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  1. #1
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    Lane’s Gifts v. Google Click Fraud Case

  2. #2
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    get out the server logs...crap this could be big for some people here

    upto 90 mil in refunds wow!

  3. #3
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    No. It is NOT a refund. It is only a credit for more clicks. Big damned help that is for smaller merchants who may have gone under due to being over charged for advertising.

    Google won't have to cough up any cash except to the lawyers.

    This means they will try even harder to send affiliate sites to the bottom of the search results so people will be forced to buy their ads.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  4. #4
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    SSanf,

    your absolutely correct, I knew better, but typed it in wrong (thanks for correcting me...this is a huge difference). The bad part is that anyone who was using direct to advertiser PPC will not have the referral information.

    If I had to bet, i'd say that it's going to cost much less than the 90 allotted for credits.

  5. #5
    Crazy like a fox suzigeek's Avatar
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    I got the email from what ever law firm is doing the class action. I've never used adwords much...
    Suz~~GearGirl~~

  6. #6
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    "This means they will try even harder to send affiliate sites to the bottom of the search results so people will be forced to buy their ads."

    No, this just means that overnite they're going to remove every affiliate site from the search engine and seeing this Yahoo and MSN will do the same to keep up with the goliath. Affiliate marketing is dead.

  7. #7
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    "No, this just means that overnite they're going to remove every affiliate site from the search engine and seeing this Yahoo and MSN will do the same to keep up with the goliath. Affiliate marketing is dead."

    Thrust, I have said exactly the same thing several months ago, but you wouldn't believe me and "I was totaly wrong." " Affiliate marketing will always be there". Or words like this.

    Remember that Thrust? I said something like :

    1) "Google will drop datafeed sites and probably all sites with too many affiliate links.
    2) Datafeed sites mess up Google servers and search results.
    3) If merchants sell less through affiliates, they will advertise more with Adwords.
    4) Froogle gets less competition if affiliates are dropped.
    5) One day MSN and Yahoo will do the same thing."

    So you are not saying anything new. It took some more time to wake up. But you are right, affiliate marketing is going downhill for most of us and it will never go up.

    New statements:
    Content is the future and this will always be there.
    The blog hype will be over also one day.

  8. #8
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    uh I was joking. So you're still totally wrong Downhill

    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...fine%3Asarcasm

  9. #9
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    Oh, as far as datafeed sites, they kind you thought were going to make you a bunch of money, read what I posted 2 years ago, so actually you're agreeing with me:

    "Jason check your PM, i want to show you why sites based solely on feeds/products will make no money in the future."

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=18

    from this thread:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...rchant+catalog

    About what I've always said search engines wanted, relevant results with variety. Dupe feed sites aren't variety.

  10. #10
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    Because AM is not dead yet I am wrong for now, but it is going downhill, so one day you'll agree with me. If you have a content site combined with AM, it is possible to survive and probably it stays that way. But the pure affiliate sites, like datafeeds, are over.

    Myself I am downhill, because my datafeed traffic is somewhere around 10% with twice the amount of sites, compared to good old datafeed times. Whatever you try, like hidding aff links, redirect, adding unique content, javascript links, Google recognizes datafeed sites and filters them down.

    I am in the valley now, but I have found my way slowly up with content sites.

  11. #11
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    "Because AM is not dead yet I am wrong for now, but it is going downhill, so one day you'll agree with me."

    That's false, affiliate marketing just continues to grow and change, won't ever die. But it will for some affiliates.

    "But the pure affiliate sites, like datafeeds, are over."

    I've always said they were crap, specifically those that are nothing but replicated merchant catalogs. Have always said they're pretty much dependent on free SE traffic and nothing but dupe content, merchants will always be more relevant for any product search etc., all there in the link I posted from 2 years ago.
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=18
    There are affiliates that how to use them where they bring value or make them their own. But that's a small percentage.

  12. #12
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    I think the experts in AM will keep on doing well. They have the (secret) knowlegde and know how to get good pagerank.

    The others will have a hard time, because getting high SERP's is not as easy as it use to be. The amount of keywords at search engines stays the same, but the competition for each keyword is harder because the amount of sites is growing. Only the experts can get high SERP's. If you are starting from scratch, you need the search engines to get started. If you can't get high SERP's, you don't come of the ground.

    Because there is more competition, only the experts can survive.

  13. #13
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    You're just talking about one way affiliates can get traffic, SEO for free traffic from the SE's. There are other ways, many other ways. When first starting out most people get their traffic via SEO (free traffic from the search engines) or PPC. As time goes on it's good to learn to generate traffic via other sources, those that do are the ones that survive. Lack of traffic being the main reason affiliates fail. This is the way I've always looked at it and it reminds me of a thread at Webmasterworld where this one guy was doing great and started a thread on my way to $300 a day. I was reading it from time to time and when he said "I consider Google as my base" then I jumped in. And said I've seen many people rely on Google as their base and usually they end up being wiped sooner or later (he ended up being wiped). And I said something along the lines as consider free traffic from Google as a leg. Most people starting out are hopping around on 1 leg. And you can't hop around on one leg forever. You lose that leg, you fall. So as time goes on, grow more legs so if one gets broken you have others to stand on. PPC is another leg. Bookmark traffic/loyalty is another. Growing a newsletter subscriber list is another. Offline advertising another. Keep finding new ways to generate traffic, so when you lose a leg, you might stumble but won't fall. My attempt at analogy

  14. #14
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    Suppose a newbie starts from scratch. He builds a nice looking site. To get started, he needs the search engines. He probably doesn't want to invest money by using ppc for a new site as a start. Bookmarks and newsletter are not a tool for him of getting traffic, because he has no visitors. He gets no links for pagerank, because he has no visitors who can link to him. If he has no links towards his site, Google doesn't find / spider his site.

    I agree, traffic is the main problem, but also the hardest one to solve. Bookmarks and newsletters are good tools for the ones who have found your site already. But for new traffic, Google is number one.

  15. #15
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    Yep, we all have to start somewhere. It is what it is. It's how I started, how most successful affiliates today started. Most people start off being reliant on Google but grow from there. It's not supposed to be easy but it can be done and is being done every day. It's rare someone starts out on day 1 and makes money. Took me months before I got my first sale. But you can still get in the search engines and get nice traffic but it is more competitive nowadays because of the sheer number of sites out there and the amount of new pages every day. It's a business with a high failure rate. Takes hard work, time, persistence and lots of other things.

  16. #16
    CPA Network Rep JohnLeadFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill
    I agree, traffic is the main problem, but also the hardest one to solve. Bookmarks and newsletters are good tools for the ones who have found your site already. But for new traffic, Google is number one.

    Google is great, but I see many affiliates doing better through MSN, Yahoo, etc. and sending a large amount of traffic. I advise our affiliates to play Google in the long run and the other engines for the immediate results. I've seen thin blog sites set up and ranking for great terms in less than a week in MSN. They do not count on the site lasting and just continue putting them out for virtually no cost.

  17. #17
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    Google is the best and has the most searchers, but getting high in Google is very hard.
    If Google sees a site as an thin affiliate, you'll never perform properly in Google because you are filtered down. That's why affiliates perform better in MSN and Yahoo (like me). If a site is not filtered down by Google it will perform a lot better and probably Google will deliver the most visitors.

  18. #18
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill
    I am in the valley now, but I have found my way slowly up with content sites.
    Uphill, what is your definition of a "content site?"
    What would be an example of "good content" within a web page?

    You also said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill
    Content is the future and this will always be there.
    The blog hype will be over also one day.
    Not every blog is written well, but many are, so why would there be a decrease in blog popularity?
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  19. #19
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    Rhia, content is an information site. Can be any subject. Can be large or small. From cars to golf to computer problems. Something like Wikipedia. You can compare it to non-fiction books. It is basicly text with some pictures.

    The most important thing, it has to be unique and informational. It is easy to type pages full of text without saying anything. Readers should says something like "Wauw, I didn't know that" or "This is the info I am looking for."

    The problem with blogs is, it is possible to get high rankings and make money with ads. So some will start abusing this. They make money and start expanding and more abusers will follow. The ones who know the best way to manipulate the search engines, are very often the abusers. I think (I am nor sure about this) there will be a huge growth in blogs and manipulation and once again the top positions are dominated by blogs. So Google will take action and filter them down as he did with datafeed sites. And another problem with blogs is, if you have several good blogs you are using, you'll use Google less. And a Google who needs to make more profit every year doesn't like this.

    Once again I am not sure about blogs, but I think there will be a day when this hype is over. That's why I don't want to spend time on this. I have had my datafeed experience.

    Content sites will never be a problem. Content is the foundation of the Internet.

  20. #20
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill
    The problem with blogs is, it is possible to get high rankings and make money with ads. So some will start abusing this. They make money and start expanding and more abusers will follow. The ones who know the best way to manipulate the search engines, are very often the abusers. I think (I am nor sure about this) there will be a huge growth in blogs and manipulation and once again the top positions are dominated by blogs.
    I believe this has been a trend, so you think the trend is likely to continue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill
    So Google will take action and filter them down as he did with datafeed sites.
    That's interesting. I didn't know that Google penalized datafeed sites.
    What about sites that feature affiliate ads as static?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill
    And another problem with blogs is, if you have several good blogs you are using, you'll use Google less. And a Google who needs to make more profit every year doesn't like this.
    What do you mean by "if you have several good blogs you are using, you'll use Google less"? Do you mean that the blogger will use a different blogging format such as WordPress or TypePad?
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  21. #21
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    Where fraud / abuse is possible, it will happen. If it is possible to make a lot of money with fraud / abuse, it will get out of control and measurements will be taken.

    email > spam > spam filters
    banners > overdoing, anoying > ad blockers
    popups / popunders > overdoing, anoying > block

    Before the datafeed hype, each page has to be created by hand. And only a few had the knowledge to create larger amounts by scripts, so the affiliate pages / sites were limited. Then came the datafeeds and tools like Webmerge. In half an hour you can put thousands op pages online. A wild guess, I think there are far over 10 million datafeed pages online. I had a few hundred of thousands myself. Google has to index them and the top search results were overwelmed by datafeed pages. And each datafeed page is duplicate content, because the merchant has the same. So Google took action. Now the top search results are the merchants again and content site and for now blogs. There are almost no datafeed pages on the top search results anymore in Google. I don't like this, because I am making a lot less money, but I understand Google. Probably I would have done the same if I were Google.

    If you make money this way, you'll expand. If others know this, they start doing the same. One day it will get out of control.

    Content is a different story. If it is unique, you can get high search engine positions. If it is duplicate, probably Google will figure this out one day. He has tools for this. Duplicate content is not forbidden but Google doesn't like it. So duplicate content is not banned, but filtered down in the search results. Same for datafeed pages. It is duplicate content, but not forbidden. Those pages are in Google's index, but only on page 100+ or something like that. That's why those pages still have pagerank. If a page / site is banned, you are not in the index of Google and pagerank is 0. He will still spider this site, but unless you make changes, you'll stay in the basement.

    I don't know which one, but if you add something to the search url in Google, you'll see the search results without filter and these are much higher. I think it is something like &filter

    Google is not against affiliates, but overdoing. He doesn't mind a limited amount of affiliate links, but datafeed sites is reasons for filtering. I don't know how much is allowed. Nobody knows. Google's algoritm is very complicated and probably nobody knows exactly how it works these days.

    Suppose you use a site like http://www.blogwise.com/ You will find a lot of links to info on this site. So you'll use Google less. For a part blogs are competition for Google. If you have a shop, you dont want to promote competitors. Google is a shop and want to make (more) profit.

  22. #22
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    A web page is a web page. A blog is just a page with some html. Also consider it's not in their financial interest to bury blogs since most blogs have what on them? Adsense. There are good and bad blogs, good and bad sites with affiliate links, good and bad sites without affiliate links. You get what you put usually. They target crap, spam, dupe content etc. regardless of where it's at. That's why a lot of the feed sites got zapped because they fell under the crap and dupe content part not because they have affiliate links. My sites are straight up affiliate sites and I have lots of page 1 and result 1 listings for searches. Their goal is to provide the most relevant results for any given search. If you do that, you have a chance.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    In the long run Google will want to skim the 'cream' for their serps.

    The cream is likely original content sites w/adsense. Or household name merchants. Or other sites that are unique in some way.

    Megapage afffiliate sites dont usually qualify. The datafeed sites that are 'tweaked' more will last longer...but end up in the same hole IMO

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