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Thread: Affs using 180 Solutions on Clients

  1. #1
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Affs using 180 Solutions on Clients
    What to do, what to do, what to do.....?

    Pay or not to pay.... public whiping or private beating.... Blog and Forums, PR item maybe....

    Could be a real shame for them, all those pennies earnt...cough! stolen! from so many merchants on Christmas sales.....
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  2. #2
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Just waiting on word back from LS on this nice person, needless to say he's been booted from every program we run....

  3. #3
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    What does the TOS agreement say that they agreed to?

    My first thought is do NOT pay, give the BOOT and while private chastisement is more tactful, it's almost not fair not to let other AMs and merchants (at least on the quiet, somehow) know who is likely to be raking them over the coals.

  4. #4
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Sadly it's a new client so the old T&C didn't cover this or the like. BUT 180 were booted from LinkShare and therefore the use of their software must also fall under the LinkShare Core T&C for what affiliates are not allowed to do.

    I've already posted on AM forums their info so that others can review and take action.

    Cheers

    Chris
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  5. #5
    15 years and counting
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    Chris, great job finding all these "nice" affiliates using 180Solutions at this time of the year and sharing the info with other AMs. I appreciate.
    If you can find them, with no access to all of LinkShare data, just explain why they don't do it on their own. Do they have a different interest?

  6. #6
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    just explain why they don't do it on their own. Do they have a different interest?
    Very good question... Two things that I see.

    1. Lack of Knowledge - Might be new to the role, not had experience or doing it as part of another job and really not looking in any depth at what goes on. These folks can be helped through education, reach out or simply having their program audited for what is going on.

    2. Numbers - AMs who don't care where the sales come from as long as they can show the Head of Marketing and CFO that they are "growing" the business... they don't care if they are carving up the merchants other sales channels and partners as long as they can show growth. These guys can't be educated, helped or stopped, running a program that ads any real value is not what they are interested in.

    It must be huge temptation when a program is growing slowly to justify adding SAHS or allowing an affiliate using 180, Hotbar, Exact, etc etc into the program to "boost up" those numbers.

    Cheers

    Chris
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  7. #7
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    The other issue is, why don't LinkShare catch these people.... it's about time they had the referral tracking improved to show where these sales came from.

  8. #8
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    Linkshare knows where they're at. The same company behind SAHS are available in the merchant list. Networks know about parasites. And they like them because they get a cut on what otherwise would be free traffic to merchants. Goes along with the CEO pushing TM bidding and mentioning cookie stuffing affiliates sites on CBS Marketwatch. Just trying to get their piece. Nothing new.

  9. #9
    15 years and counting
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    That's an honest answer, Chris. It bothers me to see each time LinkShare does something in the right direction, like to improve the referral tracking to show where these sales came from, it has to be done at the expense of the "regular" affiliate. Why do they have to take away the SubID reporting? I don't see any technical pb to leave it on. Not talking about "Athena" and SynergyAnalytics"
    To keep these parasites is only short minded. They knows it's going to backfire on them.

  10. #10
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    LinkShare does know, just because they don't display it does NOT mean they don't record referral URLs.

    And privately fire the affiliate and do not pay those comms - they are stolen from your other affiliates. Find a way to turn those recouped comms into bonuses for your producing affs - they produced those sales anyhow.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    They need these parasites so they can give the new affiliate programs what they promise up front, immediate action. Slap a parasite in a new program and you've got sales that day, whereas, us lowly affiliates sometimes take awhile to get anything new going. These networks are going to keep them as long as they can, and the longer they hang around, the more used to them people are going to be.

  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    and the more those networks will become dependent on them... addicts...

  13. #13
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    That's one of the tough problems they have with these parasites, Donuts. How to pick the right rehab center to survive? It's going to be one of their most important and difficult decisions.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    How to pick the right rehab center to survive?
    Perhaps some guidance may come in the form of a class action lawsuit or a call from their Attorney General. I won't be at all surprised if these networks get caught up with all the legal issues surrounding adware/parasites today.
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  15. #15
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    That's one of the tough problems they have with these parasites, Donuts. How to pick the right rehab center to survive? It's going to be one of their most important and difficult decisions.
    I believe that CJ and LS are too far gone to do it. Maybe the new owners of LS can make a real turn, but the status quo brokers at LS and CJ could never give up their current course. Look at the LS award winners and CJ featured publishers - when I see these things, I know they can't change.

    I haven't heard from Mal lately, but I hope to see how that develops. I am doing a lot with SAS and MyAp lately (always done a lot with MyAp!). I made one bad decision in 2005 - which was to work with a CJ merchant - the merchant is decent, but CJ tracking, management interface, links, referral url reportijng and more are designed to intentionally hide the facts from a reasonable minded aff manager. When I see Chris's ABW byline about being a LinkShare Account Executive, I think "run"!!! I have come to know him better now, but going forward, I will not be working with any new CJ or LS merchants and I'll be working hard to also avoid any programs that are dual platform with their other leg standing in the CJ or LS cess pool. Working in those places means my promotional efforts and considerable ppc spend are benefitting thieves that steal from us all - and I mean "knowing" BHOs and knowing / ignorant / lazy / uninformed affiliate managers & merchants.

    Off to work on my SAS and KB MyAp merchants... will review any good things I see in SR to check them out... will give Mal a try once here... will be trying most things that AndyR is involved with and will give extra consideration to anything he or Chris / AMWSO does, unless it's at CJ or LS.

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Chris I thought Ben Edelman was pressuring LS to devulge where the last-in cookie traffic was originating from in some of his recent outings. Your an LS team player, and should contact Ben to see how their compliance team handled those referral URL requests and what sleuthing solutions are in place at LS.
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  17. #17
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    No surprises the affiliate (Orange Scarf) is claiming they have no clue what we (and a range of other merchants) are talking about.

    Also of concern is that LinkShare have so far said they can't take action against such an affiliate... which to me is one of those "Duh! What!" replies... One kicks out the software owner but then says it's okay for others to use it.... hmm right.... perhaps my question wasn't clear enough for them I'll have another go at explaining it after new year.

    Cheers

    Chris
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  18. #18
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    Chris am I right to say these are the same people that were popping all over my site last year that linkshare did not do anything about then either. I never even heard back from them on the issue.
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  19. #19
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Hi NY

    Can you direct me to the thread that covers it so I can check, usually these guys need not pop nothing as it's done at packet level. But they still need to pop a redirect to send the customer to the target site as part of the process of course.

    Cheers

    Chris
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  20. #20
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    Linkshare could care less about this kind of activity. It makes them money and makes them look good to stupid merchants who don't know better.

    Look for a small shake-up at LS after the first of the year, just to pretend that they are making an effort to kick out the cheaters, but it will not amount to much at all.

    Their lack of ethics is second only to their arrogance.


  21. #21
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    Chris I dont think there is an actual thread it was all done over pm's here
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  22. #22
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Hi NY

    As the nCase based software can target just about anything on the page from folder names to domain names for brand names, if you had a folder called

    http://www.mysite.com/brand/file.htm

    Then yes they could pop off that folder name or any content on the page.

    Cheers

    Chris
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  23. #23
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    perhaps my question wasn't clear enough for them I'll have another go at explaining it after new year.
    Ouch... I didn't like the reply I got, I'm seeking some clarification before I get carried away.....
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  24. #24
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    So, tell us what they said????
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    So, tell us what they said????
    Yes, please do. Go ahead and "carried away" if you want, we don't mind
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