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  1. #1
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    Warning! "Locked" Does NOT mean you will be paid!
    As a CJ "old-timer" member since 1999 -- "Locked" on commissions meant
    that the amount Would be included in the next payment.

    Not anymore ...

    I will have ALOT of commissions missing from my check this month.

    It was explained that the Advertiser did not have Enough Money in their
    Account to pay the Affiliate Commissions by the 10th. So even though
    the commissions are "Locked" they will Not be paid this month -- I'll
    have to wait until next month.

    I have also been told the Advertiser has made a deposit in their account
    that Should cover commissions for December and any made for January.

    Well we Learn something New everyday -- Sometimes its NOT good.

    I will Definitely be more Aware from now on.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    I think I smell a whiff of bullsh**. I had the same thing happen to me, commissions locked but not paid this month, and I asked the merchant. They said they had made their deposits and were all paid up by the time they had run their reversals/extensions/etc through on the 10th. They said I SHOULD be paid. So the problem is most likely on CJ's end.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    As Todd Crawford well knows, this is a real bone of contention with me. CJ allows the merchants a bit of unlimited credit. This is bad enough when you are expecting the money (and need it), but it is worse when the merchant drops out and no one gets paid. I have harped on this for over a year and nothing has changed at CJ. And something SHOULD change. We all need protection. I don't care if CJ does not get paid if we don't get paid. I want some guarantee that I get paid and feel that is CJ's responsibility as the trusted third party.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  4. #4
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7-days
    As Todd Crawford well knows, this is a real bone of contention with me. CJ allows the merchants a bit of unlimited credit. This is bad enough when you are expecting the money (and need it), but it is worse when the merchant drops out and no one gets paid. I have harped on this for over a year and nothing has changed at CJ. And something SHOULD change. We all need protection. I don't care if CJ does not get paid if we don't get paid. I want some guarantee that I get paid and feel that is CJ's responsibility as the trusted third party.
    Amen.

    An "escrow" account is needed, equal to or higher than typical monthly payouts.

    As much as we all ***** about "low funds" and off line merchants at SAS, they at least have a system in place to ensure we get paid and that if the merchant is shady, it will be apparent before we're blindsided, if we make the simple effort to look for the sign (low funds).

    I don't feel one bit sorry for a merchant who "can't pay." We've done our share, made the sale and absolutely deserve compensation, whether or not the merchant can make his car payment that month. "The merchant can't pay" shouldn't even be in the vocabulary base of a network.

    In house programs are another story. We're on our own there, having no choice initially but to trust the merchant or not and if the merchant doesn't pay, we can always come in here and out their sorry ass*s.

    A network is there to BROKER the deals we're making. Brokers rely on escrow accounts for this very reason.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  5. #5
    Moderator Nabz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7-days
    As Todd Crawford well knows, this is a real bone of contention with me. CJ allows the merchants a bit of unlimited credit. This is bad enough when you are expecting the money (and need it), but it is worse when the merchant drops out and no one gets paid. I have harped on this for over a year and nothing has changed at CJ. And something SHOULD change. We all need protection. I don't care if CJ does not get paid if we don't get paid. I want some guarantee that I get paid and feel that is CJ's responsibility as the trusted third party.
    Well said. Though it never happened with me, but it still worries me.

  6. #6
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    Question
    I agree with everything you guys are saying... and CJ isnt the only network I have had this same issue with.

    The problem is we need a unified voice like a union. I wonder if there is a way for affiliates to become part of a union so we can have one voice that stands up for us and provides legal help on matters such as this. Anybody know if something like that would be possible?

    Kimberly

  7. #7
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    CJ should not be able to extend credit on our behalf without our knowledge. The standard procedure at CJ is for merchants to have an escrow account in which they maintain a positive balance. When they make exceptions without telling us, they undermine their credibility.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  8. #8
    Newbie xor0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valenkim
    I agree with everything you guys are saying... and CJ isnt the only network I have had this same issue with.

    The problem is we need a unified voice like a union. I wonder if there is a way for affiliates to become part of a union so we can have one voice that stands up for us and provides legal help on matters such as this. Anybody know if something like that would be possible?

    Kimberly
    Yeah a union is a great idea. Hard to enforce a closed shop though. Right now this whole industry is like the wild west - No regulations, rampant banditry and underhand dealing. Once it becomes generally known how much money is involved then codification and regulation will follow. Right now honest affiliates are at the bottom of the food chain

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Well, once you have been screwded out of your payments for a merchant you have used for two years that stops paying, you realize CJ's system (in this area) is flawed. Overall, CJ pays well and I am happy, but this one thing worries me as an affiliate.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager 1av8r's Avatar
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    CJ is pretty serious about Advertiser balances that run low. Our accounts are always pre-funded in anticipation of next months activity.

    We'll get ample email warnings when certain thresholds are reached, the interface turns obviously red when the situation gets critical and automated controls can turn the program off and you are simply out of business -- that's powerful stuff.

    Like other networks, CJ isn't a bank -- it's a trusted reconciliation platform among other things. CJ helps to ensure that new Advertisers can 'ante up' and demonstrate some financial strength and generally do what they can to help an Advertiser expand.

    If you are a PPC player laying out real capital, then financial strength should be the first thought when considering any program to run -- I mean who would "invest" real capital in a company, yet not once consider the financial strength and its ability to pay as promised? SAS understood this when it indicated whether the Merchants balance was running low -- a nice feature IMO.

    Forget the unions, forget the laywers, forget trying to control any piece of it. Like all (near) perfect marketplaces, with AM its all risk -- you have to choose what level of reward your willing to chase and let natural economic forces prevail. Forums, like the Ebay feedback mechanism, are the key to policing this state.

  11. #11
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1av8r
    Forums, like the Ebay feedback mechanism, are the key to policing this state.
    Agreed. eBay works great because of their feedback program. Maybe we could start something similar here at ABW? List merchants and let everyone post feedback in numerical value: 1 through 10, pick which you feel represents the merchant. Might not hurt their feelings too much unless it was widely publicized and most aff marketers checked a merchant's feedback before joining. But knowing how so many in here hate to divulge which programs work for them, it might not fly for that reason. Too bad. Would be a great indicator and hopefully serve to keep merchants honest and alert, just like on eBay. It's a good policing mechanism but we all need to chip in and give it up to make it work. I've always been willing to share what works for me but won't do so anymore because of what I see here. Don't know if this is serving us well or stopping us from helping this business flourish. Personall, I think it's not helping to hoard valuable information.

    Personally, I'm not afraid of competition. If a merchant converts, others should know about it. Will make the merchant's program stronger and outing the bad ones will make this business stronger and better in the long run. I have relationships with a few competitive web site owners. We share what works for us regularly. It's helped all of us grow even stronger, not hurt an individual's bottom line. Maybe make it a closed thread and charge anyone who hasn't contributed at least 1 positive vote to see it. No clue really, all I know is that eBay feedback works like a charm and I think it would be a great advantage to all of us to know who we can crawl into bed with safely. LOL - Hos helping hos. LMAO
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexanne
    Agreed. eBay works great because of their feedback program. Maybe we could start something similar here at ABW? List merchants and let everyone post feedback in numerical value: 1 through 10, pick which you feel represents the merchant. Might not hurt their feelings too much unless it was widely publicized and most aff marketers checked a merchant's feedback before joining. But knowing how so many in here hate to divulge which programs work for them, it might not fly for that reason. Too bad. Would be a great indicator and hopefully serve to keep merchants honest and alert, just like on eBay. It's a good policing mechanism but we all need to chip in and give it up to make it work. I've always been willing to share what works for me but won't do so anymore because of what I see here. Don't know if this is serving us well or stopping us from helping this business flourish. Personall, I think it's not helping to hoard valuable information.

    Personally, I'm not afraid of competition. If a merchant converts, others should know about it. Will make the merchant's program stronger and outing the bad ones will make this business stronger and better in the long run. I have relationships with a few competitive web site owners. We share what works for us regularly. It's helped all of us grow even stronger, not hurt an individual's bottom line. Maybe make it a closed thread and charge anyone who hasn't contributed at least 1 positive vote to see it. No clue really, all I know is that eBay feedback works like a charm and I think it would be a great advantage to all of us to know who we can crawl into bed with safely. LOL - Hos helping hos. LMAO
    Then we could just post complaints instead of feedbacks, if people are not willing to divulge their best merchants.. at least these would target the really bad ones. Usually I just leave a negative feedback in Ebay if the service is just really bad which could also be the mindset for merchants in CJ.

  13. #13
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo212
    Then we could just post complaints instead of feedbacks, if people are not willing to divulge their best merchants.. at least these would target the really bad ones. Usually I just leave a negative feedback in Ebay if the service is just really bad which could also be the mindset for merchants in CJ.
    Both would be ideal but if only one would work, at least it would be something in the form of genuine feedback, however, I do think positive reinforcement of a merchant is a good thing, too. This feedback forum would work through all networks and in-house programs, not just CJ r it could be set up per network.

    If this was done away from the networks and in the hands of affiliates, it would be a more powerful tool and gauge of just what's going on, like eBay has feedback left by the actual seller and buyer. If a merchant isn't converting, due to parasitic activity or any other reason, they'd be hard-pressed to get any new aff sign ups and others would leave their program on the force of their feedback rating. There'd be no blood for the leaches to suck off if we were all out of the program. Sweet justice. :-)

    Merchants could leave feedback on affiliates, too. Gotta be fair. :-).
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  14. #14
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    Cool
    Quote Originally Posted by 1av8r
    Forget the unions, forget the laywers, forget trying to control any piece of it. Like all (near) perfect marketplaces, with AM its all risk -- you have to choose what level of reward your willing to chase and let natural economic forces prevail. Forums, like the Ebay feedback mechanism, are the key to policing this state.
    That’s easy for you to say... you are a merchant, not an affiliate. Most affiliates are individuals and when we are duped out of our earnings it isn’t just a matter of “company profits are down”. We depend on that money to pay the rent. When we get cheated the money is taken out of our paycheck.

    Put yourself in our shoes. How would you react if you got your paycheck from your company and it was $600 less than you earned and they said… we decided we aren’t going to pay you.

    It sounds like to me that you are attempting to place the blame on the victim... the affiliate.. by saying we should investigate who we promote before we promote them. That is not possible in most cases. Even if a company is financially sound that isn’t a good indicator of how they will treat affiliates.

    We spend time and money to promote these offers. Some of these big companies take advantage of the little guy. That’s not ok.

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