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  1. #1
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    Any PPC'ers out there??
    Hey hey!

    I am very concerned about this new changes and how it will affect us PPC'ers.. Thing is, are we REQUIRED to enter EACH AND EVERY KEYWORD AND/OR PHRASES that we will ever use into the keyword list in the CJ.com interface???

    That would mean the end.. Because as I see it, it just isn't possible to do so while trying out new keyword etcetera..

    Any ideas about this??

    Thanks!

    Bob

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornerbob
    Hey hey!

    I am very concerned about this new changes and how it will affect us PPC'ers.. Thing is, are we REQUIRED to enter EACH AND EVERY KEYWORD AND/OR PHRASES that we will ever use into the keyword list in the CJ.com interface???

    That would mean the end.. Because as I see it, it just isn't possible to do so while trying out new keyword etcetera..

    Any ideas about this??

    Thanks!

    Bob

    Yes, that's pretty much what CJ wants its merchants to do; write out keywords, and the related links for the affiliates to use. According to CJ, the are: "embarking on a campaign to make sure advertisers are up to date on their search and keyword preferences"

    In other words, don't expect anything good to come out of it. If I were you, I'd plan on doing what I can with your current CJ merchants now, until the actual change is in place. Once it is, you can test out the new system to see if it'll work for you.

    In the meantime, I'd focus the share of attention from CJ to another network. Don't get caught with your pants donw.
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  3. #3
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    I dont think that is what it means. In the keyword link menu there is actually a link at the bottom that you can use for your PPC. The link looks the same as any other link currently used by CJ. Weither or not they are making us use just one link instead of giving us multiple links for ppc is the real question.

  4. #4
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    Yes well that's what I'm wondering.. If the idea is that we are supposed to login to CJ and submit keywords every we make an PPC update, it totally unrealistic!

    Does anyone have a clue?

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    2. If you are doing search marketing, you will now only be able to get links for use in search marketing from the Keyword Link area in the CJ Account Managerô
    ...
    "If you have been creating your own keyword links from other links, you will no longer be able to. "

    Sounds to me like you'll only be able to use the keyword links that merchants provide. In other words, if a merchant only provides you with a single link that has the keyword "buy books", then that's all you'll be allowed to use in the PPC engines. No more picking the keywords yourself. It's all reliant on what the merchant will provide you.

    edit: of course, you could look at it such that the merchant provides every conceivable list of keyword links available, in which everything will work out fine. However, I have sneaking suspicion that it won't turn out that way.
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  6. #6
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    If I were into PPC there's no way in the world I'd divulge my keyword list, not any more than I'd give them my keywords from server stats for organic SEO. Keyword research is hard and tedious work that takes a long time, sometimes even over the years seasonally. If they want keyword research let them pay an SEO to do it for them.

    From a merchants special conditions - a lot have it or something similar, it looks like a boiler plate to me:


    1. You may NOT use the name product names, logos, trademarks, service marks, trade dress, copyrights and proprietary technology, including without limitation, those names, logos, service marks, trade dress, copyrights, and proprietary technology currently used or which may be developed and/or used by it in the future except as expressly authorized by this Agreement (collectively, "merchant's property").
    That's OK, they have to protect their trademark.

    2. In particular, you may NOT use the or any variation thereof, in metatags; you may NOT use the or any variation thereof, in hidden text or source code.
    The trademark protection is OK, and meta tags are worthless anyway for the most part (with a few minor exceptions), but in the source code? Alt text for an image or a banner is in source code. What would they have us say, alt="widgets from over there in some unidentified store that will surprise you when you get there - and take our word for it, you will love them!"?

    This is what it's all about, IMHO:

    5. You may NOT engineer your site in such a manner that pulls Internet traffic away from < this company>.
    It's my personal belief that a big percentage of the motivation for this, including that whole Javascript nonsense is wanting to squash SEO efforts that compete with merchants. And IMHO anything beyond the merchant protecting their trademark, which they can and should do, is coming pretty darn close to restraint of trade.
    Last edited by webworker; May 27th, 2006 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #7
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    exactly what I was thinking!!

    I'm not that big into PPC, but there's people making $XXX.XXX every month on eBay PPC, and the only thing they have is the keywords.

    No way those people will upload the complete keyword list to cj.com!

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webworker
    If I were into PPC there's no way in the world I'd divulge my keyword list, not any more than I'd give them my keywords from server stats for organic SEO.
    With the new system, you are doing just that! By putting the JavaScript code on your page, you are giving CJ complete access to information about what organic and PPC search results are sending visitors to your site.

    This update is not about helping the publisher. It's about micromanaging to the extreme. It's about CJ knowing even more information about your traffic than you do, and showing your visitors exactly what CJ wants them to see - whether you like it or not.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey
    With the new system, you are doing just that! By putting the JavaScript code on your page, you are giving CJ complete access to information about what organic and PPC search results are sending visitors to your site.

    This update is not about helping the publisher. It's about micromanaging to the extreme. It's about CJ knowing even more information about your traffic than you do, and showing your visitors exactly what CJ wants them to see - whether you like it or not.
    As with what others have said lately, it is definitely starting to sound like CJ is wanting to weed people out of their program. Some kind of master plan going into effect.
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  10. #10
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    Having to use only javascript links is a bad move in itself. And then you throw this on top of it. There are some major PPCers out there that will just take their keyword lists elsewhere. And some merchants biggest affiliates are PPCers, so they might tell them to open up elsewhere. These moves can only make CJ and CJ merhchants less money. Can't see how it will make them more. There's also instances where I do PPC to a page with more than a few merchants, some from other networks. Now how's that work? If i get sales to CJ merchants but don't submit the keywords to CJ, I don't get paid? How can they tell if the traffic is coming from natural free traffic or PPC?

    natural - page x - click
    ppc - page x - click

  11. #11
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    Sounds like cj and choice merchants want to scoop up any good keywords you think up that they may have missed.

    Glad I don't do much with CJ.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    Few or none of the indies I work with are this restrictive.
    yep, it sounds like CJs behind the master plan..

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador ticketguyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    2. If you are doing search marketing, you will now only be able to get links for use in search marketing from the Keyword Link area in the CJ Account Managerô
    ...
    "If you have been creating your own keyword links from other links, you will no longer be able to. "

    Sounds to me like you'll only be able to use the keyword links that merchants provide. In other words, if a merchant only provides you with a single link that has the keyword "buy books", then that's all you'll be allowed to use in the PPC engines. No more picking the keywords yourself. It's all reliant on what the merchant will provide you.

    edit: of course, you could look at it such that the merchant provides every conceivable list of keyword links available, in which everything will work out fine. However, I have sneaking suspicion that it won't turn out that way.
    I disagree with your reasoning. I believe it's very straightforward, and this won't have a negative effect on any PPCers unless they are using words that merchants later deem non-compete keywords. The only thing the new policy is saying is that PPC links will be generated from one specific link for each merchant. Keep in mind that a "keyword" link isn't associated one-to-one with particular keywords, so your idea that the merchant will have dozens or hundreds of links for every possible keyword isn't even plausible. There will be one link in the "legacy" format that can be used in PPC direct-to-merchant campaigns. This isn't to micromanage the PPC process or the keywords being used, but rather to give merchants a true reflection of what percentage of business is being driven directly from search or through publisher's own pages. Again, this new rule applies only to those direct-linking to the merchant's page. They are not requiring publisher's to submit keyword lists or anything of that sort. They just want to help give the merchant a more true reflection of the source of the sales being driven through CJ. That is one thing I am certain merchants have been asking for, and one change that I don't believe should be threatening to anyone.

    edit to say... this is all just "my 2 cents", so I could be proven wrong once everything is rolled out.

  14. #14
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    So from that one link, how would someone generate say 1,000 10,000, 100,000+ links to tens of thousands of different pages each targeting different keywords on merchant sites? It'll be amazing if they come up with some way to do that within this new setup. Serious affiliate PPC isn't just picking a few keywords and sending the traffic to a handful of landing pages.

    If you're a big PPC player, sounds like you better get loaded up with links and campaigns now, assuming the legacy links will work for a while

  15. #15
    Full Member kea12345678's Avatar
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    If you're a big PPC player, sounds like you better get loaded up with links and campaigns now, assuming the legacy links will work for a while
    The Javascript scheme won't work, people are just going to click on "Get Email HTML Link". I think we are worrying about nothing.

  16. #16
    Newbie TheHoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kea12345678
    The Javascript scheme won't work, people are just going to click on "Get Email HTML Link". I think we are worrying about nothing.
    That won't last long once network quality notices. It is very easy to log any click that comes in from an "Email Link" that has an HTTP referer (meaning it was clicked on a web page and not an email).

  17. #17
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Question
    Quote Originally Posted by Joey
    With the new system, you are doing just that! By putting the JavaScript code on your page, you are giving CJ complete access to information about what organic and PPC search results are sending visitors to your site.
    Let's think about a basic situation that could apply to any affiliate:

    Will CJ be able to become a "virtual tracker" when its javascript code is in place?

    What if I create a static html page (i.e. the page is not a blog page, the page is not using datafeed nor is the page using Golden Can to display products) and feature sandals on the page?

    What if I feature pictures of sandals from different shoe merchants: one from a CJ shoe merchant, two from a LS shoe merchant, and one from SAS plus I write an ad copy saying how great it would be to wear sandals (similar to the ones shown) on a vacation to SanFrancisco (where I include airfare links, hotel links, travel apparel links, and car rental links all from advertisers of different networks) -- will CJ have complete access to the organic information that is enticing visitors to my site? Will CJ be able to figure out which pair of sandals trump the others? Or would CJ be able to figure out that my knowledge of SanFrancisco was so spectacular that I could attract visitors around the world to my page of beautiful sandals?

    Okay, say I decide to be even more daring -- say I decide to include Google's Adsense in the mix: will CJ be able to figure out everything?

    or

    What if I am feeling lucky during the summer and I decide that paying for a little extra traffic would be worth my while so I venture into Adwords territory (all in compliance with the merchants' trademark/name/TOS protections) -- would CJ's insertion of its javascript code blow my deal?
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  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    speculating

    maybe they want to do their own 'contextual advertising' thing like adsense, ypn, chitika.

    This change is just to get the platform ready for that?

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    What if I am feeling lucky during the summer and I decide that paying for a little extra traffic would be worth my while so I venture into Adwords territory (all in compliance with the merchants' trademark/name/TOS protections) -- would CJ's insertion of its javascript code blow my deal?
    It shouldn't.

    the way I understand it...

    If you're going to link direct to the merchant from the ads, they've stated that there will be PPC-only links that aren't javascript. The advertiser must have enabled this sort of link. And you as the publisher must have designated yourself as one who does PPC in your profile.

    Or if you're going to drive traffic to your own sites, then of course it's no issue at all as those wouldn't be CJ links.

  20. #20
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjangro
    If you're going to link direct to the merchant from the ads, they've stated that there will be PPC-only links that aren't javascript. The advertiser must have enabled this sort of link. And you as the publisher must have designated yourself as one who does PPC in your profile.
    To date I have not designated myself as such, but what if I change my mind and go for it? What if I change my profile and I place their PPC links on my site, does CJ have complete access to information about organic and PPC search results?
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    if you're using javascript, you can gather just about any referral information you want (i.e., what search engine, what keyword, etc).
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  22. #22
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    if you're using javascript, you can gather just about any referral information you want (i.e., what search engine, what keyword, etc).
    Is that an answer to CJ could become a "virtual tracker" when its javascript code is in place?
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  23. #23
    Newbie TheHoff's Avatar
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    If there are CJ links on all of your pages, everything that you get in Google Analytics or StatCounter would be available to CJ, for free. Remember that incident where a CJ employee was taking keywords and running his own PPC campaigns?

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    To date I have not designated myself as such, but what if I change my mind and go for it? What if I change my profile and I place their PPC links on my site, does CJ have complete access to information about organic and PPC search results?
    You wouldn't put keyword (PPC) links on your site, you'd put them in the ad as the click URL. When you designate yourself as a search affiilate, that's what you say that you're doing as at least one method. Any affiliate who sends traffic directly through CJ on PPC advertising is giving CJ the referer information, which may include what keywords the end user searched on. That's always been the case.

    Is that an answer to CJ could become a "virtual tracker" when its javascript code is in place?
    Yes and if you've ever put Adsense ads on a site, you've given the same to Google.

    It's good to know what information is available to service providers, but is this a concern? Why do some of you work with a company you distrust so much?

    Did you ever consider that Google employees are allowed to do affiliate marketing and what information is available to them? CJ employess are no longer allowed to.

  25. #25
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    "CJ employess are no longer allowed to."

    The boss doesn't like the employees to compete with them. CJ's employees can't do affiliate marketing but they can with their own shopping site.

    http://www.pricerunner.com

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