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  1. #1
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    Could somebody provide me with the link to check trademarked terms...I couldn't find it from when Mrs Lisa was have difficulty...I have a customer that is having issues right now over a Trademark, and I need the link fairly quickly!!!! Thanks guys!!!!

    Tom Pyles

    [edited because I'm an idiot and used 'copyright' instead of 'trademark']

    [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: TH Media ]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Don't know what link that was, but I found a trademark search at http://www.nameprotect.com/index.html using google.

  3. #3
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    Qball...I owe you a beer (if your 21 [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]) That should work....thanks!!!!


    Tom

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Been over 21 for 13 years, been drinking for 19, hehe

  5. #5
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    Not sure if you're talking about trademark or copyright, but here you go...

    Copyright - US Code
    Trademark - US Code
    Trademark Information

    Hope they help.

    Oops, deleted wrong link to CFR.

    [ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: AT ]

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Tom,

    (C) Law is dif than TM Law!
    http://www.uspto.gov for TMs and the link qball gave might even be better [img]tongue.gif[/img]

    But (C) Law is obtuse ... depends on many things ... PM me if you need help

    Haiko

  7. #7
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    Thanks guys for all of the help...It is all rather petty. One of my webhosting customers contacted me about an e-mail he received (keep in mind he was my FIRST webhosting customer, and we have been friends ever since...I also have his permission to publish the details). He is a musician, and a long time ago, he set up one of those donation pages at amazon. He chose the username 'songwriter4u' He closed the account a long time ago, but amazon still has the page up..well..Some woman registered the domain 'songwriter4u.com' just last week, then accused him of 'squatting' on her domain name. I wanted the link to check the TM on the term 'songwriter4u' and other variations...She also had a few quotes that sounded much like threats...I sent her a great letter...I will be more than happy to post it if you guys don't mind

    Tom Pyles

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Tom,

    She's got beans!

    Post it ... we need the laughs! Also tell us if you need the ABW posse [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  9. #9
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    I can now tout our company over the competition [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Now...for the characters of the story...Doug Fitch is the musician...Nichole is Dougs PR person... All bold is directly from the womans complaint.


    Ms *****,
    A country artist by the name Doug Fitch, of whom I represent, has contacted me about an issue you are having with the name 'songwriter4u'. Doug used this as a 'handle' or log-in name at amazon.com for a donation service that they offer. Doug has not used this account for some time, and Amazon has informed me that his account is no longer open (even though the handle may still be locked out in there database). Our technical staff has looked over his site, both pages available to the public, and those pages that are not. There is absolutely no reference to this Amazon donation service anywhere on our servers. I do not know where you received information about Dougs account. By chance was it from a search engine, as many search engines cache web pages for some time. Perhaps it was another website. If this is the case, then perhaps you should take the issue up with that search engine or website. Doug (nor anyone for that matter) can control what another websites references, and we would not be legally responsible for content found on another site. I see many websites that reference the term 'songwriter4u'. Many of those sites are links to your website. Does this make you liable for content on those other sites.

    I would like to address some more issues in your correspondence with Doug:

    Please stop using my domain name on a fake amazon honors page trying to collect money for yourself!

    Doug is not using your domain name on a 'Fake' honors page. Nor is Doug claiming that he represents you or has anything to do with you or your music and 'collecting money for yourself'. His is by no means claiming to be songwriter4you.com As I previously stated, the term was used as an id with Amazon. This is different than a domain name.

    I am sure you are aware that domain names are purchaesed and registered with internic.
    I sent the 'Doug Fitch/songwriter 4u' Amazon Honors page to Amazon, and they informed me whoever put up that
    page was not an amazon member. If you indeed are trying to help a person named 'doug fitch' then you should realize that squatter's rights are not applicable to internet domain names. I wish you well with your music, however'mr fitch' looks alot like a man who has conned me out of money in the past. He bears an uncanny resemblance to doug lunceford, aka nathan clay.


    Perhaps you should take a lesson in how domain names work. You mention squatters rights to your domain name. First, let me point out that Dougs registration with Amazon was quite some time ago. According to the registration with your domain name, you recently purchased the domain name just late last month. I still retain a copy of Dougs registration, which took place well before your domain name registration. So in your scenario, would this make you the squatter? I also suggest you contact ICANN and research what constitutes squatting on a domain name. Did you know that the domain names 'songwriter4u.NET' and 'songwriter4u.ORG' is available (I'm sure all of the other ones are too, such as .info, .tv. .am .fm, etc). Did you also know that I could register this domain name right now, and you would have no legal right to it. Research ICANN and you will see how they would rule in this situation. Issues like this involve TRADEMARKS. That is why you could not register a domain name involving the term PEPSI, or Addidas, and so on. These are TRADEMARKED terms.

    I just went through the trademark registry, and I see that the terms 'songwriter4u' and different variations were never trademarked by you. This means (and ICANN agrees) that you have no legal right to stop anyone from using that term. If you trademark it, then you would have a case. Unfortunately, the dates on these e-mails and the records from Amazon would obviously have come before your trademark registration (should you trademark it right now) and would show that any use of the term 'songwriter4u' on Dougs behalf took place before your registration.
    Also referencing your communication with both Doug and Nichole, you are accusing Doug of 'looking' like somebody who has 'conned money' from you. This sounds much like an accusation on your part. Are you sure you even want to take that route. You think you have some case against Doug, and with references like that, you are opening yourself up to a case against yourself. Since Doug is an established musician, has released many albums, and sold many albums, that quote could get you into legal trouble for even suggesting that Doug had something with you being conned out of money. I also noticed that your subject line in the e-mails to Doug reference 'squatters rights' and 'con-men'.


    You put it up.You take it down:

    within 24 hrs. What if someone DID put up a site
    using the 'doug fitch'name in a derogatory way?


    While you are studying domain name issues, perhaps you should look into hiring a lawyer. A lawyer will tell you that you cannot issue a statement like this. With an Ultimatum such as this, it is construed as a threat. What if the Amazon page is still there in 24 hours. Keep in mind that Doug does not have this account with Amazon anymore (according to Amazon, not Doug). This means that Amazon is responsible for removing the page from their servers. In order for them to remove the page, or for Doug to attempt to do anything, you will have your lawyer send both Amazon and Doug an 'cease and desist' order. Sending out a threat to anybody telling them that they have 24 hours to meet your demands or face the consequences means nothing legally, and can be used against you.


    Hmmmmmmm?
    That's how I feel about my domain name being associated with you. And the other sites on 'nicholes'.com
    I'm not a Jehovah's witness ,or a quacker. Would you like to be associated with MY beliefs?


    Again, Doug has claimed NO ASSOCIATION with you, or claimed to represent you in anyway.


    Don't use my domain name.I'm giving you fair warning. I can be a formidable foe or a powerful ally.I always let the other guy choose.And it's a small small world. I repeat: DO NOT USE MY DOMAIN NAME!
    'whatever you do to the least of your brothers, that
    you do unto me'

    Perhaps you would like to rethink this statement. Again, a threat towards Doug and those that represent him. We do graciously appreciate the fair warning.
    Now a few warnings to you. I have explained thoroughly that you have no case of any sort against Doug Fitch, or anyone who represents him, or his music. Your term is not trademarked, and a registration of a domain name does not constitute a trademark. Dougs use of the term 'songwriter4u' or anybody elses use of the term, will not be supported by ICANN as a violation against your domain name. If you feel that confident in it, I suggest you go through ICANN and bring your case against Doug. If you read the fine print from ICANN, you will also be giving up the domain name until the issue is resolved. Since the Amazon issue came well before your registration, you could very well lose your use of the Domain Name. Again, I suggest you contact Amazon about removal of the page. It resides on their servers, they will take it down, after you get an order to do so. I also suggest that you stop your accusations that Doug is someone who 'conned' you out of money. You are slandering a well known musician, and there is nothing to support your accusation, and everything is there to say otherwise. Now, here is something for you. Since I have had to take the time out from our company to handle your threats and accusations against somebody we represent, I could actually bill you for my time involved. This is also being turned over to our legal department. We are located in the Commonwealth of Virginia, and Virginia law states that our company could go after you for all legal fees to fight your accusations and threats, and hold you responsible for the time that our employees (including myself) have to spend on this matter..Since we represent Doug Fitch, all legal matters and further correspondence should be addressed to us. This means that you should suspend all contact with Doug Fitch, Nichole Shafer, Catiii Music Publishers. You can send all correspondence and your legal filings to:

    TH Media
    PO Box 139
    Vienna, VA 22183
    legal@thmedia.net

    I also agree to send all correspondence to your legal department, or to you personally if you so desire. Please verify this info:
    ****
    Address Removed for...
    ****

    Lastly, from somebody who deals with issues like this, I strongly suggest that you register all domain names that reference the term 'songwriter4u', including the .net, .info, .org, etc. I also suggest that you trademark the term to protect yourself. While you will not have a case against Doug Fitch, this could help you in the future.


    Tom Pyles
    TH Media http://www.thmedia.net

  10. #10
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Good letter.

    I would have called the woman a fruitcake by now (of course, I'm sure she's not a fruitcake nor any other kind of cake-related item).

  11. #11
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    Here is the response I received today.

    **********
    Maybe you should let INTERNIC know that they
    researched and checked a name that was in use?
    YOU ARE BOGUS .
    Why did your no -talent friend deny knowing anything
    about the amazon page?
    He said:
    " I have no interest of any sort in you or your domain
    name. Why don't you tell Amazon to take down the
    offensive page in question if it was not created by a
    valid member, especially if it has MY name on it?!
    (It wouldn't be the first time someone used my name in
    vain.)"~~'Doug Fitch'

    He has no interest in my domain name?

    I am being defamed by your group, or someone you
    purport to represent.

    I am not wasting my time with you .YOU ARE BOGUS.
    FINAL WARNING:
    STOP USING MY DOMAIN NAME. MY REPUTATION WOULD BE
    DEFAMED BY ASSOCIATION WITH YOU and YOUR ACTIVITIES.

    I'll put a disclaimer on my site so all will see I
    have no connection with you. And they will know your
    true colors. I may publish everything you have written
    in these emails. Nothing more than HACKERS.I know more
    about you than you realize.

    PS No offense but his music is nothing more than
    slightly
    synchronized crashing noise, and he sings like a cow
    who is lying on a railroad track dying

    Here is my response

    Gaye,
    Thank you for your reply. For starters, Doug's response to you about not
    having set it was directly from your accusation. You claimed that he set up
    a fake page, and Amazon confirmed this with you. His response is that if it
    was a fake page, then have amazon remove it. How could he remove it a fake
    page on their servers. He didn't deny that it was never his page, but you
    accused him of setting up something that was never Fake. Also, I have been
    in touch with our rep at Amazon. They have no record of ever providing you
    with any information, and you were never informed that Doug was not a
    member by Amazon. I again, ask you to talk to a lawyer before you approach
    us telling us lies like that. I have also informed our rep at Amazon that
    you are claiming to receive information from that that you never received.


    You claim that you are being defamed by us. In what way? You registered a
    domain that was available. Again, I point out the dates in question. The
    username at Amazon was in use well before your registration. That is all it
    is, a username registration. Have you contacted every website that has
    somebody using the username of 'songwriter4u'. I can provide you with a
    list of websites that have users, that aren't you, using that name. You
    would also have to go after all of them too. Again, I remind you that the
    use of the term was well before your registration.

    It's funny how you call us Bogus. Our company hosts websites for several
    thousand radio stations, musicians, recording studios, and many others. We
    have been an established company in the music community for quite some time.
    We also work with several major record labels. If you would like a list of
    the companies we handle, I will be more than glad to provide a list to you.
    Besides, it will probably be the only contact you will ever have with the
    likes of Columbia and WEA.

    As for us being a bunch of 'HACKERS'. Again, reread the above statement. If
    you think the Carbon Copy to our lawyers was 'BOGUS', we do have lawyers
    that work with us. Most of their work involves people copying lyrics of our
    artists. They will be more than happy to address this issue with you.
    Again, you should consider hiring a lawyer as well. Since you see to
    nothing but rant and rave on about us being bogus, and not even addressing
    the issue, I assume that you realize that you would have no case at all.
    Feel free to put a disclaimer on your site. Secondly, please feel free to
    publish any of our letters to you. Everything I speak to you about is
    truthful (unlike your e-mails to us), and is legal. You obviously don't
    know the legal issues involved here, and I am kindly explaining them to
    you. Take it for what it is worth. I will also be more than happy to
    contact ICANN about the domain issue (like you encourage me to do). They
    will suspend usage of the domain name entirely until there is a judgement
    hearing. That can take up to a year, sometimes longer. Are you willing to
    give up the domain name for that amount of time. And when they don't find
    in your favor, you will lose the domain name to us. I'm willing to have at
    it if you are.

    Lastly, I find it funny that you are critical of Dougs music. That is fine,
    if you don't like it. I just find it strange that you go around quoting the
    bible, touting representation of Christian Musicians, yet you act like a
    child by name calling to musicians that you don't like. In your previous e-
    mail, you mention us having a 'choice'. I'd like to inform you that the
    choice has been made on this end, and I hope you are ready. One of our
    lawyers will be calling you soon to discuss this matter with you soon.
    Again, Virginia law states that we can hold you responsible for all legal
    fees.


    Tom Pyles
    TH Media http://www.thmedia.net

    Am I having too much fun with this...do you guys have an opinion. The guy that handles our legal stuff will be calling her tonight, attempting to explain that using a username at a website isn't a domain name registration.

    [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: TH Media ]

  12. #12
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    Have fun. It's craziness, so you might as get whatever chuckles you can out of it! (I suspect God will be rather embarrassed by the "Christian" aspect.)

    Elisabeth Archambault

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador parentsworld's Avatar
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    I am sick of people advertising themselves as "christians" and yet sending you stuff like this. My gosh, anyone with manners abuve childhood level would state facts not try and make fun of the other person.

    Knock it to her -- I think she deserves a wake up call. And I'm impressed, you never once mentioned what a piece of sh*t her site was!

  14. #14
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    Thanks guys (and gals). Yeah, I don't have to tell you about her site. I have so much that I'm dying to say to her. I've always believed in being professional about all matters, and think that we have been somewhat successful by being professional. I've dealt with people like this in the past, and ignorance of both the law, and the workings of domain names (not like it's any secret) will be her downfall. Usually, I try to educate people first...then when they say I'm 'Bogus'...well...what can you do? I'm seriously considering registering the other domain names, and putting all of these e-mails on there. I'll also add a user forum so others can explain how it works.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  15. #15
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    Poor Tom... Now it's your turn to try and convince a psycho to give it up with a trademark infringement accusation .
    I wouldn't waste too much time on her, that woman sounds like an escapee from the looney bin.


    I don't know... Ya think she could be a relation to Gail and Eugene Zannon from Freeeeeeeeeeebies ? They seem to display some genetic similarities .
    :rolleyes:

    Lisa

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Dear Citizens of The World.......we must create a spiritual alliance~surrender our fears and selfish goals,so all may benefit.The true power of earth is not government leaders but LOVE.Far more is unseen than seen in our wondrous universe.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think this person needs to read what they have written on their webpage. Especially about surrendering fears and selfish goals!

    Remember, not all persons who choose to call themselves Christians actually are. Others of us hang our heads in shame and embarassment when we see this kind of thing bringing disrepute to the followers of Christ.

  17. #17
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Not all Christians are nutcases but I'm starting to think all nutcases are Christian or at least they claim to be.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador parentsworld's Avatar
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    Maybe it's just the day I'm having but that statement cracks me up [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I'm thinking I have to agree with you.

  19. #19
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    Heyder;

    Unfortunately, it may seem that way. However, let's not forget that all religions spawn nutcases when their core teachings are distorted (Remember Sept. 11?)

  20. #20
    Assistant Regional Manager Rik's Avatar
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    Hi Tom.

    I think you treated that issue in a very professional manner. If I got a message like that I probably would have done a Big Chuck on her. [img]tongue.gif[/img] (just kidding Chuckster) If I'm ever in that type of situation I'll follow your lead.

    [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Rik ]

  21. #21
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    Not that my sites are fantastically put together but she could sure use some web site building advise from ppl in here

  22. #22
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    I appreciate everybodies response to this. Thanks for the compliments about being professional, however, it may be time to 'change that policy'. For your ongoing drama, here is the latest:

    ******

    since asking your client to stop using my domain name
    Here's link to the law stating trademarks are used
    OFFLINE, domains are the trademark ONLINE) http://mbendi.co.za/werksmns/net_law/guide03.htm#Trade


    I have been threatened, harassed, had vulgar
    threatening language sent here by dolly and suzy,
    karina, julie,nichole, etc.,etc.here, at least a dozen
    emails from attbi.com and your thmedia.com.(some bank
    collection service you have going,tom.)

    I will take it all to my local police dept., and
    make sure a restraining order is in effect in Ohio as
    you have stated you have an address/telephone # for
    me.
    You people are scary. We are a lawbiding family
    attempting to live honest lives. You have destroyed
    our safety on the www. You and your associates are
    scary people. I will need police protection, and legal
    assistance immediately.

    I am working on a response right now [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  23. #23
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    Here is my response:

    Gaye,
    You claim that you feel threatened by us. All I have done is inform you
    of the law. You are the one who threatens us, defames us by calling us
    hackers and 'goons' and we have threatened your safety. You are the one who
    keeps saying that we registered your domain name. I tried to be patient with
    you and explain things to you. Did you know know that the term
    'songwriter4u' is in use all over the net. Check hotmail.com somebody has
    songwriter4u@hotmail.com. Check the same thing at mail.com. In fact, visit
    everyone.net who offer free e-mail to thousands of websites. There are over
    500 of those sites that have a user by 'songwriter4u'. And, anybody can sign
    up at those other thousands of sites. We are not using your domain name. If
    you type in songwriter4u.com where does it go. It goes to your site. So,
    explain how we are using your domain. Also, as for us having your address.
    You can't be that stupid!!! Do you know that your domain information shows
    up on thousands of websites. I'm sure you've heard of the company Network
    Solutions, the company that handles domain name registrations? Take a look
    at their website at netsol.com and click on the button at the top that says
    'whois'. Here is what they (and thousands of others) have on their website:

    [WHOIS INFO WAS PLACED HERE, BUT REMOVED TO SAVE SPACE]


    Now, you want to call your local police department. I say go ahead. I have
    not threatened you in any way. I have not harassed you in any way. You
    accuse me and our artists of something, and I respond. I have been nothing
    but nice to you, while you have done nothing but thrown insults and threats
    against us. I have been professional with you, and expected the same in
    return. Obviously, I expected too much from somebody such as yourself. You
    also claim that you should seek legal advice. Is this a threat like you are
    going to take legal action. I have told you in every e-mail to seek legal
    counsel. Did you think you could just run around and make accusations and
    threats against a company and not have their legal team respond to address
    your concerns? You brought this issue to the table, I tried to explain it
    to you, and yet you respond with more diatribes and threats. If you are such
    a legal expert, here's one for you. Did you know that your threats to bring
    a case against us is illegal if you have no intent to do so. Threatening
    somebody with legal action to get your way, and not acting upon it is
    illegal. It would be the same as me threatening to sue you if you didn't
    keep your yard a certain way. So, you threaten us with legal action, and I
    turned it over to my legal team. I really do suggest that you get a lawyer.
    I have sent my contact information to you, not hiding our identity at all. I
    guess you have ruined my whole experience on the net since you know where I
    work. Since you tell me that you are calling the police, I have decided to
    respond in turn. Since you want to deal with North Ridgeville, I have
    contacted an officer Bauer of the North Ridgeville Police Department (you
    can call him to at 216-327-2191) I have gathered your e-mails and will be
    sending them all via certified mail to him. Would you like the address too?.
    I rightfully respect your decision to get a restraining order against us.
    You seem to think that I have the urge to drive from Washington DC to North
    Ridgeville. The only time that you and I would ever see each other is in
    court. I'll let your lawyers and mine decide what jurisdiction we should
    handle it in.

    I do have one question for you. Why would you contact us claiming that we
    are using your domain name and threaten me. When I respond (nicely and
    tactfully) to you, you just want to issue new threats. I question how much
    you really would like to solve this issue, since you have nothing but little
    rampages to go on. I suggest you either drop this issue, as nobody here is
    not using your domain name (again, type in songwriter4u.com and see where it
    goes), or you prepare yourself to take legal action. If I receive any more
    threats and rantings from you, I will take that as to mean that you are
    prepared to go to court.
    By the way, the link you send me is for African Trademark Law. Last time I
    checked, both you and I are in the United States. I also suggest that you
    research trademark issues a little more carefully instead of quoting things
    from an African Website (did you not even look at the URL). I would also be
    careful of your actions. There are musicians listed on your website that we
    have worked with. Do the musicians you have listed on your site realize what
    you are doing to represent them. So you can sleep a little better tonight, I
    will tell them that we can no longer promote their music. I will not tell
    them why, I will tell them to contact their representative for more
    information.

    Tom Pyles
    TH Media http://www.thmedia.net

  24. #24
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    Tom, have you sent that letter?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>as nobody here is
    not using your domain name<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    A double negative is a positive that could be interpreted as:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We are using your domain name<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    or

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Everyone here is using your domain name<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: WorkerBee ]

  25. #25
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    Yikes....that is what I get for trying to this crap while I'm sick and should be resting....Sheeeeesh

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    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 24th, 2002, 02:35 AM

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