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  1. #1
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Vicki

    [ 07-30-2002: Message edited by: Vicki ]

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Vicki,

    Firstly dot com .... $10/yr no more! PM me if you can't find it!

    Secondly, "how much to spend on the cow" I assume you are referring to PPC SEs, If so make sure to set limits for yourself do a monthly deal and stay away from overture or a while till you are ramped up.

    Haiko

  3. #3
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    never mind

    [ 07-30-2002: Message edited by: Vicki ]

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Vicki, according to wordtracker.com the phrase "Better Homes and Gardens" receives no hits. The bids are up to 44 cents.

    google shows about 2000 searches a day for variations but there are 78,000 competing pages for that little bit of traffic.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Make pages specifically for sub terms, and send the milk to the sub term pages, very specifically. Agreed: use wordtracker or the GoTo suggestion tool to get keywords that actually get searched for.

    Most of those 78,000 sites, well take a look at the top ten. Do a link: look up on the top 6. You'd be surprised how easy it might be to break into the top 10 for specific keywords. Aim big. If you don't think you can be a Don Steitz, you never will be. If you at least aim there, well, you might make a very nice amount of money on the way!

    mooooooo!! :eek:

  6. #6
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Moo to you too [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Vicki--

    FindWhat and OverSure are a bit different as to what counts as a good listing (compared to the free engines).

    OverSure's pages display 40 results! So you can be quite a ways off from the mystical "Top 10" and still get noticed. Most of their hits come from partner sites that SUPPOSEDLY show only the top 3 (I get plenty of hits from partner sites on lower-ranked terms), but there's still quite a bit that will see a listing down into the 30's. I believe they get more traffic to their main site than they admit to...

    FindWhat's page shows 25 on a page. So there's about 20 decent spots per term there (people tend to skip reading the last few for some reason).

    Even though I talked about OverSure first, definitely stay away from it for anything without MEGA ($15+) commissions!!! They're quite an efficient shirt-losing method if you're not careful. Plus, there's altogether too much BS required to get new listings in there (and they're going around kicking out old listings, too) anyway. They seem to think they're doing people a favor to take the money!

    You mentioned that you have a HIGHLY COMPETITIVE CATEGORY that you'd like to break into. When it comes to the Boughten Cows of paid listings, stay away from directly hitting the highly competitive stuff, unless you want to do High Stakes Gambling with your commissions. Big companies have more money and also will do dumb stuff like bid 5x what they could possibly make (usually they say it's for "exposure" or "market share")...so you could find yourself playing Chicken against a semi while you're driving a Neon in those cases.

    Now to answer some of those specific questions:

    >How to know how much to spend on the cow,

    The biggest pitfall for new PPC entrants is OVERBIDDING. It's easy to see all those big bids of say, $2 on an item with a $10 commish. Those bidders are called F-O-O-L-S! But when you see that they're paying $2, you may be tricked into thinking that 50c or 20c is a low bid. It's not. On a $10 commish item, 50c is a shirt-losing bid! Remember that 1% CR? A 50c bid would cost you $50 to get a $10 commish! Always base your bids relative to the commission on the item/signup, NOT on what the other bidders are paying!

    $10 commish, 1% CR...Break-even is 10c/click. So bid 2c...that leaves $8 for you. Pick engines where you can bid that, or sell stuff with higher commissions!

    Even if you usually get more than 1% CR, bid as if there'll be only 1%. This covers for the dud merchants who end up with a pathetic (under 1%) CR! Those dud merchants can kill your budget if you assume they'll convert more than 1%, but if you bid for 1% you can cut off the duds before too much damage is done. If a merchant converts better, that's all the more profit for you!

    >when it is worth it to buy the cow,

    When you are so frustrated with trying to get a decent rank in Google, and KEEP it, that you're ready to pull your hair out!!! Search engine optimization may have its points, but MONEY TALKS. Except at OverSure, which has forgotten that it's in business to make money!

    When you want to start seeing some commissions NOW, not in weeks months when you have built up PageRank.

    When you want your listings showing up quick. Good LUCK promoting a 1-month or shorter sale on Google...by the time the listing gets in there, the sale'll be over!

    >do you balk when the big guys have a bigger cow, etc...

    That depends on how many big guys there are. If there's 3 or 4, I don't hesitate one bit. If there's 40 sites all high bidding, that's another thing. If there's one yo-yo obviously overbidding, I just bid low and wait. His money'll run out sooner or later.

    You mentioned having a rather saturated category. It's more strategic to go at these from the "side". The main term may be unattainable (unless you like walking around with no shirt!). But there are lots of peripheral terms for almost every major category. Bid on the cheap terms--they add up in terms of traffic. Except at OverSure, you shouldn't need to make different pages for the sub-terms (as long as they're clearly relevant). And as for OverSure, they can

    This post has gotten long enough so I will stop now...

  8. #8
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Thanks so much to everyone -- such good advice!!!!

    I am working on things now and while it won't be ready for Christmas this year, I will be ready for the next!!

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    clap, clap, clap, clap...

    The sound of applause that Leader takes the time to write such helpful information in an understandable manner. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    The cow has been bought, and bringing members of the herd to visit. How can you track them to see if in fact they make a purchase being refered from the ppc engine rather than the purchase coming from a visitor refered from a fee search engine? Must be a way of doing this otherwise how do you know if paying for visitors was worth it.
    Duh! :rolleyes:
    Thanks
    Cazzie [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  11. #11
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    The easy way is not precisely scientific but it works well enough. Measure how much you sell without the ppc over a week and then measure how much you sell with ppc over a week. The difference is the additional revenue generated by ppc.

    The hard way is to do session tracking on your visitors. With session tracking, you keep track of where each visitor comes from, what path each visitor takes through your site, and which places a visitor clicks out on. You can find some software at www.cgiresourceindex.com - it does cost money to get the more advanced software that will support session tracking.

    Without going for this software, another way would be to set up a whole 'nuther web site that is a replica of your actual web site but which is only for the pay-per-click engines. (You could make it a subdirectroy called 'ppc' for example.) Then the cj tracking software will tell you which web site your purchases are coming from. This may be the only way to measure not only click-throughs but also sales. You could even have separate subdirectories for Overture, FindWhat, Kanoodle, 7Search, Ah-Ha, et cetera.

  12. #12
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    I do something like what Peter suggests, but not to the extent of a complete sub-site. I have a number of single-product, nowhere-to-go-except-the-merchant pages that I use for PPC promotions, and I track them as a separate "site" within my CJ account. This could be broken down further for different PPC search engines, but I'm not worried about that much detail. I figure a person who searches for "buy widgets online" will be about as well targeted in one search engine as another, as long as it's not incentivized.

    I consistently find that my EPCs are higher for the same merchants with PPC promotions as opposed to links on my "regular" site (which I don't usually buy traffic for). While there might be several reasons for this, I think much of it is the high degree of targeting you can do with PPC search phrases. You can bid on words/phrases for which you'd never be found in the regular search engines. As long as the concept is a good match, visitors who find your page through those terms will be well-targeted.

    Some folks who sell their own products find it worthwhile to set up affiliate software for their own use even if they don't plan to actually have affiliates. By using different IDs for different promotions they can track performance closely.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    LOL, my ways are going to seem sooooo low tech!

    If it's a page with low/no Google rank, the sale came from a paid click! That takes care of most of the sales...

    If there's one that's in doubt (and I want to check for the source of the hit), I go through the log files and look for the hit that came in closest to the reported sale time. For high-traffic pages, this doesn't work (there's too many possibilities), but for the low traffic pages, it's an easy matter of looking at the referrer. The hit on my site will show a few minutes before the sale at CJ does, which stands to reason since the person has to decide to buy and then type in all their info.

    If no hit at all shows (when I bother to look), it's a sale that came from a cookie.

    That's how I figure out the ones I'm curious about, FWIW.

  14. #14
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    My method is a little different again.

    Overture now lets you add tags to the url you enter. eg http://www.city-casino.com/?overture

    I would use php or perl to print the page with the ?SID= (or &SID= for those who redirect) (shopper ID.. look it up at CJ help) appended to the CJ link and make everyone who came to the site with ?overture at the end of the url have a SID of 0001 (they can be I think up to 16 digits long, no hyphens, spaces & other stuff)

    Every link will then be tagged with either 'from overture' or 'not from overture'
    The SID is shown on your transaction reports.

    I had a discussion with one of the CJ tech guys at CJU about 1 month before it was shut down about this very topic.

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