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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Arrow Suggestions to CJ Re: LMI
    I am starting this thread as a consolidated thread of real suggestions to CJ regarding the LMI. All complaints, rants, barbs etc. will be deleted. I want to keep this thread constructive so that CJ can have real publisher feedback/concerns if they'd like it.

    I will start by suggesting that CJ not force this new change upon all new relationships after June 23 but rather roll it out on June 23 and make it optional for publishers to get the JS links or the Legacy links. This way all the kinks can be worked out (which I'm sure there will be) and CJ can decide whether or not to make JS links mandatory in the long run. (aka a beta period)
    Akiva Bergstrom | akiva@affsolutions.com | 718-871-8286

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  2. #2
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    Very simple. I want the option to choose what links I put on my site. I am not loading up my pages with lots of javascript links or putting up any merchants where that is my only choice.

  3. #3
    Internet Cowboy
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    Leave datafeeds alone.
    If it is certain merchants who are wanting more branding and less product promotion, allow those merchants to choose the javascript format, but don't force it on us and the merchants who are fine with things as they are.


  4. #4
    15 years and counting
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    Akiva - I will start by suggesting that CJ not force this new change upon all new relationships after June 23 but rather roll it out on June 23 and make it optional for publishers to get the JS links or the Legacy links.
    I've never seen an update going smooth at CJ. They have no experience with JS links. I second your request to make their JS links optional and to keep the legacy links working as long as their affiliates are using them.
    I'm not going to change my links to please them. If they force me to do it, I'll switch my links to their competition or Indies.
    I don't trust them and I don't need them anymore.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Less a suggestion and more a concern:There are obivously a lot more ad impressions than clicks. If JS links are served from CJ's servers, that would mean that any hiccup or connectivity problem with CJ's servers will affect page displays and/or load times for publishers. Whether it's slow or not loading at all, this can be a potential performance issue with publisher websites for visitors. The click is what matters but heck if the links/banners don't load quickly all the time, affiliates will lose visitors as stats show that content needs to load fairly quickly in order to satisfy vistors in today's broadband world. A slow 302 redirect happens much quicker than a slow loading text link. CJ needs to address this by explaining how they plan on handling all this new serving volume (ie a bolstered up network of servers just for ad-serving which would be seperate from click-forwarding/cookie setting).

  6. #6
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akiva
    Less a suggestion and more a concern:There are obivously a lot more ad impressions than clicks. If JS links are served from CJ's servers, that would mean that any hiccup or connectivity problem with CJ's servers will affect page displays and/or load times for publishers. Whether it's slow or not loading at all, this is a major concern. The click is what matters but heck if the site doesn't load, affiliates will lose visitors if things run slower than usual. A slow 302 redirect happens much quicker than a slow loading text link. CJ needs to address this by explaining how they plan on handling all this new serving volume (ie a bolstered up network of servers just for ad-serving which would be seperate from click-forwarding/cookie setting).
    Agreed 100%. We have a reporting delay just about every month around the time that payments are being processed. With all due respect, if you can't process payments and report sales concurrently without delays, how in the world do you plan on serving millions and millions of links per minute on top of this?


  7. #7
    Newbie TheHoff's Avatar
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    Percentage of users that have Javascript disabled: around 4 to 5%
    Percentage of users that have Norton Internet Security enabled: less than that

    Please remove the "defeating ad blockers" as a reasoning for implementing the LMI. And if I cannot track my own clicks through a link-masking script using datafeeds, my links will be headed elsewhere.

  8. #8
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    And lots of times I have merchants from other networks on the same pages, so it could affect all that too. And options for merchants too. If they want to be a js only merchant, ok that's their decision. But I think most merchants don't and they should have the option of giving their partners the links they want. Not let a 3rd party dictate how business is done between the main parties. So I'll put that as a suggestion. I suggest CJ listen to their customers and not dictate to them and tell them how to run their business.

  9. #9
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Will everyone be pointing their links to the same resources... or will certain partners get faster loads... there should be no difference... a sale is a sale (but is a click and click?). Suggest they assure everyone "feels" the same speed issues equally.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    And lots of times I have merchants from other networks on the same pages, so it could affect all that too. And options for merchants too. If they want to be a js only merchant, ok that's their decision. But I think most merchants don't and they should have the option of giving their partners the links they want. Not let a 3rd party dictate how business is done between the main parties. So I'll put that as a suggestion. I suggest CJ listen to their customers and not dictate to them and tell them how to run their business.
    Good suggestion. Advertisers should have the choice if it truly is for their benefit. I like that.
    Akiva Bergstrom | akiva@affsolutions.com | 718-871-8286

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  11. #11
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    Thumbs down
    (Edited. Voxman, while your input and experience is valued, there was no clear suggestion in your post, therefore I am removing it. Although I agree with what you are saying. - Akiva)

  12. #12
    Full Member TLE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akiva
    There are obivously a lot more ad impressions than clicks. If JS links are served from CJ's servers, that would mean that any hiccup or connectivity problem with CJ's servers will affect page displays and/or load times for publishers.
    That's what I've been thinking about.

    IMHO CJ/VC's DNS is a fragile thing and this will significantly increase the load on these 2 servers. Even if this was an optional issue, the increase in dns requests from the js calls is an externality to all.

    Tuan
    [url="http://www.wholesaler.com"]Wholesaler.com[/url]

  13. #13
    OOOPS just realized was an old POST, LOL GethsemeneRose's Avatar
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    Ok I am only a month into this but I think that Java Links are cool for certain things (sales and short offers) but I like having spider food. I think that the OPTION is what really makes the whole idea of affiliate marketing work. Because a merchant may think he knows what brings people into his store but really the fact that my store features high value xyz content and another store features no content but SEO techniques to drive marketing and a third store is all about email marketing and another person uses coupons the MERCHANT is not about to invest in all of these and also he is not sure if xyz content or yzx is going to work better it is us the publishers who are trying to find a "sweetspot" to bring in traffic that we funnel to the Merchant. The merchant therefore should allow each of us the creativity to use whatever we are best at. JS for those who want it (I love JS for certain content) and HTML for those who want it (I love HTM for other content) I want BOTH and I want it fast so do not add the JS unless you can support it.
    :gnome: [URL]www.gethsemenerose.com[/URL] :gnome: As for me and my SITE we shall serve the LORD!

  14. #14
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voxman
    (Edited. Voxman, while your input and experience is valued, there was no clear suggestion in your post, therefore I am removing it. Although I agree with what you are saying. - Akiva)
    Sorry, I thought this was also about letting CJ get some feedback from top affiliates.

    Basically my suggestion is this. Let the HTML links that established publishers are using keep working and don't try to force everyone to use JS links that would compromise the customer experience on our sites... otherwise prepare for a mass exodus.

    Regarding what you deleted... can I at least post the URL of my full comment regarding this issue?

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=73770

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador netnow22's Avatar
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    I kind of like the idea, (considering my platform and site already supports javascripts link)

    Problems:
    Updated offers, no more updating expired coupons. However i hope the merchants realize when they update, lets say a "10% off roses" coupon they need to replace the coupons with a similiar offer. For an example if they update the coupon to say" 10% off floor mats" that would suck because we affiliates would have to manually change the coupon to correct category. and to make things worse with dynamic linking we will never know when they update a coupon.

    ANother problem would be:
    If when i loggon to cj.com and the merchant has 3 coupons and lets say a merchant 3 months later adds more coupons in additional to others, we affiliates will never know they have added a coupon.


    The main problem i see is the affiliate managers HAVE to organize thier dynamic linking and keep them consistant across the board.

  16. #16
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    My suggestions:

    1) Make JavaScript links optional. There are situations where they could be useful.

    2) Keep "legacy" links as the default. The situations where JavaScript links are useful are relatively limited.

    3) If you're implementing JavaScript links to address specific problems or requests, give us a list of those specific programs or requests. I can guarantee that there's a better, less problematic solution than JavaScript. If you can't figure it out, give us a chance to.

    4) Create an Affiliate Advisory Board. Run these types of ideas by the Affiliate Advisory Board while they're still in the idea stage. Include the AAB in the planning stage. Include the AAB in the beta test stage. Consult with the AAB in the documentation, training, and implementation stages.
    Michael Coley
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  17. #17
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    My suggestions:

    1) Make JavaScript links optional. There are situations where they could be useful.

    2) Keep "legacy" links as the default. The situations where JavaScript links are useful are relatively limited.

    3) If you're implementing JavaScript links to address specific problems or requests, give us a list of those specific programs or requests. I can guarantee that there's a better, less problematic solution than JavaScript. If you can't figure it out, give us a chance to.

    4) Create an Affiliate Advisory Board. Run these types of ideas by the Affiliate Advisory Board while they're still in the idea stage. Include the AAB in the planning stage. Include the AAB in the beta test stage. Consult with the AAB in the documentation, training, and implementation stages.
    Good Post MichaelColey!!

    Excellent suggestions and well said.

  18. #18
    Newby Apologist
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    It's already been sugegsted a couple times, but bears repeating: allow merchants to choose whether or not to offer JavaScript, "legacy," or both types of links. Ideally this could be overridden my the merchant on a per-affiliate basis. So a merchant could have JavaScript links available by default, but choose to let trusted affiliate partners use "legacy" links. This would address a lot of concerns on both the merchant and affiliate sides of the fence (though maybe not the network side).

  19. #19
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    Keep us informed of any problems while you do the upgrade. Growing pains are expected. It's the silence and wondering if you are alone with your problem that is maddening.
    Thanks

  20. #20
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    Most database driven websites use a primary url for linking each merchant. My suggestion on behalf of such sites ( mine included) is to allow the default link to each merchant to be a legacy link. It is just not a matter of adding links for many of us, it is having our entire sites reprogrammed.

  21. #21
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne
    Most database driven websites use a primary url for linking each merchant. My suggestion on behalf of such sites ( mine included) is to allow the default link to each merchant to be a legacy link. It is just not a matter of adding links for many of us, it is having our entire sites reprogrammed.
    Amen

  22. #22
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I think a large part of it comes from the "advertising" mindset at CJ. It's always been there. It became pretty obvious to me when they changed "merchants" to "advertisers" and "affiliates" to "publishers". I'm not a publisher. I'm not into advertising. I'm an affiliate, and proud of it.

    With an advertising mindset, publishers provide a space and the advertiser has near total control over the space to meet their objectives. Advertisers pay as little as possible. With an affiliate mindset, the merchants give the affiliates near total control so that the onus is on them to generate the best results possible. Affiliates are compensated based on sales results. With affiliate programs, merchants can pay more and get better results. The two mindsets are diametrically opposed to one another and do not mix.

    So, my next suggestion to CJ is that they lose the advertising mindset. Never, never, never forget that you're an affiliate network. Your parent company has other companies that are advertising companies. Keep the advertising mindset there.
    Michael Coley
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  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Posts that were not suggestions have been split into a new thread here: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=73870

    Please keep this thread as constructive as possible. Thank you.
    Last edited by Akiva; May 26th, 2006 at 12:39 PM.
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  24. #24
    Outsourced Program Manager Jorge - SHOPiMAR's Avatar
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    It should remain as an option to use legacy links, product feeds and keywords as they are for at least the next 12 months, June of 2007 and not just phased by default so soon.

    Perhaps making them the default after June 2007 will make cj look good now and in the end, as no major tracking issues and disruptions and will help everyone plan ahead properly.

  25. #25
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    Maybe they can use this as an opportunity to bring the cookies in line with what is acceptable, without creating the Norts road block and such. If affiliates have a cookie duration of 120 days max, why should the cookie expire in 2011 (will the hard drive even last that long...reality check)?

    Java or not, if a cookie is delivered and the domain is known it's going to get blocked sooner or later, unless the use of cookies is considered acceptable.

    With acts like H.R. 29: Securely Protect Yourself Against Cyber Trespass Act
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...y&bill=h109-29
    the use of the information gathered by these cookies long after they are expired for their original function is just fodder for the fire. If I'm correct about 6 mos from now the FTC will look into the use of computer tracking cookies in the delivery or display of advertising to computer owners and users.

    If embedding a script in our pages is some way to say that the networks have some ownership of the page and as such rights to information gathered, I hope the networks will rethink this and find a way to make standard cookie use more palatable for everyone.

    question: isn't it the goal of the javascript to set a cookie, just as it is for current links? what is all the fuss about?

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