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  1. #1
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I'm building a mall and it's a genuine PITA. It's more fun to stop working and come over to abestweb and gab. That's where a boss would come in handy. He/She could come over and hollar at me when I stop working.

    Self discipline is easier said then done [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    My hats off to all of you who are able to work on your own without these dificulties.

    One good thing though is I don't have to worry about being fired and the work already done continues to keep making money vs. punching a time card and not getting anything when you don't work.

  2. #2
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    HEYDER, QUIT YAPPING AND GET BACK TO WORK!!!!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Thanks Buck<IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon38.gif>

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    lol! I'm going through the same thing...not only to I have to fight the pull of ABW but we've got the Grand Prix as well and young aussie rookie Mark Webber is sitting at #5...first race in, just bring it home Mark so I can finish my work [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    Same here, too lazy to "work", so here I am again , thinking and making observations.

    If there was a website "boss", I'd be fired. For sure.

    All is not lost though.
    On this visit, I have made the observation that this forum has changed a lot in just a few days, and for the life of me, I can not understand the reasoning behind a "Clover This !" section.

    I don't see how it is any improvement for the purpose it was intended, but instead, a distraction, that reduces this from a "website/affiliate discussion " forum, to a general shoppers hangout.

    No offense to anyone, but I doubt merchants will be too active in the near future , or any real serious issues discussed with this forum changing over to a general shoppers hang out.

    I must be the only one that feels this way , and I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I don't mean to.

    "Make your site the best !"

    What "site" does that word now represent ? A "camp site" for coupon hunters ?

    Good night .

    Lisa

  6. #6
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    Yahoo....

    Schumi Just won the Grand Prix...Am off to partying [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  7. #7
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Lisa,

    Why is that a problem? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    GET BACK TO WORK HEYDER!

  9. #9
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    lol

    Thanks webmistress

  10. #10
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    Lisa, I agree.

    What the heck is Clover This?! How long has that been there?

  11. #11
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Lisa, Bob,

    As far as I know the new clover people will become a part of this but in their own section.

    haiko's working up a new forum script

    [ 03-03-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

  12. #12
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, Haiko would probably be the best person to answer this. But as I understand it, ABestWeb is undergoing some growth and change. There are going to be three areas of interest. There will be affiliate marketing, coupons and freebies. They will be interrelated but each will have its own domain name. There will be opportunities of cross interaction on all three boards. If all you are interested in is affiliate marketing, then those are the boards you will tend to go to and you will find what you have always had. Other people, such as myself, might enjoy bouncing around all three.

    What is amazing is the number of new people here who have acquired an interest in our traditional topics. There has been a real interest in parasiteware, for instance, and site review. Some of them might even turn into great new affiliate marketers.

    And, who knows? You might make those hard earned affiliate dollars stretch farther by finding just the right deal here.

    If you don't want to shop or chit-chat, just don't go to Clover This. You still have what you had before. Nothing has been taken away from you. What's the problem?

    "I doubt merchants will be too active in the near future "

    Well, gee, you mean merchants would prefer that fewer people are likely to read their posts than more? They would rather just have our inbred group than have the chance that some of the new people might read their posts and think, "Hey, I could sell that on my site!" Go figure.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Heyder, I now have ADSL, and an XP machine with 512Mb RAM.

    Help, the boards keep sucking me back to my computer seat!!!

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lisa:
    All is not lost though.

    On this visit, I have made the observation that this forum has changed a lot in just a few days, and for the life of me, I can not understand the reasoning behind a "Clover This !" section.

    I don't see how it is any improvement for the purpose it was intended, but instead, a distraction, that reduces this from a "website/affiliate discussion " forum, to a general shoppers hangout.

    No offense to anyone, but I doubt merchants will be too active in the near future , or any real serious issues discussed with this forum changing over to a general shoppers hang out.

    I must be the only one that feels this way , and I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I don't mean to.

    "Make your site the best !"

    What "site" does that word now represent ? A "camp site" for coupon hunters ?

    Good night .

    Lisa
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Lisa ... I came to these boards after the MC fiasco, as did many other current and former members of MC, and I have to say that I fail to see the logic of your statements. From what I've gathered so far about AWB, its members and its purpose - I would think a group of shoppers who have money to spend and who *are* the consumers of the internet - the ones who make the click thrus and purchases that you, the website owners, make money from - would be an excellent addition to a forum such as this. As far as the merchants who come here - they now have a captive audience and a "test group" so to speak ...

    Merchants with products to sell, and Website owners making money through affiliate banners cannot make money unless someone is clicking and buying - and the "Clover This!" folks are those someone's, or at least a small group of those someone's - so why wouldn't it make sense to have that group of consumers as part of a website/forum like this?

    I also work for a business and I have a domain without a home, I'm thinking of finding a home for a domain and setting up a website for my business - the business itself is no competition with any member here (that I can see so far), but rather it can be income for those who are already here - website hosts, logo and banner designers, etc. and so on ... In other words, I have money to spend on website services, and I'd much rather give that money to someone I "hang out" with everyday - that I've gotten to know and trust - rather than just giving out to someone who I blindly found somewhere by searching around the web...

    I'm not sure what your business on the web is, however, if and when I do find out - I'm pretty sure now that I won't be using your services or purchasing from you [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ...

    jmtcw [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  15. #15
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    klynnnn

    Exactly

  16. #16
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Exactly!!!!

    There could be not greater gift to any abestweb members then to have the clover this thread.

    To think otherwise, well just think about it.

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    [ 03-03-2002: Message edited by: SSanf ]

  18. #18
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    Yeah, okay... Whatever.

    It's none of my business, and all I have is an opinion, but what is the issue that bothered MC the most ?

    I'll tell you what I think it was. It was not opinions, or comments that got many of you banned. I honestly think MC just got sick and tired of everyone just using them as an information exchange, and when it came time to buy, the vast majority of you shopped through Mypoints, or some other points program, using the deal or coupon code you found at MC, and could care less about shopping through their affiliate links.

    I don't see regulars , or "ultimate deal seekers" at coupon boards as "typical online shopers", and you can not argue, that these shoppers will stop at nothing to get absolutely THE BEST deal.

    They seem to be weeding out what they felt, opinionated trouble makers , steering visitors to shop elsewhere.

    Maybe I am one of those troublemakers here, and need to be "weeded out", so I'll save Haiko the trouble of banning me, and just ban myself .

    Do you think Jason from Direct Stuff just woke up one day and decided to charge for a premier membership ? I doubt it, they have their reasons, and I don't see how "drilling for stupid" in Jasons head, as one uses as a signature, would be profitable for anyone. You don't get that far in business by being stupid.

    As for the statement that Clover This ! may be the greatest gift, I think you will see the other meaning of "gift" , as in poison, from the German definition, when it causes the members of this forum to go at odds and compete with one another , like a bunch of cut throat real estate agents , all trying to "make that sale ".

    If anyone does deserve sales from the new shopping members, that would be Haiko. Wonder how he will feel, when the new members start shopping at other members sites, or neithor, at a points earning program.

    I bet he will feel just like Jason, and the owners of Deal of Day forums, as well as many other "deal seeker" forums . He will be reduced to begging people to shop through his site, or just accept the fact that he is being used.

    I just think it deserves a seperate domain, and doesn't belong here, that's all. I have nothing against anyone.

    Lisa

  19. #19
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Jason was charging out of greed to cover the expense of a lawsuit.

  20. #20
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    // This post became a bit lengthy. Sorry about that. I'm sure the spelling stinks too. //

    Well, sorry, but I agree with Lisa in a way...

    Dillution of the topics to be discussed is no good for a forum.

    Haiko will loose his niche if he continues to expand on the topics to be discussed on this domain. If it is dilluted too much, Abestweb will stop being what it is and become something else.
    When people no longer feel at home, they will leave.

    I feel that Abestweb still has a long way to go when it comes to serving the affiliate needs, and expanding into many other branches will not help us do our job better.
    A bulletin board's value to it's readers is directly related to it's ability to focus on the topic.

    I have the understanding that the coupon freaks will have their own domain in a while.
    I hope they get their own Bulletin Board too, with all the specialized forums they could dream of. This will give them a much better meeting place, certainly more valuable to them than the current setup on Abestweb.

    A separate domain and website for the different main topics doesn't mean that they can't work together on things related.

    Lisa: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>No offense to anyone, but I doubt merchants will be too active in the near future , or any real serious issues discussed with this forum changing over to a general shoppers hang out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, I'm so narrow-minded that I think the best for the merchants would be to have their own board too, where we could lurk around and ask an occational question when we have them. This will certainly bring more value to the merchants since they could exchange information valuable mostly to them.
    They would still lurk around on these forums, occationally trying to tell us what an excellent program they're running.
    A Merchant forum would be extremely valuable to me and certainly many of us when/if we are taking the steps to be merchants ourselves.
    ---

    I started out with one message board myself and also had the "problem" that there were too many people discussing to many different topics. (Traffic-wise it was GREAT!) Veteran users felt set aside, and new users didn't find what they expected. I had a problem.

    The solution was simple: Start a new site, specialized for the "disturbing" topic, and kick the "other" users over there.

    And I did the same again when that board grew out of it's own topics. Now I have three large messageboards, all very closely targetted on topics but related, all very valuable to my readers. Some users frequent all the forums, but most just stay at the forum most interesting to them.

    Our sites (me and my g/f) now serve +3 million pages per month, one third of the total pageviews on all female oriented sites in Norway (9 mill pages/month).

    We have a marketing budget of $0, and our growth comes from our extreme targetting on topics. People find the information extremely valuable and the AVERAGE visitor reads +60 pages!
    ---

    Three separate websites/forums would be excellent. I can see a progress and growth of users from site to site.

    Site #1. Coupon Shoppers / Bargain Hunters:
    They're in it for the money and some of them will want to make money instead of spending them and will progress to site #2.

    Site #2. Affiliates / Salesmanship
    They're in it for the money too, and some of them will progress to site #3, because that's where the big money is.

    Site #3. Merchants / How to run a successful webshop.
    ---

    That said, I don't mean to offend any of the new members. I don't mean to say that they're not welcome either. I've found some of your discussions quite interesting, especially since I run a few large boards myself and can relate to MC's mistakes, thinking I must try not to do the same.

    Also, I think a period of overlapping topics is unavoidable, as there is only one way for the board owner to discover the interference: It must be big enough to be disturbing. And your Clover forum isn't dominating Abestweb, so there isn't a problem. Yet.

    But it could develop into one if the couponers are allowed to take over more and more of the discussions. We (old timers) would loose the Abestweb we love.
    But I know Haiko wouldn't let that happen. It will be fixed before it becomes a problem. I know he loves us all! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  21. #21
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Diluted topics? Where do you see diluted topics?

    Everybody posts in the respected forum and a good moderator picks up the leftovers= very well focused discussions.

    I don't see the problem nor anticipate one coming.

  22. #22
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    I think a separate message board would be a good thing -- better for both groups.

    OTOH, I don't know ANYTHING about MC, so when the hoopla started... I didn't even know it was happening -- the main MC thread was over 17 pages long before I even looked in that forum (and we all know, I'm here every day, several times a day).

    If you don't read that section, this forum hasn't changed a lot.

    But I do think it has the potential to change drastically -- it's bound to happen when you have two groups with vastly different goals sharing one space.

    I don't see the MCers as a "gift" (I don't come here looking to make sales) and I don't see them as a "burden"... I see ABW more as temporary shelter for the MCers, but guess what? They liked it and now want a permanent home... that's not a bad thing in and of itself, but it does require adjustment and change.

    Like OveB, I believe that Haiko will work this out to ALL our advantage... how long have the MCers been around? A week? Maybe two? Surely we can give Haiko a bit longer than that to sort things out.

  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Ove,

    Very insightful post.
    www.Abestcoupon.com will go to the new series of forums for the couponers ans will abestfreebies.com for freebies people for their needs. I think it is a great opportunity for us also to go fishing in your own pond [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] if the deal is good enough as well as being able to recruit them as affiliates also.

    There should definitely be a separation between the different categories, I can hide the forums from x, y or z with the new software (parse errors - is why it isn't up yet). and the only blatant interactivity would be the active topics. I think being a full circle board with the Ad networks, merchants, affiliates and consumers allows us a niche that no one can really duplicate and as such I think the interactivity is the key.

    ------------

    Lisa,

    I put the default ad in the Clover This Forum to be our BE so that members could benefit from the traffic and maybe make some sales also. I doubt that our [affiliate] members will try to out post each other with affiliate links for two reasons: 1) Our members, just, aren't like that! 2) What is really needed for the MCers is a cash back type system like ebates or netflip which I am licensing but I will continue to also have members' ads (from the BE) on the site.

    My only words about what happened at MC are that .... "it [the board] thought it was bigger than it's members" and that is just wrong!

    Just as TigerDirect has a private forum, many others will also, so the merchants are and will be active posters, more so now than ever before.

    Please don't ban yourself, watch and see how it will be set up with the new software, and you know I wouldn't ban you for stating what you said ... don't be silly [img]tongue.gif[/img]

    Haiko

  24. #24
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lisa:
    Do you think Jason from Direct Stuff just woke up one day and decided to charge for a premier membership ? I doubt it, they have their reasons, and I don't see how "drilling for stupid" in Jasons head, as one uses as a signature, would be profitable for anyone. You don't get that far in business by being stupid.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    While I might agree with not getting that far in business by being stupid statement to a point - I also know that you don't get that far in business without customers - Jason could NOT have built up MC without it's members/customers - and you don't get far in business when you start pissing off all your customers and sending them elsewhere....

    Perhaps you missed some of the conversations at the beginning of the MC fiasco - it wasn't necessarily the $20 paid membership that was the problem itself - it was the presentation of such, and then the separation of the members - who considered each other family - by the administration of MC ...

    Jason's initial "letter of explanation" the day the premium membership was introduced (which was a surprise to everyone) said that because of a lawsuit, they needed money in order to stay up and running, within HOURS, that letter changed to "our site doesn't generate enough revenue to cover expenses, therefore we had to introduce paid - and at this point still voluntary - membership" ...

    Also, from what I can tell Jason "used" MC to sell his other business - he used/uses the hits, the page views, the membership numbers, and so on to show others what he can do for them -- but keep in mind this - those of us over at Clover This! are and were those statistics and numbers - if it wasn't for the members, he wouldn't have the data to use to sell his other businesses ... In my opinion, he was and is using the members just as much as they are and were using him ... If his membership numbers, hits and page views decrease, so do his statistics used as selling points... It seems to me like it was a win-win situation all the way around - UNTIL the paid membership was introduced - it was very poorly executed, it was a surprise, and on top of that, I see much evidence of a mandated separation of members -- while he may have wanted to, and needed to, "weed out" those members who weren't generating revenue for him, I certainly don't think he went about it the right way - since he also weeded out those who were generating revenue for him due to the poor execution of the change ...

    I can't speak for anyone else - but I have money to spend, I like to spend money - and on top of MY money, I purchase for the business where I work ... office supplies, computers and supplies, copiers, printers, phone service, etc.... I get to decide where the money is spent ... I dropped $1000 last week on a new computer on a whim - I can't imagine anyone not wanting that sale (Andy from Tiger Direct comes to mind here), and I'm getting ready to purchase another computer soon - I may not be spending millions of dollar as some large companies do, but I do spend money - and I thought the key of business is to want, get and keep the customer who has the money to spend on the particular product or service that you are selling ...

    I will say, however, that I also like to get a good deal ... I want the best that my money can buy for the least amount of money - and who doesn't? ...

    While I might be searching for freebies all day today - because it's fun - that doesn't mean that tomorrow I might not spend $1000 on something for my office, or I might feel like dropping $50-$75 on the Christmas ornaments I collect - which happen to be sold on the GoCollect.com website - so if I'm purchasing from there and the folks here use GC aff links, then someone could pick up that sale ...

    But, if you don't want me to stick around your hang out because you see me as only a freebie hunter, then you don't get any piece of the $1000 I spend tomorrow, or the $50-$75 I spend on a new ornament for my collection later this week - I look at that as your loss and someone else's gain ...

    Also, if you don't take the time to get to KNOW me at all, you wouldn't know that I have money to spend - because you think since I'm hanging out over at the deal/freebie board that I must not have any money - again, your loss ...

    Anyone that knows me at all, knows that I love to shop and spend money - but, I'm also particular about who I give my money to ... Again, I'm not sure what type of busines you're running that brought you to AWB, but if there are potential customers for your business hanging out over at Clover This!, I would think you would want to welcome them... but that's just my consumer point of view in the matter ...

  25. #25
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    Its one thing to acknowledge there is, or might be a problem, its another to seem to be unpleasant to people because you assume this is the solution. Getting rid of anyone should be a last resort - not a first. I for one appreciate the insight into people who look at internet commerce from a buyer's perspective.

    Being swamped by clovers would be a frightening thought because MC was of a different order of magnitude to ABW, but there is no reason to think it's inevitable. You can solve the dilution problem by restructuring the boards. A lot of internet buyers and a lot of internet sellers in one place together seems like a fine plan to me.

    This board is going to grow and as it does so it should partition itself off into areas of more specialized activity. I see no reason to panic, and no reason for anyone to leave. I think theres more danger in letting the opportunity pass.

    When I said taking in these people was very American, I was thinking of this quote from Napoleon:-

    "America is a fortunate country. She grows by the follies of our European nations."


    I

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