    Step 3: Joe Consumer browse Finishline.com, but doesn't actually buy anything during that visit.
    Step 4: 3 days later, Joe Consumer decides to visit Finishline.com, and types the URL into the "Search the Web" field on his home page, which is probably MSN. Since he didn't actually type the URL into the browser's navigation toolbar, he gets the MSN search results page instead of going directly to our site, which shows a number of linsk to Finishline.com, and he clicks on the top link that says "Finish Line - Official Site".
    Step 5: On the transfer from MSN, Cookie #2 is modified to reflect the fact that the most current paid referral is no longer EcomCity, but MSN.
    Step 6: Joe Consumer buys some stuff, and the tracking pixel at checkout for LinkShare sees Cookie #1, and registers the conversion as an affiliate sale.

    So, in this example, you now have LinkShare and the affiliate claiming a successful conversion for the sale based on their own myopic view of the customer's shopping behavior.

    However, standard best practice on the merchant side is to credit the sale to the paid link that actually converted, in this case MSN. In fact, a lot of merchants are now cross-referencing what the affiliate network tell them with what actually happened on the site before they pay their rev share. In this case, while LinkShare and EcomCity would lay claim to the conversion of this customer, that's not what happened, and in many cases you won't get paid. But LinkShare would tout this as a conversion anyway, because they simply have a vested interest in it.

    How can any merchant NOT have higher conversion ratios with highly targeted value-add affiliate traffic then recorded with generic site visitors.
    We usually do, but I can count on one hand the number of affiliates in our program that actually send us "highly targeted value-add affiliate traffic". And by the way, these guys convert really well. If you aren't converting well, then I'm not sure you should point the finger at the merchant.

    It's alarming how easy it is for an affiliate enabled merchant to hide their average affiliate link/click conversion ratio. Damn right they'd better run and hide from the fact they refuse to honor their sites real conversion ratio... when exposed to paying for affiliate traffic/sales.
    This is, quite frankly, a crock of sh*t. There is no conspiracy on the part of the merchant community to screw over the affiliate community, and somehow hide conversion rates. In reality, Marketing managers are getting smarter about how they invest their dollars, and the tools that they have at their disposal are getting better and better at showing them the REAL picture on consumer behavior.

    There is some benchmark data out there, which shows that consumers on average click on 5.4 paid links before they actually buy. If you're not converting early in the game, then you better figure out how to, or get a piece of the last click.

    Here's some proof on why the merchants are gaming the system by rewarding and empowering mass reach (cookied sh*t on the Wall) affiliates, while marginalizing legit value-add affiliates.

    http://www.clickz.com/stats/sectors/...le.php/3496786 Bricks-and-Mortar Retailers See Lower Online Conversion Rates By Sean Michael Kerner.
    What does this have to do with conflicting conversion rates? Bricks-and-Mortar retailers convert lower than pure-plays and catalog retailers for a very simple reason: Consumers are doing a lot of research online, and then buying in the stores. They don't have that option in the other cases.

    Look at the actual merchants conversion ratios compared to what their affiliate network reports from our legit click stats.
    See the example above. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

    Talk about a disconnect from reality.
    My thoughts exactly...

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    OK Finishline has talked to me, basically giving me a reality check on their entire operation. Informative and directly taking this merchant in a direction I know is common. They test the affiliate waters early on, knowing their sporting goods competitors are going there. They play it straight and recruit, support, make creatives and pay their affiliate force, praying they can get some good legit pre-sell affiliates.

    Meanwhile their merchant competition is playing into a consolidation network approach by initiating Brick-n-Mortar Branded Sports Stores into a cross sell datamining test marketing group. Hell, all the real competition of Finishline just goose stepped to jump on the BHO bandwagon. Finishline has 600 stores with a multi million $$$ Ad budget. They also have a mandate to drive sales to their local stores, push group sales, while Branding the Store. Yoiur program migrated rightfully to driving in-store sales and refuse the BHO lure.

    You guys invested in data mining for 2 purposes. Inhouse or out sourced PPCSE campaigns to do SEM using your Analytics packages for best keyword ad links. (Hope that doesn't set a house cookie). Seconf to view into instore paths the sales. That's all the right moves if I was advising you on the State of the Sporting Goods Union.. Keep your affiliate program clean and go direct to drive more traffic as your competitor gag on consumer backlash by popping the Tainted Brand via BHO's. Leverage BizRate, Shopping.com and even Amazon while you Work on the ecatalog and creative choices ( GoldenCan). Then you hope the good affiliates, playing easy money games, come back to the safe base and seek your clean program.

    See I'm rational and appreciate the input on the original question. We now know Brick-n-Mortar affiliate enabled merchants are adobting data mining applications to off load reliance upon the quality of affiliate traffic. Nice to see the affiliates clickstream and compare with the general SERP and paid PPCSE traffic stats. Just make more in roads on getting perminent affiliate showcase placement getting you fresh informed shoppers on some Finishline buzzword branding your superior customer service. You'll do fine if that customer service and your products exceed the expectations of the customers. No sweat. Your off the hook for the obvious bait ( Your general traffic and affiliate conversion ratios) as we know Brick-n-Mortar/etailers bring real customer support expenses to the conversion table. They leverage both sales channels but favor keeping the Brick-n-Mortar business as the way to go. Hey they sell lot's of shoes and hate those online returns on sizing issues. See I'm a quick learner
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  16. #16
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    25
    Mike - I would be more than happy to engage in some spirited debate with you on this subject, but I honestly can't follow what it is you're trying to say here.....sorry.

    So, I'll leave you with this:

    1. Don't take the affiliate network's conversion statistics as gospel. They don't know what they don't know. Which is a lot...

    2. There is no conspiracy on the part of the merchant, to try and screw over the affiliate, or otherwise hide converting sales. I don't know of anyone in this business who wouldn't gladly pay a premium to any affiliate for highly-converted traffic.

    3. If you aren't converting as well as you think you are - and you believe the merchants are running a clean program, then you're being given a level of information about your true conversion that the affiliate network can't give you. Use this to your advantage, and figure out how to convert earlier in the sales cycle.

    Good luck...

  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    you said: "3. If you aren't converting as well as you think you are - and you believe the merchants are running a clean program, then you're being given a level of information about your true conversion that the affiliate network can't give you. Use this to your advantage, and figure out how to convert earlier in the sales cycle."

    Seems counter to your other advice, which was to attack the conversion ratio problem in the LAST STAGE of the buying process. That means using point of sale attack dog tools like coupon/reward/rebates, or a BHO popup leveraging cart abandonment ( open new window and search) to make sure yours is the last cookie set. Basically that sound advice says it's a waste of time even promoting what a merchant sells. Just hawk the SE incentive terms even if they're not currently any valid incent offers.

    The problem with that senerio is a good showcase affiliate making both a shopper friendly and SERP friendly page for the merchant is just sending targeted traffic into the BHO and incenters cookie setting trap. Merchants endorsing this senerio could give a rats ass about the showcase affiliate whines about conversion ratio as their data mining app proves that cookied traffic gets hijacked before or during the checkout process. This artifically, along with the double dipping BHO sales, would inflate the merchants network conversion ratio.

    All this conversion ratio disconnect becomes moot if Finishline gets shoehorned into a Safe Haven Network model. Your 100+ sporting goods competitors jockey for affiliate showcase page exposure based upon published networkwide conversion ratio. If your sincerely seeking online sales you'd embrace this model. You'd have no fear,like in a Brick-n-Mortar Mall, opening up a SHN storefront right next to the GSI stores. www.ecomcity.com/safehaven-network.htm

    My point is I can take any merchant, level the playing field, remove the affiliate white noise (BHO's and cookie stuffers), and let their natural customer service ability, product & price become a factor in closing targeted traffic under the SHN model. My merchant clients don't fear any competitor on a level playing field, and their steady year over year conversion ratio proves it. Adding in 100 new Holdup Suspenders value-add affiliates will not cause that merchant site's 1/20 conversion ratio to drop.... if the cookie cannon incenters and junk traffic perveyors are kept in check. Even Mass advertising Super affiliates like Amazon, Bizrate, Shopping.com all do better then 1/20 under the existing model.

    Physical clicks from the affiliates page creatives are all basically legit and equal. Extra focusing on the "why buy from this merchant", and other motivators, just increases the targeting value. Once dropped at the merchants landing page that value-add is either rewarded ... or negated... based upon their choice of cookie washing diversion practices or partnering with point of sale attack dog cookie cannons. All competing product merchants are created equal. Some have great ethics, pride in customer service, a preceived extra value differenciator to shoppers, and faith in their product lines.

    The easiest way for them to recruit real value-add affiliates is to honestly publish their sites affiliate conversion ratio and challenge affiliates to meet or beat it. Clearwater Creek would have a real hard time proving their affiliates average a 13% conversion ratio as their program is riddled with bad actors. Gone are the days when Overstock duked it out at ABW with TigerDirect for affiliates by publishing their monthly conversion ratios.

    The shelf life of an Overstock return day cookie is now a bad joke. I know I could reshuffle their commission payouts back to their value-add affiliates, while increasing their profit per sale and conversion ratio, with one policy move. Some day soon they might be ready to listen. Until then, only the top POS attack dogs can earn a living promoting them.

    ps Finishline; All the major networks employ clickstream data mining applications parallel to their sales tracking cookie. How else could they hawk a fee based SEM service to merchants and Supers based upon that mined data. Their network conversion stats must scare them into actually competing with their own affiliate base by cutting into PPCSE traffic at the source. In the past they were just middlemen for affiliate traffic. Now they are forced to police their affiliate bad actors or face the music they allow merchants to be victimized by the ROI killing incenters and tricks for clicks players.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  18. #18
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Or, even better, take a page and mix ads for computers, spyware, cameras, kitchen items, jewelry, contacts, Christmas trees, knives, bird feeders, law enforcement equipment, and shoes. I bet you'll be lucky to get a 1/1400 conversion ratio from a page like that.
    So, have you ever seen a page like that, Mike?
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  19. #19
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    3,810
    WOW this thread has blown my mind.

    I think someone needs some ritalin

  20. #20
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    jacked by sylon www.sylonddos.weebly.com
    Posts
    9,618
    Talking
    Quote Originally Posted by Sami B - Uncommon Goods
    Why? Because that information has no value for a potential affiliate when deciding whether to join a program or not, in my opinion.
    Why???

    Maybe affiliates want to join merchants that have a High conversion rate and stay away from merchants with Low conversion rates....

    Maybe some merchants know this and that is why they want to hide their conversion rate from us because if they told us what their low CR was they would have no affiliates.

    Our pages don't put themselves up - we have to work to put them up. Therefore - We want to work on pages that will give us the most return for the time we invest in building the pages.

    Time is money for affiliates.

    Vietnam Veteran 1966-1970 USASA
    ABW Forum Rules - Advertise At ABW

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Nunya, Business
    Posts
    23,684
    It's not Mikes fault that he can't convert with merchants other affiliates have no problems converting with. Never his fault. Perfect example of a crutch mentality. Not once has he taked responsibility for his conversion problems. And he has never taked anybody's advice because his site still looks the same as years ago and will still look the same years from now when he finds somebody else to blame for his problems. And nice to see you breaking ABW rules again. Like you said before you can get away with it.

    As far as conversion rate, i'll take any info a merchant will offer up but in the end the only conversion rate that matters is yours with the merchant. I really could care less how other people are doing with a merchant, what matters is how i do with them. There have been merchants where others have posted they're doing great with and they do nothing for me and vice versa. And lots of factors go into that. In the end I like trying them all out for myself.

  22. #22
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    3,810
    Well his site isn't even up maybe thats why he can't convert

    Edit its up just really slow really really slow and he has a lot of junk on the site. Too cluttered.

    Most people I know who saw a page like this thats still loading after 5 minutes would exit.
    [URL removed]

    He also has a lot of mis information and out dated info Especially on his broadband page.
    Last edited by MichaelColey; October 28th, 2005 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Please don't post affiliate URLs, even if they're ones that the affiliate has posted here himself.

  23. #23
    Affiliate Manager inflatemouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 28th, 2005
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by BurgerBoy
    Maybe affiliates want to join merchants that have a High conversion rate and stay away from merchants with Low conversion rates....

    Maybe some merchants know this and that is why they want to hide their conversion rate from us because if they told us what their low CR was they would have no affiliates.
    Whether you are an AM or a Merchant making money is limited by how well you address customer needs. There is one person in my Associate pool that averages 3-5% conversion in total. But there is one item that they are very good at moving -- for this item they have a 90% for the year.

    Sami is right. If you have the market for the item you should sell it.

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    Mike, no affiliate URLs!!!!!

    Please stop doing it or I'll have to limit your posting abilities.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Guess there's no need to point out to everyone that every coupon site is designed for identical SERP spamming capabilities. Just take your pick and vote for your favorite. Just take a merchant name and add coupons http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...rstock+coupons

    It's so simple even elementary school students could duplicate the thousands of coupon/deal and common feed sites with a broken box of crayons. Long live the Google Coupon Yellow pages, so safe from site copiers. Darn shame the best looking coupon/rebate site is ebates.com. My deleted comments were directed at the Overstock CEO and board members viewing the only value-add they'll see, while spending millions annually, from their top producers. They're struggling to turn a profit and see the huge number of coupons attached to all affiliate generated orders... so they resort to a LiveHelp affiliate cherry picking their ecatalog shoppers. Then find those lazy wanks are pushing coupons and other incentives too.

    In this case posting their conversion ratio should include figures with, or without, incentives attached. Then honestly tell their non-incent affiliates they can forget putting up any pretty shopper friendly showcase pages, as all that traffic just feeds right into the hands of LiveHelp, couponers and the BHO's. You folks want to hear some real whining? Just wait till the new Overstock CEO and new board members make a smart decision. Immediately ban all coupons/rebates/reward creatives going to Linkshare affiliates with termination notices for anyone advertising Overstock coupons or cash back rewards in the SERPs and PPCSE's. They'd eliminate the ROI killing incentive costs from their bottom line, while whacking the SE/PPCSE spamming and grow their Club-O loyality memberships. Hidden benefit would be affiliates would actually then migrate to pushing Overstock discounted goods with on page creatives.

    Cooley could have eliminated the offending URLs. Instead he eliminated the entire message, including the only Linkshare "most creative award" pages ever published at ABW. www.ecomcity.com/watches.htm and www.ecomcity.com/overstock.htm Obviously award winning affiliate example pages do not have a place within the ABW.
    Last edited by ecomcity; October 28th, 2005 at 06:26 PM.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What clickthrough to conversion stats are good??
    By lstolze in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: May 20th, 2005, 12:56 PM
  2. Bogus Cell Phone Merchant?
    By smnet in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 25th, 2003, 07:13 PM
  3. No Conversion stats. for long-established advertisers
    By Azam in forum Commission Junction - CJ
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 28th, 2003, 11:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •