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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    I don't want to contribute to the page rank of the merchant i'm affiliated with
    There are some merchants who have their own direct affiliate programs (not through affiliate networks)

    If I add their affiliate links on my site, it will be as www.merchantname.com instead of www.affiliatenetwork.com

    this will increase the page rank of www.merchantname.com , making my affiliate site even more insignificant in terms of pagerank

    I think now, there's a solution to this problem, if we add rel="nofollow" , to each affiliate link

    for example: <a href="http://www.merchantname.com" rel="nofollow" >

    then, this will tell some SEs to ignore the links, when it comes to giving it more "page rank" points

    rel="nofollow" is/was originally meant to combat "Comment Spam" and to prevent comment spam from getting counted while assigning it a page rank.

    May be it could be used to "not contribute" more page rank credits to links

    http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050118-204728

  2. #2
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    Try to focus on selling STUFF

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merchant Consultant Team
    Try to focus on selling STUFF

    I am focussing on selling stuff ( and I have been working on selling stuff with NO PAY, for the work, as it takes time for a new site to get noticed) , hope the merchants will be greatful/ thankful for that.

    Why should I put merchant's direct links on my web space and on my time , and also contribute to their page rank?

    What sense does it make to me as an affiliate, to have people buy from them directly, while using my website to get their page rank points?

    This is just like those merchants who show a bigger, better promotion on their own website, compared to what's on the affiliates' site, who have little respect for affiliates.

    I'm just speaking out my mind, while working hard and smart and doing all the right things, and not getting paid for it.
    Last edited by best123; July 11th, 2006 at 01:05 AM.

  4. #4
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    Personally if i ran a program and you did that to me id can you from the program out of spite. you wish for them to honor their agreement and pay you for your services but you dont feel they are legit and are worthy of a recorded link? Kinda sounds like Christians against Christ, Selfishness, and a lack of common courtesy.....Just think how you would feel from the otherside cutting a check for you. Sounds like a piece of 100% bad karma.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsteitz
    Personally if i ran a program and you did that to me id can you from the program out of spite. you wish for them to honor their agreement and pay you for your services but you dont feel they are legit and are worthy of a recorded link? Kinda sounds like Christians against Christ, Selfishness, and a lack of common courtesy.....Just think how you would feel from the otherside cutting a check for you. Sounds like a piece of 100% bad karma.
    thats fine if you cut me off your program for this reason.

    i wont join your program.

    there's many things going on against hard working affiliates, and this is one of them.

    parasite-ware, spyware

    affiliate programs that show better coupons on their websites, when compared to what the affiliates have on theirs.

    besides, if it's your intention to get a higher page rank then i'll not even join your affiliate program. independent affiliate programs make sense when they want to cut cost from being in an affiliate network

    not to get their page rank increasked for free!!! while dumping their affiliates page rank while the affiliate is working so hard to promote their products.

    dont compare merchants to christ, christ gave away his life, merchants will never do that for an affiliate, especially the ones who want a higher page rank for free!

    if merchant wants a higher page rank from their affiliates, then those merchants should pay affiliates for every link they place on their website

    getting it for free is unethical of them. , it pushes the affiliates site lower, because they get the highest page rank.

    so now , its a waste of time and effort for affiliates, adding their links , while making their merchant's site the most popular one on the search ranking.

  6. #6
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    Look dont take it personal. But why don't you go ahead and bring up the Loch Ness Monster as an excuse or why you don't see Dwight D. Eisenhower at the Burger King Drive thru Window?

    Your counterpoint is pointless.

    If you feel the merchant is an agent of Goldstein or Scumware why are you attempting to promote it for profit? ...and if they are anything less than something you think is moral to move, why wont you give them a real link?

    If they are indeed the true and best place to seek an answer from your site then by default they should get the real deal.

    I just can't see the point in believing in something enough to turn a buck for yourself, but not worthy of being counted as a legitimate internet destination...BY SOMEONE WHO STANDS TO GAIN FROM LINKING TO IT.

  7. #7
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    "getting it for free is unethical of them. , it pushes the affiliates site lower, because they get the highest page rank"

    How is this unethical?

    "if merchant wants a higher page rank from their affiliates, then those merchants should pay affiliates for every link they place on their website"

    Is not giving you a cut a form of payment? I think you might ber missing the whole concept. Also if they are a scum agent at best they wont be around at the top for long anyway due to a lack of links.

  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager nish's Avatar
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    Can't say for other merchants, but I don't see anything wrong if an affiliate puts up 'nofollow' with the merchant's links. Just like doing the redirects, it's an individual affiliate's choice. Damn if I ever remove an affiliate because of this. There is nothing in the agreement that says the affiliate can't use 'nofollow' with the merchant's tracking links.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Cool
    There are many merchants that want to get rid of Affiliates after they acquire their client pool or consumer pool.

    After all, why pay affiliates while they can acquire customers on their own.

    Getting a higher page rank or attempting to get a higher page rank , is one of these efforts.

    I want to maximum pay for my hard work, just like how merchants want maximum return on investment, they'll do what ever they want to get their way, so why not me?

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nish
    Can't say for other merchants, but I don't see anything wrong if an affiliate puts up 'nofollow' with the merchant's links. Just like doing the redirects, it's an individual affiliate's choice. Damn if I ever remove an affiliate because of this. There is nothing in the agreement that says the affiliate can't use 'nofollow' with the merchant's tracking links.
    Thanks nish . I appreciate it.

    Again, there is nothing wrong with direct affiliate programs, when a merchant wants to cut costs from being in a network. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

  11. #11
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    "Can't say for other merchants, but I don't see anything wrong if an affiliate puts up 'nofollow' with the merchant's links. Just like doing the redirects, it's an individual affiliate's choice. Damn if I ever remove an affiliate because of this. There is nothing in the agreement that says the affiliate can't use 'nofollow' with the merchant's tracking links."

    Well normally I would not either, unless it was known that it was done purely out of spite. Normally there is no way of knowing what the intent is. But if known for certain this was the reason I would can them without hesitation nomatter what they bring in on principle. If they dont wish me the best, I certainly would not return the favor by sharing success with them. I just dont like what I would perceive as selfish and vain....and I would respond in kind. Personally if I can't endorse something, I won't sell it.

  12. #12
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    WTF?! Since when did you become an advocate for crappy tightwad merchants?

    It IS unethical for merchants to try to get free SEO services on the backs of affs. SEO normally pays whether or not a sale occurs, and link campaigns can run hundreds of dollars or more--regardless of results!

    Affiliates, on the other hand, are paid for SALES, and NADA for getting the merchant PageRank. Not only that, it's against the affiliates' best interest to be outranked by the merchant.

    So, it's perfect sense and is completely ethical to make sure that the merchant gets what they pay for--without extras. It's called delivering what was contracted for.

    unless it was known that it was done purely out of spite. Normally there is no way of knowing what the intent is. But if known for certain this was the reason I would can them without hesitation nomatter what they bring in on principle.
    So you'd can everyone who doesn't let you screw them. I say you'd be doing them a favor, because then they may get a decent merchant instead!

    I just dont like what I would perceive as selfish and vain....
    And setting up your links to purposely steal free SEO isn't selfish?!?!?? And then adding insult to injury by firing those who catch you at it and block the gambit?!?!??

    If a merchant's tracking happens to be set up so a regular link passes PR, that MAY just be a byproduct of how the tracking software works. BUT, if one fired an affiliate for blocking the effect, then it's clear that all the merchant was really after was a FREE SEO campaign, and that merchant would be scum.

  13. #13
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    some feel that the "nofollow" is just plain good for personal seo efforts and I have yet to see a merchant that stated that it couldn't be used. In fact BackCountry posted that this should be done for indexing purposes (granted it was for the cj program)

    I don't see what the big deal is just do it...what is all the fuss about? Do you expect them to tell you to add it? Any in house AM that told you to add the tag, so that their site didn't get the boost should be fired on the spot!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    WTF?! Since when did you become an advocate for crappy tightwad merchants?.
    No person in my position in their right mind would be an advocate for crappy merchants. keyword = crappy

    Thats not the issue. The issue is people who stand to gain from a merchant by introducing their products and services, but at the same time dont feel the merchant deserves any link talley when they themselves are referring people to the destination. If the merchant is a skank and ripping people off, then their link count would drop due to vanishing links and their time at the top will be shortlived. It's not riding off the backs of anyone. It part of the balance of how things work and it's fair because generally it applys to everyone.




    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    It IS unethical for merchants to try to get free SEO services on the backs of affs. SEO normally pays whether or not a sale occurs, and link campaigns can run hundreds of dollars or more--regardless of results!
    So is anyone who gets a link off someone else's site is "riding on their backs"?

    If you boil it all down. Swapping links with people for the purpose of increasing your placement in the serps is manipulating the engine. It rare to find sources to place links when you dont have to give at least something back. In this case it's not a return link but a promise of a share in the spoils. They don't pay for their affiliates to post their url on their site because it's just plain stupid when they agree to offer commissions based on performance instead. If it's not an honest and legitimate internet destination, WHY IN THE HELL IS IT BEING LINKED TO ANYWAY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    Affiliates, on the other hand, are paid for SALES, and NADA for getting the merchant PageRank. Not only that, it's against the affiliates' best interest to be outranked by the merchant.
    Thats just the nature of the beast. Everytime a websurfer visits a page off the serps in some engines it contributes to their pagerank. Ever click on a site like say CNN.COM off the serps and see a popup that says something like "Thanks for clicking on our link off Google. Please insert your details below so you can be paid for increasing our pagerank."? I doubt it and so what.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    So, it's perfect sense and is completely ethical to make sure that the merchant gets what they pay for--without extras. It's called delivering what was contracted for.
    The point is you are not really giving them anything that they dont actually deserve if you recommend the merchant and hope to gain something from the link. Can't you see by having the merchant's link on your site you are saying " I find this to be a good source of what you are looking for. So much so I trust this party to actually pay me for sending you there." but the link is not legitimate? C'mon. So what is left to think of your site from outside the box? You are actuially referring folks away to someone else on a topic, but your page should be ranked higher?

    Thats why aff urls in this case have value. You are not giving them anything.

    Just because this is better for the merchant in terms of serp placement does not mean it is wrong. If they are selling a particular product, have more affiliates doing it then anyone else ect, chances are they should be near the top. I cant see why they deserve not to be.

    Is this in my best interest?

    Hell No. But sometimes what is right does not work in my best interest. I would like for merchants to also think about my best interest as well...What kinda karma is it when I don't want to return the favor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    if one fired an affiliate for blocking the effect, then it's clear that all the merchant was really after was a FREE SEO campaign, and that merchant would be scum.
    Is the link for the subject matter legit or not? If not why is it there anyway? Their fine SEO placement by definition over a period of time would also be a consequence of their good business practices = having allot of affiliates that maintain their links. If they dont have it together then they start losing affiliates and rightfully their placement will drop. My mind has not changed. I guess I would then be scum for not wanting to partner with someone who would like to gain from offering my products or services, but at the same time goes out of their way to make the engine think they are not associated with my products. Well guess what. If you are attempting to move it you are associated with it and it's that simple.

    Im sure there are folks out their looking to start programs to not just get affiliates, but maybe even move up in the serps. SO WHAT! If they do things right they just might find themselves there and able to stay. I can't see how they dont deserve this. This has effected me many many times. Ive bumped the merchant above my own links just do to my own efforts to move their stuff. It's a bummer, but it does not mean the Merchant was skanking me.

    Im sorry but the only thing that is not fair is doing this. Not in our best interest but I don't base my business practices on just what is best for me alone. Maybe one of the biggest problem is too many merchants may have the same selfish attitude as too many affiliates.

    It's Fair but it also Sucks.

  15. #15
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think it sounds like a darned good idea!
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  17. #17
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    Thats not the issue.
    The issue is MAKING MONEY in return for efforts.

    The issue is people who stand to gain from a merchant by introducing their products and services
    Gain what? What is there to gain by spending OUR time putting up links for a merchant other than when there are sales? Pray tell - gain what?

    If a click converts to a sale a commission is paid - that's the nature of the agreement and that's what's gained. Otherwise nothing is gained except sending a visitor off the page to that conniving, greedy merchant when we could have sent them to another merchant who isn't looking for FREE SEO AND LINK BUILDING SERVICES.

    at the same time dont feel the merchant deserves any link talley when they themselves are referring people to the destination.
    No, merchants need to PAY for SEO services.

    The choices:

    1.. Get paid affiliate commissions by merchants for sales made as a result of sending them customers.

    2. Charge clients for SEO services rendered.

    Two different business models, and #2 is much easier, since they're not expecting a FREE LUNCH, except for the brain-sucks who are easily spotted and dispensed with.

    BTW, we can easily see how long the Linkpop Network lasted around affiiliates who know how to watch out for their own arses.

    If the merchant is a skank and ripping people off, then their link count would drop due to vanishing links and their time at the top will be shortlived.
    No, if they're squeezing links out of the unsuspecting then that makes them conniving, deceptive skanks and their link count won't drop because of *some* out there not knowing better. Otherwise such schemes wouldn't still be around.

    It's not riding off the backs of anyone. It part of the balance of how things work and it's fair because generally it applys to everyone.
    It sure is. Since when does affiliate marketing work by giving away free links. And yes, it is riding off the backs of the ones who are duped. They're giving away plenty.

    Added:

    Incidentally, there are merchants I'd link to because I like their sites, but not by giving them "live" links as a requirement of being part of their affiliate program, since doing that detracts from our own sites while benefitting theirs. Especially after BigDaddy, it would be sheer folly.
    Last edited by webworker; July 11th, 2006 at 10:45 PM.

  18. #18
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    Wake up.

    It's not about free SEO. That is just a deserved consequence.

    The only skank act going on about this would be someone pretending to fool the engine into thinking an actual given association does not exist...when it does. Sides read the title of this thread...being:
    "I don't want to contribute to the page rank of the merchant i'm affiliated with"

    maybe it should of been "I want to hide reality so my pages can list higher than where im trying to send people to" or "i dont want to help the company that can help me"

    you said:

    "What is there to gain by spending OUR time putting up links for a merchant other than when there are sales?"

    Ever heard of affilaite marketing? its a bit different then pay per click.

    For a second just forget about money.

    Say you like poodles and you found a cool site about poodles and you linked to it off your personal homepage. You dont put that code in it...becuase you feel people should see this site and consider it for poodles. The search engine takes your opinion via its algo and maybe you helped that site out to get near the top.

    Yet if it's a company that is honoring an agreement to pay you for traffic on a performace based level suddenly people feel they deserve compensation for the consequences (their placement improves) of linking to them?

    C'mon .

    So what you are saying that if a firm has more affiliates then anyone....who are proactively linking the site in question as a serious source to conduct business in whatever area they deserve no credit for it? So is it that how pageranks are scored that has people bent?


    You said,
    "Since when does affiliate marketing work by giving away free links. And yes, it is riding off the backs of the ones who are duped. They're giving away plenty."

    Well who in this case is actually misrepresenting what the reality is? The merchant who has their base url in their tracking code or the affilaite trying to hide an obvious for profit hopefully serious business relationship?

    If you dont think the link is serious of a subject or there is not enough to be had by linking to it...WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU LINK TO IT?

    I can't belive people have the mentality to even suggest that extra monies should be due as a consequence of their tracking url in SEO effects. It's utterly stupid.

    Just remember that if you ever start your own program you are honorbound to instruct your affiliates to place this code in the links you provide to them...lets see how much more you have to spend and how well you will do against the other merchants who are making and paying their affiliates more...because they can afford to do so.


    Me Me Me Me Me....I deserve Payment for Everything Me Me Me Me Me


    Get Real. It's not now or ever going to happen any other way.

  19. #19
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    >>I don't want to contribute to the page rank of the merchant i'm affiliated with

    Doing so means more of their site will get crawled and indexed (deeper), and if you do such links, then less of your site can end up getting crawled and indexed.

    Everything Me Me Me Me Me
    Merchant:

    Give Me Me Me Me Me links so My My My My My site will rank higher in the SERPs and more of My My My My My site will get crawled and indexed.

    Send Me Me Me Me Me your traffic whether or not those visitors buy anything or not so that My My My My My site will get free branding for Me Me Me Me Me and get Me Me Me Me Me more bookmarks.

    As for You You You You You affiliates, go pay for PPC, because My My My My My site will overtake you in the SERPs because all of You You You You You contributed to My My My My My Pagerank and Linkpop and inbound anchor text. And if My My My My My site doesn't convert for you and you don't make any money, that's just tough noogies - that's business.
    Last edited by webworker; July 11th, 2006 at 11:17 PM.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    I never really trusted the rel nofollow deal.
    Supposedly it was started so blogs could stop comment spam. (no pr advantage)

    Personally I don't feel comfortable starting a new site, with say 1000 links. 990 of them no follow.
    "Hey search engine, Heres my new site!, its not a blog, but its got 99% links which I don't recommend, might be spam etc. yum

  21. #21
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    I dont think that the Serp Gods would see this code as something pleasant. Think about it. It's really likely one of the major purposes for the page but you are at the same time discrediting it. Why would the link not actually deserve to be given it's credits when you are actually attempting to get people to go for it? You are seriously trying to make money off it...Does that not qualify as a serious link?

    OK it helps their SEO and you dont get any special credit for it...wheaaa! wheaaaa!

    I guess people like this also wish they could put a special code in their link partner's links that would give them a cut of the link partners commission from visitors who click on the partners link from their site....because only links were exchanged and its not fair for someone to click their link then go to the other site and buy something and you dont get $ for it....but thats the consequence of exchanging links to improve your placement....guess what you really may have come out on the losing end or you may have of "stolen" someone else's customers...

    Here is how it works:

    you put up the link because you think its good and you will get paid if its worth anything. thats your return.....you can put a microscope up the @55 of the situation to come up with some half baked angle of why you should get more...but it's pointless.

    That company gets the better listing likely because of their numerous affiliates and it's rightful. If you wish to disguise the code to hide this reality, help out the competition of your revenue partner...go for it.

  22. #22
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    ...and if you ever start an affiliate program of your own you will naturally make it manditory for all of your affiliates to put this code in their affiliate links to your site. then after you noticed all your affiliates have you help hostage in the serps you would then start paying them to remove the code being so dedicated to getting money to your affiliates...

    unlike all the other "evil" merchants who would be kickin your @55 all over the internet. get real. don't make up stories where money is "due" that dont exist.

  23. #23
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsteitz

    That company gets the better listing likely because of their numerous affiliates and it's rightful. If you wish to disguise the code to hide this reality, help out the competition of your revenue partner...go for it.
    I know you can't be idiotic enough to believe that. In this case Amazon would win out over a new merchant every time. obiously this would not always be a good thing nor a quality listing. This is the reason links are such a bad thing to base rankings on.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by simcat
    "Hey search engine, Heres my new site!, its not a blog, but its got 99% links which I don't recommend, might be spam etc. yum

    Well Put

  25. #25
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    OK it helps their SEO and you dont get any special credit for it...wheaaa! wheaaaa!
    We hurt our own sites while helping theirs.

    Cheapskate merchant doesn't want to have to pay an SEO or a link develoer or link broker for getting links for them, they want it for free. wheaaa! wheaaa! wheaaaa!

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