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  1. #1
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    It's Official -- CJ Screws Over Affiliates
    I can't believe the phone call I just had.

    I was just told that it is CJ's policy that if a merchant is past due with CJ and let's say the merchant pays 75% of what is past due, CJ won't release the funds to the affiliates until the merchant is 100% caught up.

    Apparently this is the way the payment script works.

    This 100% bullshit...

    CJ can sit on money that is owed to me as long as the merchant is not 100% paid up.

    CJ can collect interest on money they are sitting on which should be paid out to affiliates.

    Why can't CJ distribute partial payments???? WHY????????

  2. #2
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    and what makes this tough is that no affiliates have been paid since november...but once CJ gets money from the merchant, CJ STILL won't pay anything

    that makes it 100x worse

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador MeeMaw's Avatar
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    What makes it "official"? Did you get certified letter or did they issue a press release?

  4. #4
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    What is CJ's published policy on time limits to pay affiliates monies due? Isn't there some law they could be violating? I'm sure they write every little thing in their policies to cover their butt in just about any situation. There should really be some laws out there to protect us. We are basically employees making the employers (merchants / cj) a lot of money and only taking a small cut and only being paid once per month. Merchants that are behind should be required to have a larger deposit for affiliate payments. All affiliate programs should require merchants to have a minimum deposit in reserve and not send bills at the end of the month and see how long it takes them to pay it.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador MeeMaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpl882
    What is CJ's published policy on time limits to pay affiliates monies due? Isn't there some law they could be violating? I'm sure they write every little thing in their policies to cover their butt in just about any situation. There should really be some laws out there to protect us. We are basically employees making the employers (merchants / cj) a lot of money and only taking a small cut and only being paid once per month. Merchants that are behind should be required to have a larger deposit for affiliate payments. All affiliate programs should require merchants to have a minimum deposit in reserve and not send bills at the end of the month and see how long it takes them to pay it.
    TOS covers them. While in some rare cases you could sue in civil court, I doubt they are breaking any laws. Would cost you more money and time that it's usually worth.

    We all agreed to the same TOS when we joined (heavily modified since I joined I noticed though), but still agreed.

  6. #6
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpl882
    We are basically employees
    Not even close. We're independent contractors.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  7. #7
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    "We are basically employees"

    Watch out, that's Leader bait

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by melty
    I was just told that it is CJ's policy that if a merchant is past due with CJ and let's say the merchant pays 75% of what is past due, CJ won't release the funds to the affiliates until the merchant is 100% caught up.

    Apparently this is the way the payment script works.

    This 100% bullshit...

    CJ can sit on money that is owed to me as long as the merchant is not 100% paid up.

    CJ can collect interest on money they are sitting on which should be paid out to affiliates.

    Why can't CJ distribute partial payments???? WHY????????
    If this is indeed cj's policy, i think it has to do with simplifying their accounting procedures (and earn a little more money at the same time). i mean, if cj has to disburse the partial payment everytime it receives one, it has to account for the disbursement at least twice compared to only one if it waits for the full amount. it is therefore less of a hassle and less confusing.

    i agree, it does earn them interest.

    but as long as the commish eventually reaches my pocket and the waiting period is not that long, i don't really mind.


    However, my question to them would be, why are they even accepting partial payments at all? is a partial payment enough to put off deactivating the merchant's program? so, basically, the merchant is allowed to run it's program on credit. which can increase the potential of the total commish not being paid eventually.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by waytogo
    If this is indeed cj's policy, i think it has to do with simplifying their accounting procedures (and earn a little more money at the same time). i mean, if cj has to disburse the partial payment everytime it receives one, it has to account for the disbursement at least twice compared to only one if it waits for the full amount. it is therefore less of a hassle and less confusing.

    i agree, it does earn them interest.

    but as long as the commish eventually reaches my pocket and the waiting period is not that long, i don't really mind.
    it's the length of time that burns me up.

    affiliates have not been since november by CJ, yet, CJ has *some* money to pay affiliates, but they won't release those funds.

    so there is some money I earned from November - April that can be paid to me and others but CJ won't come off the $$$.

    now, since the merchant is quitting CJ, and let's say they remain 80% paid, suppose it takes CJ another 3, 6 months to collect the money or never collect? if the affiliates don't get a cent, it is completely unfair.

    this would have NEVER been an issue if CJ didn't let the merchant go 6 months without paying and keeping their links active...

  10. #10
    Full Member fg20878's Avatar
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    How much they owe you? I usually drop those advertisers who extend more than 30 days. Don't get mad. Report it to BBB.

    Quote Originally Posted by melty
    I can't believe the phone call I just had.

    I was just told that it is CJ's policy that if a merchant is past due with CJ and let's say the merchant pays 75% of what is past due, CJ won't release the funds to the affiliates until the merchant is 100% caught up.

    Apparently this is the way the payment script works.

    This 100% bullshit...

    CJ can sit on money that is owed to me as long as the merchant is not 100% paid up.

    CJ can collect interest on money they are sitting on which should be paid out to affiliates.

    Why can't CJ distribute partial payments???? WHY????????

  11. #11
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    "We are basically employees"

    Employees and affiliates are not even close to being the same thing. There are no 'rights' involved with B2B (business to business) operations. If you don't like something you can sue as this is a civil matter.. not one for the criminal courts. As affiliates or business owners ourselves we have little in the way of 'rights' The law's attitude is that if you don't like it...don't do business with them...or if you feel they are unfairly breaking the agreement you can sue...

    BBB will do little as well. If the company doesn't care about their rating they will ignore it... it's not like the BBB has any power over anyone. They can not enforce the affiliate agreement in order to get them to pay you. Once you file with the BBB companies often get their back up since you have already given them a black mark because even if they resolve the issue it's still on their record for a year I think (not sure of the time period). Therefore not really an incentive to help you out. The only time it's a problem for the company is when many people file with them....then that hurts their rating... but again that's only if they give a dam

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    But what if you do business with another business, and they fail to pay you according to their terms?

    I'm sure if I got paid for a service, or product, and I didn't deliver, that there would be grounds for legal action.

    Just thinking. I've yet to really have this problem, but I keep reading others and their troubles. It's a shame.

  13. #13
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    But what if you do business with another business, and they fail to pay you according to their terms?
    If a business owes another business money and fails to pay there is no criminal legal action you can take...only civil ( You can sue).... Welcome to the world of business

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    That just stinks. There's got to be better protection for this kind of thing. God forbid I'd have a 5k check waiting for me, only to be held back b/c someone decides not to pay.

    Wonder if there's anything in the works to resolve things like this (Shows you how much I keep up).

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    You are forgetting the "KEYWORD" here! "TRUSTED THIRD PARTY"
    Collecting the money is CJ's job and not ours. They are supposed to act on the affiliates behalf and see that we get paid. Actually the affiliates should come first as we have no real contact with the merchant. Do you not agree that without affilates CJ is nothing? If every affiliate boycotted CJ where would they be? They would have no revenue coming in! Am I wrong?

  16. #16
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mailman
    You are forgetting the "KEYWORD" here! "TRUSTED THIRD PARTY"
    Collecting the money is CJ's job and not ours. They are supposed to act on the affiliates behalf and see that we get paid. Actually the affiliates should come first as we have no real contact with the merchant. Do you not agree that without affilates CJ is nothing? If every affiliate boycotted CJ where would they be? They would have no revenue coming in! Am I wrong?
    You are not wrong....but the other keyword here is 'if' We make quite a few thousand of CJ every month? Do you think that we and others making that kind of money is going to boycott? Not likely. If someone doesn't pay you ....remove the links and move on. Harsh as that is...this is business and there is no one looking after you in this world (of business) You have to make your own choices and take the bad with the good.

  17. #17
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    That just stinks. There's got to be better protection for this kind of thing. God forbid I'd have a 5k check waiting for me, only to be held back b/c someone decides not to pay.

    Wonder if there's anything in the works to resolve things like this (Shows you how much I keep up).
    CJ should in my opinion take the responsiblity ...but obviously they don't so end of story....They are not going to reverse policy that would affect their bottom line ....they know there is little we can do except sue and they better owe you more than just a few grand to make it worth the lawyers. It's just business...it's not fair...it's business... no one ever said business was fair... The only thing that would affect CJ is if their big players left them to start their own affiliate company or change to someone else... There is no protection for B2B transactions unless fraud was 'intended'. Since you and I agreed to their TOS they are covered.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Well, I have yet to lose anything, but that's b/c I'm still somewhat new. Wonder how many in this thread have lost big money...

  19. #19
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I think it's bogus that CJ doesn't eventually fork out the money if the merchant is in partial arrears. There should be a cutoff, after which they suck it up and pay regardless of it ending up in a double or triple disbursement. That being a pain in their accountant's butt doesn't make it okay to just not pay!!!

    "We are basically employees"
    No, we are NOT slaves (aka employees). I will try to avoid general commentary against the Evil Institution of employment for now, though, and concentrate on a misperception that seems to be present about employment:

    Plus, the idea that regular employees never have to deal with rot is incorrect. There are employers who follow the laws--and, there are those who have to be "encouraged" by legal actions. It's NOT SAFER to be an employee!

    To get their "legal protections" out of the rotten variety of employers, the employees often have to take Action. It's not like all employers obey the labor laws. SOME DON'T. Sometimes the biggest difference between suing CJ and getting an employer to do right, is that employees b*tch to the Department of Labor and/or OHSA instead of directly filing a civil suit. Sometimes, it takes both before improvement happens. Wal-Mart is a well-known magnet of such lawsuits, but they are far from the only blighted company that has to feel the hammer of a labor lawsuit before they stop their wrongdoing (or, like Wal-Mart, they keep being blighted anyway! That place has been fined multiple times!).

    Sometimes, employers don't pay up either. There's a member of my family who had to race the other employees to the bank--because there was only funds available for 1 or 2 checks! Slowpokes were SOL, their checks bounced...The place finally did pay them, but it took lots of complaining and delayed their payment. This wasn't an isolated incident nor was it just one employer, either! Smaller places are more prone to that nonsense than would be expected by people who've only worked for big companies.

    Even when it doesn't amount to a whole paycheck, companies who decide to do something blighted count on the fact that most won't bother to sue (or get a government agency to sue for them). If they think each individual employee will be affected below the threshhold where it's worth suing over, they get up to all kinds of rot.

    Example of what seems like a "little" rot that adds up to a fairly large amount for the company:

    Consider a place that says, "you have to show up 5 minutes before your shift to get your assignments (for free) or you're fired." That's illegal! The law says, you have to be paid for ALL work done (and getting your assignment for the day is legally "work" because you Had To do it). Multiplied by 100 employees, that's 500 minutes worth of free work A DAY the place that orders such a thing steals. $83/day * 50, 5-day weeks (2 week vacation) = $20,750/yr stolen.

    But they count on it that nobody's going to bother suing about their personal 5 minutes/day (83c @ $10/hr), so the rot continues.

    This theft, and other forms of theft from employees goes on all the time. There is no more protection for employees than for the free--labor laws mean nothing until someone enforces them!

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