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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Curious about how much you work with PPC
    Ok, so it's no secret as to what G has recently done with their Adwords system. At least for me, the shock is pretty much over (a few sites affected, but not all), now I'm trying to find ways to work around that problem.

    What I noticed, is that there are only a handful of people that have spoken up about this issue over the last few days (very few compared to the # of members here).

    And this is what I'm curious about: Do most of you advertise heavily in other ways, other than PPC?

    Is SEO still the preferred method of getting visitors to your site?

    Not trying to pry any secrets away from you. Just want to see what's keeping everyone calm, and about their business as usual.

    Thanks!
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  2. #2
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    I think that the issue may be that many members have GOOD landing pages or are taking a wait and see attitude.

  3. #3
    15 years and counting
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    MoneyBusiness - Is SEO still the preferred method of getting visitors to your site?
    It has always been for me. I started way before affiliates had to pay to get traffic.
    only a handful of people that have spoken up about this issue over the last few days
    I'm not a PPC player but I've an account with Google and I'm trying a few keywords from time to time. In December I had a Google optimisation expert suggesting me new keywords and how to set up my campaigns. I declined the offer (because it was not the accurate description of my web sites) and a few days later I saw all my own keywords deactivated with a new set level of $10.00
    So, it seems I was one of the first hit by Google (more than 6 months ago) but I don't care. I've never spent over 1 or 2K a month with them and I've the feeling they have no interest for my business.

    One way or an other, they are trying to keep affiliates away of their natural searches and now of adWords.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    I will never again doubt how far G is willing to go. The only reason they would want to do that (get affiliates completely out) is if they're trying to get into the game themselves (which I believe).

    It has always been for me. I started way before affiliates had to pay to get traffic.
    I guess, aside from MSN and Yahoo, that's pretty much where I'll have to concentrate more of my efforts. With so many in this business now, it's going to be a hard road to travel...
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  5. #5
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    And this is what I'm curious about: Do most of you advertise heavily in other ways, other than PPC?
    I am getting better returns in other ways. Look at your community. There are event sponsorship opportunities where you can reach a few thousand people for often less than a hundred dollars. Look at High School event handbills, street signage and hundreds of other branding opportunities. Of course, you need a site worthy of branding. It needs to be a sticky site with a high value add to the visitor. There are so many branding opportunities out there that it isn't even funny, and half or more of them are tax deductable. That makes them even sweeter!

    I play in PPC pretty well, but I also lay in bed at night thinking up new and inventive ways to promote my site(s). At times like this, I am forced to think even more about other non traditional promotional opportunities that are out there.

    Some of the most effective things I have done to create a buzz about a web site cost only a few hundred dollars.


  6. #6
    15 years and counting
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    Affiliate marketing is an ever changing business. We have to adjust our strategy and discover new ways to attract visitors and to keep them buying from us.
    I saw Alta Vista going up and down, same for Inktomi, Oversure and Yahoo.
    Next on line is Google. These people are too greedy. We need a change.

  7. #7
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=75677

    121 posts, >1,700 views. It's being talked about here, but since affs come in many flavors and sizes, not all are ppc'ers.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    I am getting better returns in other ways. Look at your community. There are event sponsorship opportunities where you can reach a few thousand people for often less than a hundred dollars. Look at High School event handbills, street signage and hundreds of other branding opportunities. Of course, you need a site worthy of branding. It needs to be a sticky site with a high value add to the visitor. There are so many branding opportunities out there that it isn't even funny, and half or more of them are tax deductable. That makes them even sweeter!

    I play in PPC pretty well, but I also lay in bed at night thinking up new and inventive ways to promote my site(s). At times like this, I am forced to think even more about other non traditional promotional opportunities that are out there.

    Some of the most effective things I have done to create a buzz about a web site cost only a few hundred dollars.
    Was talking to someone else about that the other day. I want to do that, but like you said, I need a site worth promoting in that fashion. I've got one that I think would work that way (although I've not thought out any plan for offline advertising yet). It's been stuck in my brain for a few weeks now, like a broken record.

    I'll admit, still being new, I've concentrated about 75% of my efforts on PPC, with the rest in SEO. Having said that, my sites have little stickiness, and were there for the "one-time" commissions. Repeat customers just never hopped high enough on my radar. I can see clearly now that that was a mistake.

    Clear something up for me? When you say "...with a high value add to the visitor.", are you speaking of adding additional goodies that makes your offers even better? Or am I missing the point?
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=75677

    121 posts, >1,700 views. It's being talked about here, but since affs come in many flavors and sizes, not all are ppc'ers.
    Oh yea, definitely keeping an eye out on that thread. That's the one I'm talking about. Good amount of posts, but from only about 30, maybe 40 members or less (guessing).

    Watching the other forums at ABW, and things are just going on as usual. I'm not saying they shouldn't...just seems more quite than I would've thought, which lead me to wonder how many were actual PPC'ers.

    but since affs come in many flavors and sizes, not all are ppc'ers.
    Totally understand!
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  10. #10
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I've always said that the best way to get traffic to a site is by building a good site and providing what people want. That traffic is free and stable. At the same time, however, don't neglect SEO and there's nothing wrong with doing PPC if you can get a positive ROI. Strategies that rely entirely on just SEO or just PPC can be highly profitable but they're much more risky/vulnerable. If you're in that boat, just be sure to diversify.
    Michael Coley
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  11. #11
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    I spend $60 in google and $60 in yahoo but it seems that people who clicked on the ads are usually other affiliates? Since nothing changed for my site.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    What better kick in the butt to start diversifying?

    I will say this: I am glad this happened now, rather than a year or two down the line, when much more of what I have is so dependent on this business.

    It was a definite eye-opener.
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  13. #13
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    In a way this event have made me pause and think about the overall strategy I have been following for my sites. One thing for sure - nothing is said to be given or can be taken for granted. What works today can collapse tomorrow.

    Diversification and constant creative innovation seems to be way to survive. Most of the long time affiliates seem to have gone through such upheavals and have taken steps to anticipate and avoid these sudden choke points. Being at the mercy of such situations is an unneveving experience - as I relied solely on PPC for traffic.

    Will Google back down? Being the second time this has been widelly implemented, they probably want to weed out all the non value sites and will make this stick as far as possible. The backlash seems to be far muted than I had expected.

  14. #14
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    It's one way I get traffic. I've always looked at it as a leg. When first starting out most usually start with SEO (free traffic) or PPC. I started with the free traffic and then on to PPC. I've always looked at being dependent on one source of traffic as hopping around on one leg. Some are good at hopping around but most will eventually fall, I've seen plenty of people wiped out like that. As time goes on, grow more legs so if you lose one you can still stand. You ever see a dog with 3 legs? Still manages to get around. More legs being more sources of traffic. Lack of traffic the #1 reason affiliates fail. My analogy overkill of the day It's why I have a big interest in offline marketing. No matter what any of the SE's do you can always have a website. Just have to learn to get traffic.

    Reminds me of this thread at WMW which i was reading, quest to $300 a day. I didn't jump in until he said something along the lines of free traffic from Google being his base. He learned the hard way.

    http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum20/3974-1-30.htm

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Ok, yeah, right now I'm a man with half a leg.. Down but not quite out yet - I can still kick ass with a stub!

    btw - good analogy..
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  16. #16
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    In my industry I have noticed tons of click fraud and bad clicks from PPC. I dont even use it.

    One weekend I did an experiment. I ran my account wide open at a high CPC. No difference in sales!

    All industries are different I expect.

  17. #17
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    Clear something up for me? When you say "...with a high value add to the visitor.", are you speaking of adding additional goodies that makes your offers even better? Or am I missing the point?
    If you have a site about hockey, provide them with good articles and player profiles. If your site is about photography, have lots of good, well-written content on photography and keep it updated and current.
    Whatever your site is about, give them a reason to return. Having a link to LandsEnd so they can buy a shirt is not a reason to come back.
    I made the same mistake you did when I started. It is correctable.


  18. #18
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Posts about "G"
    It would be nice to hear numerous members post their objections to the new Google SE PPC business model. Perhaps these posts could be forwarded to Google to see if it impacts their philosophy at all.

    While it is good to see some of the alternate ideas for getting around the problem posted and shared, and also to see the many objections to their recent move, we (ABW'ers) are not Google. If Google actually read these complaints, along with what must be hundreds of thousands of complaints they have been receiving by phone and email, perhaps they may re-think their latest actions.

    We share thoughts here, but Google is the only one that can do anything about it. Would it make sense to refer their editorial and adwords departments to ABW to review what the sentiment is? One thought is "oh - heck it won't make a bit of difference to them, so why waste the time." But unless they get plenty of feedback there is no way to tell what - if any impact it may have.

    Just a thought for those who are being injured by these recent changes.

    Best Regards
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  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    If you have a site about hockey, provide them with good articles and player profiles. If your site is about photography, have lots of good, well-written content on photography and keep it updated and current.
    Whatever your site is about, give them a reason to return. Having a link to LandsEnd so they can buy a shirt is not a reason to come back.
    I made the same mistake you did when I started. It is correctable.
    That makes sense. Thanks Scooter.
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  20. #20
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Let's see a raise of hands
    I'm curious - how many ABW'ers use PPC as a notable (20% or above) means of driving traffic to your sites?

    If you fit this category - raise your hand with a quick post.


    Cheers!
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  21. #21
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    If you have a site about hockey, provide them with good articles and player profiles. If your site is about photography, have lots of good, well-written content on photography and keep it updated and current.
    Whatever your site is about, give them a reason to return. Having a link to LandsEnd so they can buy a shirt is not a reason to come back.
    I made the same mistake you did when I started. It is correctable.
    Yes, I have learned that this is the key to a stable income site. Make it good enough, and many different opportunities (in addition to PPC) will be available. The site will naturally rise to the top of SERPs and start creatiing free traffic as well.

    I have tried raw ppc on sites/landing pages with minimal value (no extra content or sales info) but can not make more than I spend with a few minor exceptions.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  22. #22
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    Thanks UncleScooter.
    Back when I was trying PPC in my industry I was in a sell-sell-sell mode and was not interested in branding or even bookmarking. hehe I was a little short sited. Who knows maybe I will try some in a bit.

  23. #23
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    PPC'ing a flat site, without a privacy policy, with nothing but aff links on it, is dead.

    It started in Nov 2005 with the first algorithm update to landing page quality score, the second wave came through in April/May and this latest wave has had the deepest reach so far.

    Hmmm... any one page wonders out there, who skip the policies and the other elements that a normal site has, care to comment? Perhaps a CJP ebook-writing bragging, self-promoter type out there who likes to teach us how it all really works?

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    I have a few one page sites - but they're not wonders... I've been focusing a lot lately with at least building some datafeed sites. The thread by Dirk for datafeeds has been a super help so far.
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  25. #25
    Newbie ceetee's Avatar
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    I have a single shopping site with 90% of the traffic coming from PPC. Basically one product per landing page with single text and image aff. links with no target="_blank". Crossed fingers I haven't been affected yet.

    But I'm totally in the dark as to why I've been spared and others haven't. Like Donut I'm not counting on my good fortune continueing.

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