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  1. #1
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Does Your Site Pass?
    Does it pass validation? I am wondering if any site does pass, other than the validation site itself?
    http://validator.w3.org/
    This World is Not My Home
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  2. #2
    Member Art's Avatar
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    Well, most of our sites are validated, but it isn't so easy with the affiliate sites
    (too many javascripts, frames, etc.)

  3. #3
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Mine aren't even close. Google and Yahoo aren't either. Surprisingly, Microsoft is!

    It's a waste of time, IMHO. There no need to follow a standard that no major browser enforces.
    Michael Coley
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  4. #4
    Member Art's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    It's a waste of time, IMHO. There no need to follow a standard that no major browser enforces.
    It's not exactly that At least I'm sure that our validated sites look
    the same under the main used browsers (IE, FF and Opera)
    But if you don't care how your visitors see your site, then the validation
    isn't so important

  5. #5
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    It's apples to oranges. You can make the site look the same with the major browsers without being validated, and you can write validated code that doesn't look the same on different browsers.

    Are you saying that Google and Yahoo don't care how their sites look to visitors? Neither of their sites even come close to validating.

    Most of the things they point out make absolutely no difference. For instance, URLs with ampersands are supposed to use & instead of &. Nobody does that. All the browsers accept it either way.
    Michael Coley
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  6. #6
    Member Art's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    You can make the site look the same with the major browsers without being validated, and you can write validated code that doesn't look the same on different browsers.
    Sure but the validation helps to avoid some code errors

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Are you saying that Google and Yahoo don't care how their sites look to visitors? Neither of their sites even come close to validating.
    Do they care?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Most of the things they point out make absolutely no difference. For instance, URLs with ampersands are supposed to use & instead of &. Nobody does that. All the browsers accept it either way.
    But the validation also "reminds" that you must use alt and title tags with
    the images, which is very useful for SEO and site accessibility purposes

  7. #7
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    It's apples to oranges. You can make the site look the same with the major browsers without being validated, and you can write validated code that doesn't look the same on different browsers.
    This is so true, but for me it's a personal discipline thing. I use the validation check to help me find my layout bugs. It points to that extra <td> floating around in the code. Since I'm checking the validation anyway it doesn't seem hard to go ahead and make it valid. If it's an affiliate site I don't get stressed if the URL is not perfect.


  8. #8
    Yup, Sure ... now let me check ... Cagles Mill's Avatar
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    bumpaw wrote:
    I use the validation check to help me find my layout bugs. It points to that extra <td> floating around in the code.
    That's why I like to use it when I make significant changes to a page or build a new one from scratch. I catch a lot of goofs that way. Plus I figure reducing the errors can't hurt with how well the search engines crawl my pages.

    Of course, like others have already more or less said, the affiliate links never show up as error free.
    Rick M.
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  9. #9
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesehead
    Does it pass validation? I am wondering if any site does pass, other than the validation site itself?
    http://validator.w3.org/
    It's difficult to validate a site with affiliate links, but a webmaster could create a blank/template page and try to validate the page prior to inserting the affiliate links.

    I care more about the appearance of my site(s) in various browsers such as Firefox, IE, Opera, etc...

    I've noticed that what looks good in Firefox doesn't always look great in IE.
    Many people still use the browser that came pre-installed with their computers.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Trying to Win's Avatar
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    My old sites are not validated, but the new one I just designed is.
    Just a squirrel trying to get a nut, in the Internet jungle.

  11. #11
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    I try to clean the errors, but am less concerned with the warnings.

    best tool IMHO Tidy plug in for firefox

    this page has 8 errors and 63 warnings

  12. #12
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    I also validate all my new sites and old sites get validated when they get redesigned using mainly css. All new sites and updates on sites are been made for XHTML 1.0 Transitional which means I run scripts on most affiliate codes & datafeeds to change the html and errors like turning <br> into <br /> and <P> into <p> etc. The only thing I can't validate is the Linkshare tracking images which don't have Alt tags but they are only classed as warnings so they still validate. I often validate sites and then go back in a months time and find a whole lot of things that have changed so I redo them. I think its worth the extra effort. I know MSN likes validated code as I have seen large traffic increases from that. The sites also seem to load faster when validated although thats probably psychological - The biggest benefits of validating is that you get your code nice and clean and lesson chance of errors in browsers.
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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    I usually try to start a site as close to validation as I can. If I alter the site later on, adding bad code on top of bad code might push it over the edge.
    Some speculate that using valid code helps the SE's pick out the content from your pages-but who knows?

  14. #14
    Member Art's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simcat
    Some speculate that using valid code helps the SE's pick out the content from your pages-but who knows?
    Comparing my validated and not-validated sites I'm pretty sure it's true.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador John Kruger's Avatar
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    Just tried this with 41 errors...
    Respectfully,

    John

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  16. #16
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Mine aren't even close. Google and Yahoo aren't either. Surprisingly, Microsoft is!

    It's a waste of time, IMHO. There no need to follow a standard that no major browser enforces.
    I'm with Michael on this, there is no compelling reason to pull your hair out to get validated. It is a waste of most webmaster's time. If you are just starting maybe it is of value... but probably not. And surfers don't give a hoot if you have the validated button or not....
    Deborah Carney
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  17. #17
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    Funny thing is I buy compliant web templates but after I am done they no longer pass. Like my grandmother use to say "No one is gonna get off a horse to look at them." I put validation right up there with web 2.0
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  18. #18
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    What I've always said. Your site validating has nothing to do with the relevance of any given search. The search engines don't even validate, they're error filled just like all of my sites. If you can get them to validate, great. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over it and you're not going to get any SE boost because of it.

  19. #19
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyfalcon
    Like my grandmother use to say "No one is gonna get off a horse to look at them."
    ROFL, I *like* the way your grandmother says things.... I'm gonna be using that line in the future....
    Deborah Carney
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  20. #20
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that error-checking is bad. Error checking is awesome, and everyone should do it. But meeting a standard that no browser enforces is pointless.

    Yahoo's home page currently fails with 257 errors. But absolutely none of those matter. Their page loads just fine in any browser, and has relatively small code. Fixing those 257 "errors" wouldn't provide any benefit for them.
    Michael Coley
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  21. #21
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    I don't agree with the last few posts here, I think this is a lot of mis-information. Validating has many benefits and will be more important in the future. It might not have a huge impact on SEO but it does have many benefits in related areas.
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  22. #22
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    Like....

    What's a related area to SEO that validating will help. I don't see any misinformation in the last few posts. What do you see specifically as misinformation?

    Just checked a page on my main site that is #1 in Google for the keyword I was targetting:

    Result:Failed validation, 220 errors
    This page is not Valid HTML 4.01 Transitional!

    Searchers don't see html. If somebody was looking for shoes, whether or not you have some tag in the wrong place doesn't matter to the searcher. Has nothing to do with the relevancy of any given search.

    Yahoo - Result:Failed validation, 273 errors

    Google - Result:Failed validation, 47 errors

    MSN - Result:Failed validation, 2 errors

    Ebay - Result:Failed validation, 247 errors

    Amazon - Result:Failed validation, 1292 errors

    Damn, Amazon has almost 1300 errors. They better start working on that validation so they start showing up high in the SERPS.
    Last edited by Trust; May 9th, 2006 at 01:26 AM.

  23. #23
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1

    Searchers don't see html. If somebody was looking for shoes, whether or not you have some tag in the wrong place doesn't matter to the searcher. Has nothing to do with the relevancy of any given search.
    Thank God. All my pages failed miserably.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador
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    What's a related area to SEO that validating will help. I don't see any misinformation in the last few posts. What do you see specifically as misinformation?
    The misinformation includes:

    It's a waste of time, IMHO. There no need to follow a standard that no major browser enforces.
    Browsers do rely on valid html to the doctype otherwise you will get all sorts of errors which may or not be visible & it depends on the browser & settings. Javascript errors are common

    there is no compelling reason to pull your hair out to get validated. It is a waste of most webmaster's time. If you are just starting maybe it is of value... but probably not. And surfers don't give a hoot if you have the validated button
    this includes a lot of misinformation, it's in no way a waste of time especially on a new site to code by validation - with older websites that are doing fine then It's probably is easier & maybe better to leave them as they are if they are successful & the visitors continue grow. It's not about displaying a button to your users I don't know anyone who would display a button unless the site is about validating etc.

    Sure the big companies don't need it so much but if you had two identical websites submitted & developed exactly the same, one with messy code & the other with perfectly clean w3 code it would be interesting to see the results.

    The related benefits are:

    - you spend less time on dealing with messy code & errors & more time on other things

    - search engines that do prefer clean code like MSN will give you higher priority

    - in the future it might be much more important to have clean code so better to get it right now

    - one of the main benefits to me is that when coding with css you can often sort out coding errors and get things working the way you want after validating & fixing problems.

    all these above are just benefits that I have just thought of at time of writing & there are more.

    I'm surprised to see I'm one of the few who are pro clean & tidy code & we should be supporting this especially to make sure the Affiliate networks take it seriously, but instead we seem to have a "Who-Cares" attitude here. Don't take it personally if I don't agree with you, its only my opinion and if you don't believe me then I would suggest testing & researching or just continue to ignore browser standards and put up with messy code.
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  25. #25
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Glinted, I can tell you why I have a "bury my head in the sand" attitude: I have no idea what I'm doing. Really. I throw pages together by hand and just make what I think looks good and navigates well for my visitors. I check it it IE and FF and pray for the best with Netscape. My traffic is good so I try not to fuss over the details too much. Much as I'd love a beautifully coded site, it's just not gonna happen unless someone with coding experience decided to help me out. LOL -

    I understand where you're coming from and don't think you're off base at all. I'm just happy my code doesn't have to be perfect to get traffic and sales. If, at some time, Goog decided my site is crap because the code is every way but correct, I'll have to get busy learning what I never wanted to learn: programming and code. Yuck.

    But please keep posting stuff like this and expressing your opinions. It's all important information and expands our brains which is a good thing. :-)
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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