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  1. #1
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    Is the "family" disfunctional?
    Well, as the old saying goes, it is the family members who put the "fun" in disfunctional! I am an outside "insider" or maybe an inside "outsider" in the affiliate marketing game/biz. I am the investment and p.r. part of a newbie on the block. My own livelihood is in realworld (as opposed to cyberworld) business. My primary niche is business development and client relations for ownership/management/vendor services in commecial property(hi-rises and large buidling complexes). The realworld scenario, I've discovered, is not so different in some ways where I expected there to be NO similarities. Likewise, I have found practices and attitudes I would be ashamed of if I found them among my clients and my worthy competitors. I will elaborate. It is normal procedure that affiliate managers periodically send out material to their affiliate marketers. This info specifically states what is for sale, at what price, and generally has some "punched-up" phrasing included. This is what I see on almost every affiliate site that has the same merchant. For example: ABC Clothing sends out a "We're stripping down to our underwear. It's all going at HALF-Price from now 'til Doomsday." (you get the point) The ABC affiliate manager then sends this "blurb" to its multiple affiliate marketers. Each has the RIGHT to USE THE WORDS THAT THE AFFILIATE MANAGER USED IN THE COMPANY'S OWN AD PROMO PIECE! That is PRECISELY WHY it was sent.
    So, let's say that 98% of the marketers plug this info into their blog or whatever on their respective site(s). I have personally discovered in my own business research as I "surfed to learn", that many of the "virtual family" hate each other, backbite, gossip, integrate affiliate managers into nebulous areas of ethics, cry "foul" because their own marketing is failing, do NOT help one another in ANY way whatsoever and seem to relish the drama of playing the evil stepmother to the "kids". I think that some marketers may be somewhat unsophisticated as to the refinement and merit of good business ETHICS and moral behavior. Let's examine this: I have a bidding situation I am in for a client (realworld). I have worked to put my client into the position to be ALWAYS one of the top THREE bidders at all times (in that client's market niche). Now I have also positioned myself, through years of networking and volunteering, and p.r.'ing myself AND my various clients. I am frequently involved, often at meetings with my competitors, in defining the specifications of the proposal requests. Ultimately, if my client does NOT win a bid situation, my goal is that we be at LEAST in 2nd or 3rd place. Nothing else is acceptable if I am doing my homework. But the success or failure is about 75% on me. Of course other dynamics come into play, but in realworld business, I will "do lunch" with my competitors and we will interact over many issues, but as ladies and gentlemen, not sniping gossips. Who knows? We might need each other for something in the future. We even attend each other's various family events, as well as professional ones. BUT WE COMPETE FOR BUSINESS ON AS LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AS POSSIBLE. How do we do this? Because we ourselves hold ourselves to the test. It is we who created the template of business ethics within our professional network. If some upstart comes along to do differently, that individual generally "washes out" quickly - within a year or so - as that kind of business person rats himself out. In realworld business we belong to professional associations where our business behaviors are observed and commented upon by our peers. There is no room for bullies or whiners. Returning to the cyberworld, I recently noticed that a certain marketer became angry with TWO others because those two had the same ad verbage on their sites describing a certain sale. There was much nasty back and forth and the complainant never seemed to realize that this was GENERIC info for ALL participants. The two others (and indeed there were many many more who rightfully posted the ad info. Our complainant simply hadn't researched well.) were offended and tried to explain, albeit in unkind terms. The complainant then threatened to post "all over" that these other poor saps were BAD BAD BAD! Now, what happens? If the complainant does "go postal" and posts things that say "these guys STOLE my site stuff", without the specifics, a number of observers can read that and "make a rush to judgment" that would ultimately prove to be unfair and downright wrong. Merchants might lose respect for the guys who were simply doing what they should. It appears to me, as an observer of your industry's business practices, that a number of AMarketers are working from home and feel therefore that they are not accountable to anyone. How mistaken! In a world of rapidly developing technology, with almost daily NEW tools, ideas and competition, I think there should be a "clearing house" that simply does not post "diatribes" without INVESTIGATION and/or mediation. It looks a bit
    frenetic and unkind. I don't know if I would want to be in THAT daily grind, and I don 't mean coffee. I would prefer the 2.5 freeway hours to a power breakfast with people who deal on the square, even if I may be wrong, I am - in my industry - among my peers and friends - folks who compete but with whom I also share deep respect.
    Are you all willing to consider creating a "stand alone clearing place" to help EDUCATE the AMarketers BEFORE the wild postings are posted and the bad blood stirred up? Ya' gotta do something. You've got a lot of uninformed folks out there who mean well but don't get how the programs REALLY work.
    Thanks for listening to my two cents --- er,,uhhh, my 75 cents with no commission to the affiliates.

  2. #2
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    What?

  3. #3
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    Is the
    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    What?
    C'mon -- don't be droll! You are making my point for me only too graphically!

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
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    I can't figure out what you want. Give it to me in 2 lines or less and to the point and specific.

  5. #5
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    Is the "family" disfuntional?
    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    What?
    C'mon -- don't be droll! You are making my point for me only too graphically!

  6. #6
    Canadienne extraordinaire Susan's Avatar
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    "Are you all willing to consider creating a "stand alone clearing place" to help EDUCATE the AMarketers BEFORE the wild postings are posted and the bad blood stirred up? Ya' gotta do something. You've got a lot of uninformed folks out there who mean well but don't get how the programs REALLY work.
    Thanks for listening to my two cents --- er,,uhhh, my 75 cents with no commission to the affiliates. "

    I THINK this is the request...BUT I could be wrong....
    Susan Arts
    Senior Vice President, Marketing
    Moxy Media

  7. #7
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Simon says?
    Kevin Webster
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  8. #8
    Pimp Duck popdawg's Avatar
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    hunh .... have you met mike?

    You two should get along famously.
    ================================================================
    Been away, now I'm back. Not as much, but I'm back & starting from scratch. Where I was, was fantastic. Where I am now, less so. Things have changed, become harder. So have I. Game ON!!!
    ================================================================

  9. #9
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    My favorite quote lately... From Marlin in "Finding Nemo":
    It's like he's trying to speak to me, I know it. Look, you're really cute, but I can't understand what you're saying. Say the first thing again.
    Paragraphs are such a great invention. We should use more of them.
    Michael Coley
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  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager inflatemouse's Avatar
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    Can one of the moderators put spaces between the paragraphs -- it will be easier to read.

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager inflatemouse's Avatar
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    It seems she is asking:
    "Why is Affiliate Marketing is such an overtly competative environment?"

    and

    "Why are its participants reticent to candidly discuss its inner workings?"

  12. #12
    Roll Tide mobilebadboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inflatemouse
    Can one of the moderators put spaces between the paragraphs -- it will be easier to read.
    Maybe.

    Shawn Kerr (.com) | Disney World | SEC Football

  13. #13
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    <nevermind>
    Last edited by Noth; February 24th, 2006 at 04:32 PM. Reason: I think I'm wrong....
    Kevin Webster
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  14. #14
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    What a n00b, coming in and flaming us this way, with no real understanding of how affiliate marketing culture works!

    Are you all willing to consider creating a "stand alone clearing place" to help EDUCATE the AMarketers BEFORE the wild postings are posted and the bad blood stirred up? Ya' gotta do something. You've got a lot of uninformed folks out there who mean well but don't get how the programs REALLY work.
    Looks like some kind of shill for the "4th party" stuff that keeps coming back up like a bad check...
    And, the answer is NO! The idea sucks, for reasons we've already discussed.

    It is we who created the template of business ethics within our professional network.
    Oh, a busybody who now wants to stick her nose into OUR business~! We've got a surplus of those already. No thanks, not buying, next!
    No ethical person needs someone else's "template," and will be rightfully offended at someone trying to force their ideas of "ethical" on them (as if they don't already have ethics!). And the unethical, they aren't going to get ethicized by the presence of such a thing, anyway.

    I have personally discovered in my own business research as I "surfed to learn", that many of the "virtual family" hate each other, backbite, gossip, integrate affiliate managers into nebulous areas of ethics, cry "foul" because their own marketing is failing, do NOT help one another in ANY way whatsoever and seem to relish the drama of playing the evil stepmother to the "kids".
    Welcome to the Arena.

    There was much nasty back and forth and the complainant never seemed to realize that this was GENERIC info for ALL participants.
    Sounds like you ran across an a-hole. Sucks, but there are a-holes in every business. It's not new...

    It looks a bit
    frenetic and unkind. I don't know if I would want to be in THAT daily grind, and I don 't mean coffee.
    It's not a "daily grind" when nobody's making you do it. If you don't like it, quit doing it!

    It appears to me, as an observer of your industry's business practices, that a number of AMarketers are working from home and feel therefore that they are not accountable to anyone. How mistaken!
    This leads back to my second point: It's a busybody who wants to stick her nose into our business, and impose her idea of how things should work on us. The use of "anyone" seems to be a transparent proxy for "are not accountable TO HER or her ideas of what 'rules' she'd like to bind everyone with.

    Anyone who's bothered by the fact that there are people who are free of corporate bondage (in other words, who are "unaccountable"), is A) weird, B) Not getting the concept, and C) not qualified to make comments about the unenslaved!

    Such people are only happy when everyone is enslaved, whether it be to a company or to some ruleset they've made up. To those people, HARD CHEESE, and go back to your "real" j*b, before they notice that the nuts aren't getting on the bolts!
    Last edited by Leader; February 24th, 2006 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Removed unwanted smiley

  15. #15
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Lorem ipsum ?
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
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  16. #16
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Rodriguez
    Lorem ipsum ?
    Yeah the first post is like that, but I gave my best shot at responding...

  17. #17
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inflatemouse
    Can one of the moderators put spaces between the paragraphs -- it will be easier to read.
    I copied and pasted to notepad, put spaces between the paragraphs, and I was able to read it and understand it better.

    ...

  18. #18
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    It appears to me, as an observer of your industry's business practices, that a number of AMarketers are working from home and feel therefore that they are not accountable to anyone. How mistaken!
    Although I've made comments similar to this before, I think the quote above is erroneous. No affiliate thinks he/she isn't accountable to anyone. They all know where their money comes from, and a good deal of the affiliates, even those who NEVER want to talk to a merchant, know that at the end of the day, they are at least tangentially accountable. If they screw up by using unethical methods, they will lose that revenue stream if the merch and AM are paying attention.
    Kevin Webster
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  19. #19
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
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    Succinctness is appreciated in any industry. Paragraphs are useful, too.

  20. #20
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noth
    No affiliate thinks he/she isn't accountable to anyone. They all know where their money comes from, and a good deal of the affiliates, even those who NEVER want to talk to a merchant, know that at the end of the day, they are at least tangentially accountable. If they screw up by using unethical methods, they will lose that revenue stream if the merch and AM are paying attention.
    I think it's a matter of personal accountability over hiding behind a company or corporation with us.

    And it's really no one's place to tell us, as INDIVIDUALS, how to run our businesses BUT ... I believe that probably most if not all ABWers are honest, responsible marketers and are not out to hurt each other or anyone else, unless that "anyone else" is a nasty ol' parasitic piece of , in which case, they deserve all the complaints they get and will be shunned at the virtual water cooler. It's much like politics in a company or corporation and a huge part of the reason I believe we do what we do ... to stay away from all that mundane crap.

    Shop Girl, who are you and why are you trying to monitor our industry? Are you part of the ethics police? Not trying to discredit your post or make light of a potentially nasty situation, I and I think many others here, don't quite understand what your point is or what you're trying to sell, whether in service or concept. Clarity is a wonderful thing and will get you more respect and not have people in business for THEMSELVES wondering who and/or what you're bashing or trying to say about US, apparently.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  21. #21
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
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    mrmerchant, in a dress. *sigh*

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    I copied and pasted it into the Google translator, choose "Bullshit > English" and it crashed Googles server. Mike where are you when we need a translation???

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Anyway I got the "Bullshit > Redneck" translation working,

    "Wal, as th' old sayin' goes, it is th' fambly members who put th' "fun" in disfunckshunal! Fry mah hide! ah's an outside "insider" o' mebbe an inside "outsider" in th' affiliate marketin' game/biz. ah's th' investment an' p.r. part of a noobie on th' block. Shet mah mouth! Mah own livelihood is in realwo'ld (as opposed t'cyberwo'ld) business. Mah primary niche is business development an' client relashuns fo' ownyship/management/vendo' services in commecial propuhty(hi-rises an' large buidlin' complexes). Th' realwo'ld scenario, I've discovahed, is not so diffrunt in some ways whar ah specked thar t'be NO similarities. Likewise, ah have foun' prackices an' attitudes ah w'd be ashamed of eff'n ah foun' them among mah clients an' mah wo'thy competito's. ah will elabo'ate. It is no'mal procedure thet affiliate managers periodically send out material t'their affiliate marketers. This hyar info specifically states whut is fo' sale, at whut price, an' junerally has some "punched-up" phrasin' included, cuss it all t' tarnation. This hyar is whut ah see on almost ev'ry affiliate site thet has th' same merchant. Fo' example: ABC Clothin' sends out a "We is strippin' down t'our unnerwar. It's all gwine at HALF-Price fum now 'til Doomsday." (yo' git th' point) Th' ABC affiliate manager then sends this hyar "blurb" t'its multiple affiliate marketers. Etch has th' RIGHT t'USE THE WORDS THAT THE AFFILIATE MANAGER USED IN THE COMPANY'S OWN AD PROMO PIECE! Fry mah hide! Thet is PRECISELY WHY it was sent. So, less say thet 98% of th' marketers plug this hyar info into their blog o' whutevah on their respeckive site(s). ah have varmintally discovahed in mah own business research as ah "surfed t'larn", thet menny of th' "virtual fambly" hate etch other, backbite, gostip, integrate affiliate managers into nebulous areas of ethics, cry "foul" on account o' their own marketin' is failin', does NOT he'p one t'other in ANY way whutsoevah an' seem t'relish th' drama of playin' th' evil stepMammy t'th' "kids". ah reckon thet some marketers may be somewhut unsophisticated as t'th' refinement an' merit of fine business ETHICS an' mo'al behavio'. Less examine this: ah have a biddin' situashun ah's in fo' a client (realwo'ld). ah have wawked t'put mah client into th' posishun t'be ALWAYS one of th' top THREE bidders at all times (in thet client's market niche). Now ah have also posishuned mahse'f, through years of netwawkin' an' volunteerin', an' p.r.'in' mahse'f AND mah various clients. ah's frequently involved, offen at meetin's wif mah competito's, in definin' th' specificashuns of th' proposal requests. Ultimately, eff'n mah client does NOT win a bid situashun, mah goal is thet we be at LEAST in 2nd o' 3rd place. Nothin' else is acceppable eff'n ah's doin' mah homewawk. But th' success o' failure is about 75% on me. Of course other dynamics come into play, but in realwo'ld business, ah will "do lunch" wif mah competito's an' we will interack on over menny issues, but as ladies an' juntlemen, not snipin' gostips. Who knows? We might need etch other fo' sumpin in th' future. We even attend etch other's various fambly events, as fine as professhunal ones. BUT WE COMPETE FOR BUSINESS ON AS LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AS POSSIBLE. How does we does this? On account o' we ourselves hold ourselves t'th' test. It is we who created th' template of business ethics wifin our professhunal netwawk. Eff'n some upstart comes along t'do diffruntly, thet indivijool junerally "warshes out" quickly - wifin a year o' so - as thet kind of business varmint rats hisse'f out. In realwo'ld business we belong t'professhunal associashuns whar our business behavio's is obsarved an' commented upon by our peers. Thar is no room fo' bullies o' whiners. Returnin' t'th' cyberwo'ld, ah recently noticed thet a sartin marketer became angry wif TWO others on account o' them two had th' same ad vahbage on their sites dexcribin' a sartin sale. Thar was much nasty back an' fo'th an' th' complainant nevah seemed t'reckanize thet this hyar was GENERIC info fo' ALL participants. Th' two others (an' indeed thar were menny menny mo'e who rightfully posted th' ad info. Our complainant simply hadn't researched fine.) were offended an' tried t'explain, albeit in unkind terms. Th' complainant then thrett uped t'post "all on over" thet these other pore saps were BAD BAD BAD! Fry mah hide! Now, whut happens? Eff'n th' complainant does "go postal" an' posts thin's thet say "these guys STOLE mah site stuff", wifout th' specifics, a number of obsarvers kin read thet an' "make a rush t'judgment" thet'd ultimately prove t'be unfair an' downright wrong, acco'din' t' th' code o' th' heells! Merchants might lose respeck fo' th' guys who were simply doin' whut they sh'd. It appears t'me, as an obsarver of yer indestry's business prackices, thet a number of AMarketers is wawkin' fum home an' feel tharfo'e thet they is not accountable t'ennyone. How mistaken! Fry mah hide! In a wo'ld of rapidly developin' technology, wif almost daily NEW tools, ideas an' competishun, ah reckon thar sh'd be a "clearin' house" thet simply does not post "diatribes" wifout INVESTIGATION an'/o' mediashun. It looks a bit frenetic an' unkind, cuss it all t' tarnation. ah doesn't knows if ah w'd be hankerin' t'be in THAT daily grind, an' ah don 't mean a six pack. ah w'd prefer th' 2.5 freeway hours t'a power bustfast wif varmints who deal on th' square, even eff'n ah may be wrong, ah's - in mah indestry - among mah peers an' friends - folks who compete but wif whom ah also share deep respeck. Is yo' all willin' t'consider creatin' a "stan' alone clearin' place" t'he'p EDUCATE th' AMarketers BEFORE th' wild postin's is posted an' th' bad blood stirred up? Ya' gotta does sumpin. Yo've got a lot of uninfo'med folks out thar who mean fine but doesn't git how th' programs REALLY wawk. Thanks fo' lissenin' t'mah two cents --- er,,uhhh, mah 75 cents wif no commisshun t'th' affiliates."

  24. #24
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJJay
    Anyway I got the "Bullshit > Redneck" translation working,
    You're nuts JJ!
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  25. #25
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    Again, you precisely make my point. That is: you walk into a mall, then into a store - the store is open but the doors are locked, the clothes are old and the cash register doesn't work. The place is all messed up, but the owner who isn't doing the kind of business he/she COULD be doing, just complains that he/she has too much competition.
    Ya' just don't get it...yet! That is because you didn't read it properly.

    Anyway your collective attitude is exactly why so many A. Marketers go out of business in the FIRST year... You would all rather sit and kiss up with each other than look at your reality. I am not a newbie. I FINANCE GOOD affiliate marketers and smart workers in other fields of creative work. Do you think I have to care that YOU are calling ME names? That is what makes naysayers without sound logic LOOK so much like NEMO, a clown fish! I have had my rant and leave happy to have proved myself correct. Play nicely, kids! No sharp objects!

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