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  1. #1
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    PPC or SEO?
    Hey guys,

    I am just trying to get an idea of how people around here are promoting things. I have been with PPC for a while, but click costs and competition keep growing higher and higher.

    I would like to get into some organic SEO sites, as it seems more of a long term deal than PPC. I have bought Aaron's SEO book, and was wondering if there were any other resources that I could use or might need. I really could use some good advice about SEO as I have lots of good ideas for sites and need to know what the next step is.

    I know I am not being very specific, but any advice would be appriciated.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Honestly? I think once you read a good SEO book (like Aaron's), you probably know about 85% of the knowledge available out there. Most of it will always just be rehashed.

    I've found my best understanding of SEO and PPC work through forums, mainly: ABW and WebMasterWorld.com. Also, even though it's mainly focused on blogs, I found that ProBlogger.net has a lot of great SEO advice.

    As far as PPC, there's a book called Winning Results with Google Adwords (specific to Adwords, but a great, great resource). You should check it out if you get a chance.

    I think your best bet would be to concentrate on SEO, but work with PPC as well (get the best of both worlds). For me, it's this order: Build and optimize site, promote via PPC, continuing optimizing (articles, etc), and wait for the SEO effort to kick in. So far, this has proven to work ok for me.
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
    Recent Project: Cheap Personal Checks (using DigitalQuill)

  3. #3
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Use every method that works.

    Build sites that are SEO friendly.

    Use PPC if you can generate a positive ROI.

    Make sure to provide value to the visitors so that your base will continue to grow. Return visitors and word of mouth are better than either SEO or PPC.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  4. #4
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    The best thing about seobook is that it is current.

    Aaron does a great job of keeping his book current.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the responses. Like I said I already have some ideas for websites, however I was wondering what is a general rule as far as competition goes? Some of my ideas I am sure are in competitive markets, but I believe I could build a site that is up to date that is better than some competitors I have seen with rankings of #3 or #4 in Google... any thoughts on this?

  6. #6
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    I love PPC, but with my method you gotta have deep pockets and watch your results like a hawk if you want to make some really good money.

    And the way I started and made a sweet ROI was to only focus on merchants that allowed trademark bidding...After I made a nice profit from that, I started focusing on more generic keywords since I had some money to spend with the added risk.

    A lot of people seem to think trademark bidding is rate...But I have found tons in Linkshare who have no problem as long as you aren't outbidding them. And if you can get a number 2 spot ad (the top blue ads) on Google with a hot merchant -- You can make a lot of money.

  7. #7
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    In all honesty I have to say neither. Make a unique site that somehow solves a problem or makes something easier for a broad range of users and you'll have a steady growing stream of traffic without having to rely other search engines that are ever constantly changing. It's a bit harder, but I sleep well at night knowing that my income isn't going to disappear the next time google updates or someone drives up the price on my keywords.

  8. #8
    Newbie TIDAH's Avatar
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    Uhmmm HI---Who's AARON??? Whats the Book Title??? Where can I get one???

    Newbie here

    Hey Josh---What I do is market an AWESOME SEO....if you would like to no more feel free to email me

  9. #9
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    Angry
    grrrr PPC i spent $200 and make nothing

  10. #10
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    Red face
    Quote Originally Posted by pstation
    In all honesty I have to say neither. Make a unique site that somehow solves a problem or makes something easier for a broad range of users and you'll have a steady growing stream of traffic without having to rely other search engines that are ever constantly changing. It's a bit harder, but I sleep well at night knowing that my income isn't going to disappear the next time google updates or someone drives up the price on my keywords.
    Can you show example ?

  11. #11
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affnice
    grrrr PPC i spent $200 and make nothing
    How did you do that? I generally set a low budget and if things are not working after $20 or $30 I pull the plug or modify what I am doing.

    I suppose one could be trying to promote webhosting for the $100+ leads. I would imagine the competition would be pretty stiff in that arena.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  12. #12
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  13. #13
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Use every method that works.

    Build sites that are SEO friendly.

    Use PPC if you can generate a positive ROI.

    Make sure to provide value to the visitors so that your base will continue to grow. Return visitors and word of mouth are better than either SEO or PPC.
    The above is so plainly, obviously correct that I thought it was worth repeating.

    Adam's recommended seobook.com - I second the recommendation strongly.

  14. #14
    Not that fat. ReallyBigGuy's Avatar
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    seo is good, but google and others change the algorythms so often that designing for that is difficult, and changes will be frequent. PPC can be steadier, but the best is the unique content.
    Find some topic you love, then become the expert with lots of info. if it's good and people respect your opinion or offering, the word travels fast

  15. #15
    Verbosely Virtuous Mutt spacedog's Avatar
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    melty,

    On the topic of trademark bidding, I've been with CJ for a year now and have only found about 5 merchants (with reasonably high 3-month EPCs, anyway... I ignore low ones) that allow trademark keyword bidding. I tried all of them, and 3 have turned out to be duds with few conversions and net negative ROI for the click price to keep them active, in my experience. The other two are fine and I'm making profit with them, albeit nothing to scream about.

    Is there some way of easily figuring out which CJ, SAS, and LS merchants allow TM bidding without slogging through hundreds of merchant descriptions? Maybe someone's already compiled lists? Thanks.

  16. #16
    Verbosely Virtuous Mutt spacedog's Avatar
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    Bump - TM bidding
    Sorry if it's a bit outta line for a newbie, but I'm going to bump this one. My question for melty about the wacky world of TM bidding has me really ravenous for some feedback, if anyone has any. It does seem like a rare (dying?) breed, merchants who allow TM bidding.

    And I've read some of the arguments over at Revenews on this. It doesn't seem like there's a definitive answer on whether it's better in general for the merchants who allow it. For the meantime, though, while companies are still doing it, I'll takes my chances if I can figure out who they are and at least some of them are profitable.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacedog
    Sorry if it's a bit outta line for a newbie, but I'm going to bump this one. My question for melty about the wacky world of TM bidding has me really ravenous for some feedback, if anyone has any. It does seem like a rare (dying?) breed, merchants who allow TM bidding.

    And I've read some of the arguments over at Revenews on this. It doesn't seem like there's a definitive answer on whether it's better in general for the merchants who allow it. For the meantime, though, while companies are still doing it, I'll takes my chances if I can figure out who they are and at least some of them are profitable.
    Here's the thing -- If PPSCE's allow people to bid on trademarks, then it should be in a merchants best interest to have affiliates clog up the top spots and keep competition away,

    If PPCSE's like Google restrict a trademark per the request of the company, then the merchant has no need to allow TM bidding.

    In my view, PPC TM bidding will eventually disapeer. I don't bank on it as secure and will only use it expecting it will be gone tomorrow.

    But while you can, use it to build a base of profit to re-invest elsewhere.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacedog

    Is there some way of easily figuring out which CJ, SAS, and LS merchants allow TM bidding without slogging through hundreds of merchant descriptions? Maybe someone's already compiled lists? Thanks.
    If there was a compiled list, then it wouldn't be profitable...Everybody would jump on the merchants on the list and drive up PPC costs to the point where most couldn't make decent ROI.

  19. #19
    Verbosely Virtuous Mutt spacedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melty
    If there was a compiled list, then it wouldn't be profitable...Everybody would jump on the merchants on the list and drive up PPC costs to the point where most couldn't make decent ROI.
    Good point. Thanks for the info. I'll do some more slogging, since capital is something I could really use after my recent reversal disaster with CJ. I hope that the merchant I got stomped upon by will do something for me, perhaps raise my commission rate after reading my, uh, "diplomatic hate mail".

    Any ballpark number you could divulge, though? How many TM-allowing merchants exist among the three big affiliate networks in your experience. Took me a while to find about 5 in CJ, and I'm sure I've missed some.

  20. #20
    The Google-hatesme! Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh
    Hey I am just trying to get an idea of how people around here are promoting things. I have been with PPC for a while, but click costs and competition keep growing higher and higher.
    One small ecommerce company I work with spends over $100,000/month on PPC and direct advertising. They stick with it because it's still a postive ROI. If you're getting a positive ROI, why cut back? On the other hand, positive ROI does not imply growth. If you want to grow, then you have to address the fundamental issue of organic traffic (which includes SEO).

    The most important thing to understant about SEO is inbound links and anchor text. As long as you are building static links (no dynamic parameters) which contain your keywords in the anchor text, you will eventually get targeted search engine traffic.

    As long as you understand this, you can focus on just building inbound links for TRAFFIC. Your sources of revenue traffic should be safely diversified between :

    - PPC
    - Organic Search Traffic
    - Natural Inbound Links
    - Newsletter Subscribers & Return Visitors

    PPC or SEO? How about this. Try using PPC to build the other types of traffic instead of just growing ever more dependent on PPC?

    - Chad

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