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  1. #1
    Member bobmutch's Avatar
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    Jeff Molander's CJ link change article?
    I am new to affilates. Can some one give me the just of the 2 sides to this articles in newbie language.

    http://www.thoughtshapers.com/index....morning-after/

  2. #2
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    I think they should first try to figure out how to track and report sales before they start messing around with different kinds of linking schemes.

  3. #3
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    If you read this thread you will be getting the jest of it.


  4. #4
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    "So far affiliates are doing exactly what they should be doing. Nothing if they’re valued partners to retailers; leaving in droves if they’re armatures."

    One of CJ's clients may soon lose this "armature" who has generated millions of dollars in sales for them. "Valued Partner" my ass.

  5. #5
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobmutch
    I am new to affilates. Can some one give me the just of the 2 sides to this articles in newbie language.

    http://www.thoughtshapers.com/index....morning-after/
    It's the issue of CJ converting their html links into javascript (which would give advertisers more control ...supposedly).

    The CJ network/Advertisers want control and this change is seen as one that might bump off the "lesser affiliates."

    ABW has many threads about this debate in the Commission Junction sub-forum.

    The problems affiliates see with the javascript links are:
    1) Javascript tends to slow down the loading of a web page.
    2) The Advertiser/Network could determine what the links displays (which might not be in sync with the rest of the web page).
    3) Some web surfers turn off their javascript while surfing.


    PS: Some may view this transition in panic. The fact is CJ has many top money making advertisers so instead of abandoning ship I decided to apply to even more advertisers as there may be a grace period. So (as I see it) the more advertisers I join now the more I'll have to work with during a "grace/transition" period. I may not like the final outcome of this CJ link change, but at least I want to follow through to see what the outcome will be (every affiliate is hoping CJ will decide to make the javascript links optional).
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  6. #6
    Member bobmutch's Avatar
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    Molander is a pretty good writter. He penned up this article also.

    http://www.thoughtshapers.com/index....rs-shift-risk/

    Seems like the issues are as follows.

    1. The search engines don't want all the index pollution from affilate spam.
    2. The merchants are not overly impressed with the way their products are affiliated on cheesy sites.
    3. As affilates won't use the nofollow tag in their links CJ is decided to use JavaScript links that the search engine spiders won't follow.

    Now for some reason the affiliates didn't like this.

    Er, am I getting it?

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    He's more off than on.

  8. #8
    Member bobmutch's Avatar
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    bumpaw:

    >>>If you read this thread you will be getting the jest of it.

    Reading it now. Its a long one : )

  9. #9
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I usually have a lot of respect for Jeff, but he's totally missing the issues here.
    Michael Coley
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobmutch
    Molander is a pretty good writter. He penned up this article also.

    http://www.thoughtshapers.com/index....rs-shift-risk/

    Seems like the issues are as follows.

    1. The search engines don't want all the index pollution from affilate spam.
    2. The merchants are not overly impressed with the way their products are affiliated on cheesy sites.
    3. As affilates won't use the nofollow tag in their links CJ is decided to use JavaScript links that the search engine spiders won't follow.

    Now for some reason the affiliates didn't like this.

    Er, am I getting it?
    Search engines have problems with garbage sites (garbage sites = nothing unique, scrapers, no value add datafeed sites which can but does not usually mean mom & pop sites, small affiliates, something other than a big corporate site), dublicate content, tens or hundreds of duplicate data feed pages. If they had a problem with affiliate sites in general, CJ woudn't be in business and affiliate marketing would be dead.

    Nobody has really heard much from the merchants on this topic at least in public. If merchants don't like they way their product appear, they can just expire affiliates.

    I don't think any PageRank passes through CJ links anyway so there is no reason for the engines to care. Talk of the nofollow tag popped up somewhere but that doesn't seem to be related to this whole thing. Nofollow was created more to stop blog & guestbook spamming which is definitely part of affiliate marketing but doesn't have much if anything to do with this situation.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    You can read his stuff here too:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/search.php?searchid=447667

  12. #12
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    Let's say somebody has a fashion website with articles, product reviews, etc. They do a write-up featuring several cute new ladies spring styles from a popular shoe designer. A week later, the links are displaying men's steel-toe electrical hazard-rated work boots. This is not an unlikely scenario.

    "1. The search engines don't want all the index pollution from affilate spam."

    CJ would have concerns about this?

    "2. The merchants are not overly impressed with the way their products are affiliated on cheesy sites."

    The merchants have the power to decline or terminate affiliation at will.

    "3. As affilates won't use the nofollow tag in their links CJ is decided to use JavaScript links that the search engine spiders won't follow."

    Many affiliates do use the nofollow attribute, but this is a non-issue anyway. Why should CJ care if spiders follow the links? Who said they did care if SE spiders follow their links?

  13. #13
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    I clicked your link but received:
    Sorry, either your search had no matches
    or this search id has expired.

    Please try some different terms if you
    were searching or click the "New Posts"
    link (below) to fetch the newest posts.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  14. #14
    Yup, Sure ... now let me check ... Cagles Mill's Avatar
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    3. As affilates won't use the nofollow tag in their links CJ is decided to use JavaScript links that the search engine spiders won't follow.
    If CJ actually had any concern about this then they would simply make the "No Follow" command a part of their link structure that we all copy when we get our links. Everyone then would be using the No Follow command unless a given affiliate went out of their way to remove it.

    Besides, I don't remember CJ ever suggesting that anyone use the "No Follow" command.
    Rick M.
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  15. #15
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter what "it" is--If Molander's for it, it's going to screw affiliates somehow.

    *reads latest anti-affiliate stuff from Molander*

    Yep. It's just more junk as I expected. He hates small affiliates and would like to see the sites of everyone who isn't a multi-million-dollar company die.

    Not to mention ignorant. Get this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Molander
    In short, if you can’t push Star Wars DVD’s well enough for Walmart.com can you be expected to push Gaggia espresso machines for WholeLatteLove.com?
    That's a typical Molander BS argument. There's probably a name for the logical fallacy he's using, but I can't be bothered to look it up. Refuting it is easy enough, though!

    I'll keep it to 3 differences apiece:


    WALMART:

    1) DVDs are a saturated market with every idiot jumping on it. It's probably as bad as music CDs and books.

    2) There are physical Wal-Marts all over the place! So, not much need to buy from walmart.com.

    3) They have a gajillion affs. Saturated affiliate market.

    WholeLatteLove:

    1) Item that not everyone and their aunt is trying to sell.

    2) The physical market is not saturated in WholeLatteLove stores.

    3) No giant well-known aff market causing competing sites to come out the wazoo.
    Last edited by Leader; June 5th, 2006 at 01:04 AM.

  16. #16
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    There's a whole gaggle of people who've banded together to proclaim themselves and each other "gurus." Just because they say it doesn't make it so.

    Molander's writings are at best facile and predictable; at worst they're incomprehensible.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador MeeMaw's Avatar
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    The article shows a Java logo on it. Interesting since Javascript and Java are two different technologies. They are barely even related.

    Many, I think, are confusing javascript with java itself. The terms are not interchangeable.

    That is my understanding. I could be wrong. CJ is going to implement javascript links and not some java-based technology.


  18. #18
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    I guess it comes down to how much income "spam" affiliate sites bring CJ. For all we know it might be 0.5%, and these new linking methods could be a ploy to charge merchants 5% more. If those were the figures, it would be a smart business move on CJs part.

    However, I can't help but presume that the making this MAJOR decision without doing deep enough research. I doubt they have a full grasp of how much income all those thousands of "mom + pop" spammy out-of-date sites bring CJ. My guess, based on how much all the pathetic independent affiliate programs we promote actually add up to, is that it's more like 20%.

    ...And if CJ have presumed that all their big affiliates will take such a change in their stride, I think they have little understanding of the margins that could be involved.

    We provide a large enough of CJ's revenue for us to have expected CJ to ask our opinion on this (makes us think it is their policy to never ask any affiliates for their opinions, directly - not surveys that come after the fact). But they haven't, and if they think we can still make a profit and update all our links & sites to this fancy new way, they are misguided!

    (we'll probably still do it, but other forms of income are suddenly looking way more attractive...)

  19. #19
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    Once again, CJ is not and need not be concerned about what SE's perceive as "spam".

    The biggest concerns on the affiliate end are 1) the inevitably increased page load times, and 2) issues related to the need to retool sites that took them 12 to 16 hours a day for 5 to 10 years to build, and the loss of control over what their web pages will say when links get fiddled with at the network/merchant end.

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Jeff envisions himself as a realist having rubbed shoulders with the network powers of all flavors. With him it's all about building sustainable billing hours for his own client base. That involves keeping track of the paths of least resistance for justifying his value-add consultancy relient upon the spin du jour. If it looks,smells and sells to clients like sh*t, then he changes paths like some highly paid Indian guide in the WWW frontier.

    His confidence comes from daily dealings, and game playing, with the idiots blinded by an advertising mindset. Bet he cringed when reading Andy Rodreguez's former Adwhore resume, seeing one group of merchant's, who need no other Indian pathfinder guide. He cringes also when the VC folks goes to war, armed with a continuous flow of datamined clickstream & conversion stats, seeking a bigger cut of the Ad budget pie outside the commissionable affiliate arena. Like all the smarties he refused to herd the ferral affiliate cats into a cookie setting force. He chose to align his clients with the known killer lion prides, and even used the jackles, vultures and other Eyeball battlefield carion who cleaned up on the messy carcuses. In advertising ...perception is everything... so maybe Jeff is setting himself up as some Jedi warrior fighting the evil advertising empire. All that is necessary is to smooze his clients with his sincerity to protect them from the antics of the known ferral cats and Darth Vadors.

    Me... I look to continue to align myself with the impact and preception imposed upon the real power ...THE SHOPPERS... when faced with javascript links planted with behavorial dataming "web bugs". Will the advertising mindset forces impose exit pops and time delayed incentive popups on that datamined affiliate traffic, while selling perloined info to DMA and IAB members.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  21. #21
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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  22. #22
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Charlie,

    Tell Mike i'll give him $10.00 to buy you seeds if he ever gets my name spelled right...
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
    www.andyrodriguez.com | E: abw@andyrodriguez.com | P: (888) 931-ANDY (2639) | Skype: affiliatedoctor | AIM & MSN: AffiliateDoctor | Subscribe To Our ABW Forum Posts | Follow me on Twitter | Join Our Affiliate Programs

  23. #23
    Member bobmutch's Avatar
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    ecomcity:

    You are very comdemning of Jeff for having a different view than you. I thing it would be more productive to show point by point where Jeff stands, where you stand, and then the reasons you differ with him then posting all the above rhetoric.

  24. #24
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    Molander loves to make newbies and idiots think he is very smart and is somewhat of an affiliate marketing guru. All he really is is a consultant who heavily promotes BHO parasites to his clients, then comes here and says he does not recommend them at all.

    He has proven that he is not interested in helping the affiliate marketing industry. All he is interested in doing is lining his pockets with YOUR money by having his clients in bed with every parasite in the book.

    Molander gets some kind of thrill getting people at ABW and other boards worked up over things. He has often come here and taken the most idiotic stance on issues and I maintain that it is only to inflame the masses.

    Not only does his statement that all affiliate links as we know them will go dark on June 23rd show that the man is a blithering fool, but also his assumptions as to why this is taking place, like CJ really gives a f*ck what Google thinks.

    Read what he has to say if you want, but also know you can get the same quality of information from a two-year-old sneezing in your face.


  25. #25
    Member bobmutch's Avatar
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    Andy Rodriguez:

    Er, seeds. What kind of seeds you selling?

    Is that avatar really you : )

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