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  1. #1
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    As if Networks with a Blind Eye Towards Parasites wasn't Bad Enough...
    It started with this thread.. A Clickbooth affiliate who was popping their aff URL for Clickbooth on ABW. And then it comes out the same aff was trademark bidding via AdWords on many other Networks and Aff Marketing sites (I found 19 such incidents).

    John Limp came and gave the Clickbooth spin. Many questions were asked....many questions were not answered. The targeting of ABW through 180Solutions by the ClickBooth affiliate did stop. And the Google Ad against AvantLink was removed per Gary's request. But the Clickbooth aff account remained active and other Google ads continued.

    In my first post I said:

    Granted it's an aff ID, but how do we know who that ID really belongs to?
    When an aff puts their aff link as the ad URL in adware like 180Solutions, knowing who the person is can be difficult to know (unless you have access to that affs account). It can take a bit of digging to find out.

    Well I now know who that affiliate id belongs to. Can you guess??? Exactly who I suspected at the time it belonged to........

    Why it belongs to Clickbooth themselves. Yes, it belong to Clickbooth. John didn't have to go very far at all to get the ABW pop turned off. Nor remove just the trademark bidding on Google for Gary. Just looked in the mirror.

    So what we have here is a Network who is also an affiliate themselves. They are an affiliate for not only the merchants on Clickbooth but for the affiliate program for Clickbooth. And well John Limp, who has a forum here, targeted ABW to pop up a Clickbooth ad on. Under the guise of 'one of their affiliates'. Then he came here giving a bunch of spin about how they don't allow trademark targeting. And the affiliate's link was deactivated. And that Network Quality would be monitoring. And all the while he is making it sound like CB doesn't allow this type of thing and is taking action.

    But the reality is...it was them and not an affiliate all along.

    See I was tooling around John's network of web sites. Those would be the network of netstupidity sites. And these sites have Clickbooth links on them. Now if you mouse over those links, you don't get an aff id. But if you click on them with a sniffer going...then you do. And while for most those ads all are for CD1 (expected), seems they forgot about an ad in their rotation.

    When I clicked through that ad....low and behold what aff ID did I get (on more than one netstupidity site)....CD3286. Take a look at screenshot from the thread linked to. Same ID.

    And it would take some serious evidence to convince me that they are running someone else's aff ID on those sites besides their own. So I hope we don't get our intelligence insulted by that road being traveled down.

    This isn't a Network turning a blind eye to parasitic activity within their Network (ok..well it actuall IS). Or a Network running offers that spread adware. Or Network allowing 180Solutions into their Network as an affiliate.

    This is a Network working as an affiliate forcing clicks through 180Solutions. Again because it bears repeating...this is a Network working as an affiliate forcing clicks through 180Solutions.

    And the links were not a layering of CPA Networks where these guys are all affs of each others and it's a nightmare to follow the clickstream trail. Only CB invovled here no subaccount in use.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of Affiliate Marketing courtsey of some CPA Networks.

    I really hope that both affs and merchants really think about the implications here, because these type of thing is becoming a growing trend and seems to be looked upon as 'normal business.'

    See screenshot of click through from one of the ads where the CB ID is seen.

    PS: Nice to have casino links up on a site that probably draws under 21 years old traffic. A CPC link at that. Now there's some targeted CPC traffic by the Network.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    Pathetic, is John Limp the real name?

  3. #3
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Yes it is.

    But netstupidity for that network of sites is seeming pretty ironic to me right now.

  4. #4
    Internet Cowboy
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    I think with some more digging you will find out a LOT more about Mr. Limp. I am amazed that Haiko keeps their forum active. The only action their forum gets is spammers spamming their ebooks. ClickBooth has been a haven for spammers and criminals since day 1 and will remain that way until the feds catch up with them, which can't be that far away.


  5. #5
    Influencer Marketing GravityFed's Avatar
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    Kellie, Thanks for the update. Maybe Haiko will remove their ABW category...

  6. #6
    15 years and counting
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    From the same thread: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=71666
    John Limp - We would not put our companies reputation in jeapordy by saying something that was not entirely true.
    Their reputation is number one.

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    That's it.

    Thank you Kellie.

    ----
    PS it's Lemp not Limp.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  8. #8
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    But if Haiko kicks them, the number one most trusted source in honest top 3 affiliate networks in the world that leads the way in integrity in this industry won't ever answer my question!

    I am sure he just about to, any day now...

    This all just makes this post even funnier, note the careful wording...
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=21

    Chet

  9. #9
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Right on, Chet... That post is a tip toer now that we see it in light of Kellie's hard work (with a little help from Donuts I'm willing to bet)...
    Kevin Webster
    twitter: levelanalytics

    Kayak Fishing
    Web Analytics and Affiliate Marketing

  10. #10
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    John Lemp tells a good story to merchants. He has some slick looking sites and exhibits at conferences and much more. But John Lemp and his brother David are known mega spammers and their "CPA Network" is just a front for adware, parasiteware and spyware operations that they conduct for themselves.

    Joining their network as an affiliate allows their cover story to be more convincing. They love mixing in a little real traffic among their own trickery because it makes the "rogue affiliate" story more believable.

    Kellie just showed this very point.

    If you're a merchant, these guys will eventually get you in CAN-SPAM trouble, spyware trouble or by siphoning off parasitic sales, they'll make your affiliates bringing real traffic conclude your program doesn't convert.

    They can post some great numbers via special tricks, but if you're smart and look at their traffic headers and sources, you'll see it's all a lie. In my experience, thugs like these guys do way more damage to programs than bringing in ebates and the like.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Did I help Kellie? Thankfully, for all of us, she's got it all going on and needs nobody's help. If I could help her, I'd gladly do it. Over the past few years, she's done personal favors for me that have saved me thousands of dollars by exposing bad actors. She is an angel sent down to protect affiliates.

  11. #11
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=71344
    When I asked John here to provide background of the owner of one of hisnew ClickBooth programs (FreescholarshipFinder), he declined to comment.

    The owner is Justin Champion, a friend of John Lemp's, and a major league spammer. Ben did a write up on one of Justin's companies:
    http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/whenu-spam/seo.html

    freescholarshipfinder.com/terms.htm is owned by EyeServe...
    Their address is an apartment in Miami's South Beach...
    1504 Bay Road, Suite 3112 Miami Beach, FL 33139...

    +EyeServe is part of iServeNetwork.com...
    EyeServe biz license in Florida says...
    EYESERVE INC.
    PRINCIPAL ADDRESS 1504 BAY ROAD, #3112 MIAMI FL 33139
    MAILING ADDRESS 636 BROADWAY, 3RD FLOOR NEW YORK NY 10012
    Registered Agent: CHAMPION, JUSTIN 361 COLLINS SUITE 11 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139
    Officer/Director Detail Name & Address Title CHAMPION, JUSTIN (CEO)
    1504 BAY ROAD, #3112 (note, same address as FREESCHOLARSHIPFINDER.COM (and others))
    MIAMI FL 33139

    So who is this eyeserve / iserve that Justin is a part of?

    Same group of people run... iserve , iservecoreg,
    http://www.iservecoreg.com/aboutus.html
    says headquartered in New York...
    Search NY state records and you get...
    Selected Entity Name: EYESERVE INC.
    Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: EYESERVE INC.
    Initial DOS Filing Date: OCTOBER 03, 2005
    County: NEW YORK
    Jurisdiction: DELAWARE
    Entity Type: FOREIGN BUSINESS CORPORATION

    So here they are again, firing things up... iservecoreg.com says...
    http://www.iservecoreg.com/aboutus.html
    "Our team builds next generation ad serving solutions and drives leads for its advertising clients through our co registration network that reaches over 500,000 registrations per day and growing !"

    500,000 registrations per day...

    Anyone want to guess how they do that???
    they say "proprietary lead generation technology"...
    Anyone think for a second that honest marketing efforts can sign up 500,000 people per day without iServe being a household name or one we affiliates have heard of?
    from an apartment in South Beach?
    for a foreign registered company?

    Can you imagine how much information they will acquire from people applying for scholarships???

    How long until they're on this list?
    FTC scholarship scams:
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcam...ship/cases.htm

    As you go track down John Lemp, his friends like Justin Champion, the roads - they are long and twisted - usually lead to foreign companies registered in Delaware. Delware's laws allow spammers to hide. If the FTC is to make meaningful progress in it's war against cheating scum like John, all they need to do is issue federal subpoenas to get the Delaware corporate information they need to expose them all.

  12. #12
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Sorry about the typo on his name....must have been a freudian typo?? I didn't even catch it in Trust's post.

    Anyway, yes it is just the tip when it comes to CB and associations. And again I just kind of stumbled across the ID and it rang a bell with me.

    It was the fact of the blatent misleading posts here the really got me and I decided to post just on that issue right away.

    It is a very tangled web indeed when it comes to some CPA Networks. And they can lead to some not so good places.

    To those affiliates and merchants who may just be taking a glancing look but are thinking that because they don't really deal with lead programs, cog-reg, etc this doesn't impact on them, you need to think again.

    Clickbooth (along with numerous other CPA Networks) are affiliates themselves and I've seen the trail end at the doorstep of the major Networks.

    I showed an example of this convoluted trail down in Miami at Andy's thing that involved an affiliate link overwrite on a click from Michael Coley's site. CB (along with a couple of other CPA Networks) were involved and it ultimately ended at a major network. Heck CJ themselves just talked about it. Although CJ called them super affiliates and sub affiliate networks, they were talking about many CPA Networks. They go as far as to say "The catch is these same opportunities will test legal and brand considerations to the limit. " A lot of spin in the article, but it's definitely worth taking a very close read. Because CJ is basically saying it's being left up to the merchant to decide and monitor these types of affiliates.

    More and more every day, both Merchants and affiliates need to really know and understand the business models/practices of who they are partnering with.

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I Salute You Ms. B on your honest appraisals of what makes the Adwhores orgasim. I imagine behind the scenes you unravel the money trails leading back to those turning a blind eye to those hiring commission thieves. I also find Donuts consistantly/accurately OUTING the parties involved in the actual theftware practices. There are no ethical CPA networks... period! They are all run as covers for devious Super Affiliates and network insiders seeking to get a cut off the perloined, shared or sold clickstream data. No one is policing them and rogue blackhat affiliates flock to them in droves after being booted from regular network programs.

    Take the history here of Overstock. When they were a pathetic designed, non-converting loser at Befree, they agreed to hang out their dirty linen here and listen to ABW recommendations on how to save their butts from ecommerce extinction. Pre-IPO we helped their newbee AM Shawn transistion from BF to Linkshare and concentrate 100% on site redesign, sales reporting and landing pages. Success once they pulled the plug on BF links killing cross-network reporting of sales. Then success made them experiment with every Adwhore tricks for clicks playa and BHO to come down the Pike.

    They claim now to be Parasite free after years of involvement. Blow away this smoke screen as they continue to work with a NETorious LS banned Theftware operation... WhenU/ShopNow. Take a look at the cookie stuffing links and their involvement with www.pricebandit.com that completely is counter to their Big-O in-house loyality program.

    Other scumbag cookie stuffing exploits uses By This WhenU Group so necessary for the Overstock Brand association....
    KidWatcher 6· SpediaBar· ClearSearch· Blast· Trojan.PSW.Keyman· PassThisOn· WhenU.Shop· Livestat.com· Logger Buddy· Trojan.PSW.INet20.b· SpediaBar 2.12· Free Ice Remote Spy· Home Key Logger· Serv-U Web Administrator Professional 1.0· Serv-U FTP Server 2.5a· SpyAnytime PC Spy· All-In-One Telcom· WhenU.Save· WinShadow· XPCSpy Pro 1.26· WinGuardian 3· Web Position· Infected· Engage.com· WinGuardian· ProfitZone· Darkray.1525· Vbasic.5120.C· Vbasic.5120.B· Dogpile· Is My Mate Cheating Online 6· Serv-U FTP Server· XferPro32· Vbasic.5120· AutoStartup· Backdoor.Jerwin· Ezula· Dccnewk· ClearStream Accelerator· Visual Element· BearShare· Virtual Bouncer· BonziBuddy· SubSeven.backdoor.v213· Hamnewk· Key Spy Software 4· FreeXXPlace· Port mapper v1.40b· Silencer· NTO Scanner v1.26· WhenU.Search· Target Saver· Xrenoder· XPCSpy 2.20· Ezula TopText· PeopleOnPage.Apropos· Lycos Sidesearch· SexDialer· Sentinel.5402· Serv-U FTP Server 3.0· ClearSearch.csie· PrizeSurfer· CoolSavings· Remote Task Manager· Timesink· FastTracker· Winlog· PeopleOnPage.AproposMedia· Conducent TimeSink· LowerMyBills.com· Advanced TCP Logger 3.90b· ClipGenie· Zipclix· PeopleOnPage.Smamate· W32/Lorez.1766.A· Home Key Logger 1.70· CrazyIcons Prank· BoxTone 1.00 b· DThoughts.6144· WhenU.SaveNow· Radlight 3 PRO· Lanbyte 0.01· WhenU.WeatherCast· Axent Raptor 6.0 IP Options DOS· Backdoor.BO.BeeOne.14· SMAC· Active Key Logger· Funny Pictures Bot· RedButton 1.0· W32/Hybris.worm.B· Active Key Logger 1.9· Active Key Logger 1.8· WhenU.Desktop Toolbar· Trojan.WinHDBreaker· Backdoor.BO.BeeOne· HitBox.com· Cool Remote Control 1.2· TargetSoft.winhost32· SaveNow/Download· TopMoxie· Port mapper 1.40b· Home Key Logger 1.01· ZillaBar· IB TopicBrowser Hijack· Home Key Logger 1.60· XPCSpy· Riviera Gold Casino· PeopleOnPage· Evulz.785.A· CoolSavings.com· Frodo.4096.A· W32/Hybris.worm· WhenU.UControl· WhenU.SaveNow· WhenU.Sidefinder· WhenU.WeatherCast· WhenU.Save· WhenU.Search· WhenU.Desktop Toolbar· WhenU.Shop·

    I can see programs run by the network and 3rd party sleazy AM firms falling for this crap, but Overstock AM's are employees. Therefore any FTC or AG actions will fall directly in their laps for hidden participation and monitizing the criminal underbelly of the affiliate industry. Maybe now the Enron PERPs, supposedly shielded by their Ivory towers and million $$$ bank accounts, shuffle off to spend the rest of their greed driven lives as Bubba's prison bunk mates, the realities of partnering decisions will set in. How many ABW posting merchants would care to vouch in a court of law for the legitimacy of their top 100 affiliate earners?
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  14. #14
    Internet Cowboy
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  15. #15
    Member begabloomers's Avatar
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    Scared witless
    Interesting thread, how does a merchant make sure that they can vouch for the integrity of their affiliates?

    As a soon to be online merchant this is a very serious matter. I know this question may seem naive but it is better to look stupid now than regret not asking later. If I partner with a reputable manager and system such as ( I am led to believe) ShareaSale can I be confident that ShareaSale will be able to screen and manage affiliate activity and practices?

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    SAS dosn't allow blackhat affiliates or phoney front merchant posers into their system. If outed ...they're gone. SAS is a real network. CPA networks are just Super Affiliates, or wannabees, pooling any type of traffic without regard to how it is generated. They employ a "Don't Ask ...Don't Tell" policy so their merchants take on the risk of filtering a lot of bogus leads and affiliate traffic trickery.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  17. #17
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    SAS dosn't allow blackhat affiliates or phoney front merchant posers into their system.
    What is a "blackhat affiliate"?
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
    Twitter me

  18. #18
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    Last edited by Trust; June 10th, 2006 at 11:44 PM.

  19. #19
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    John Lemp and brother David Lemp... ClickBooth, IntegraClick, WebCannon and a 100 other domians they hide behind...

    Kellie reported on their shady stuff in this thread. Love her! She's an angel sent to protect us.

    I also posted how CDT.org recently showed John Lemp's organization is one of the largest users of adware to target merchants:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...36&postcount=6

    He's getting busted by quite a few people these days. Here's yet another - ROKSO (spam):
    http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/eviden...kso_id=ROK6506
    http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/eviden...kso_id=ROK6507
    http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/eviden...kso_id=ROK6508

    If you're a merchant and John Lemp or brother David Lemp is in your program, he's using adware to steal commissions and sending spam galore. Keep doing business with him and he might get your merchant site blacklisted for spam. Then, you're really screwed! Your legit mailing efforts - tanked. Apps like Norton, will begin blocking links to your site. You'll be lumped in, or Lemp'ed in, with the crappy players everywhere and your business will suffer a lot of pain.

    Merchants beware!

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador
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    But.. but.. donuts that is unpossible...
    Quote Originally Posted by Integra scumbag
    Fact is though we do and we are one of the few companies in this industry that continues to lead the way on integrity
    THEY ARE LEADING THE WAY TO INTEGRITY!!!! They even have integrity as part of their name!!

    this thread with john posting is almost not funny and just sad when you know the truth behind the man and the company.

    Chet

  21. #21
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Yep, very sad for us all. He is making TONS of commissions using adware and parasiteware to steal from other affiliates and from the merchants he works with.

    There are many merchants that will read this and already know about the large checks they're sending him for nothing.
    Last edited by MichaelColey; August 14th, 2006 at 09:35 AM.

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