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  1. #1
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    Thumbs down PPC a necessary evil?
    I just finished reading an article in Revenue magazine in which a super affiliate commented on how much he spent on Adwords. It really made me wonder how many successfull affiliates used PPC and how many didn't.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    Spending money and time on PPC?

    I'm thinking its like an addict buying crack.
    Instant gratification (Maybe), but does'nt help your longterm health one bit.

    And then your 'dealer' raises your prices 10x, you're SOL.

    Think i'll concentrate on seo, wordofmouth, 'traffic' text links, offline marketing , etc.
    at least for now
    Last edited by simcat; July 19th, 2006 at 06:50 AM.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador meleemel's Avatar
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    We have been discussing this here if you missed it

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=75813

  4. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb
    I haven't got that far in my copy yet.

    But I'm reminded of the lead time for article inclusion in the magazine world. Wonder how that person feels about PPC now . . .

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Always seems like three schools of thought here: those that revile PPC and worship SEO (as volitile as it can be), those that find PPC profitable, and those that are smart enough to try both.

    Not quite sure why the third option seems like such a rare one...
    Follow my dog, Maya, and I, as we fumble around the affiliate marketing world: www.MarketingMaya.com
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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    I agree that a successful online business with a profitable business plan should do PPC, SEO and anything else to generate traffic and sales.

    - Scott
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  7. #7
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snib
    I agree that a successful online business with a profitable business plan should do PPC, SEO and anything else to generate traffic and sales.

    - Scott
    i tend to agree.
    There has to be a mix

  8. #8
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    There's an old saying "The business that does not advertise, does not do business".
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  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    A diversified advertising program is a must for serious growth. As for short term versus long term PPC gratification however, I believe a lot of that answer is dependent upon what you sell.

    If I sell IPods, the buyer doesn't use it up and re-order another one every one to two months. On the other hand, if I sell consumables, or necessity consummables, a good percentage of customers re-order the same product regularly.

    In our case, a high percentage of customers re-order the same product, (or add a product here and there) every one to three months, so there is no continued ad expense related to acquisition of that customer. In other words, what I spent on PPC to generate that customer is amortized over time.

    No doubt PPC is getting expensive. For that reason, focus on ROI over the longer term is important. In the long term, the revenue I invest in PPC today and the ultimate profitability is based on multiple re-order ROI over the next twelve months and beyond. We have many customers who re-order the same product(s) bi monthly, so the original CPA is a moving / self reducing target.

    But that said, there is no doubt that it is far better to have your eggs in several baskets versus one - so a diversified ad campaign is always good.

    Continued Success
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  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    In the long term, the revenue I invest in PPC today and the ultimate profitability is based on multiple re-order ROI over the next twelve months and beyond. We have many customers who re-order the same product(s) bi monthly, so the original CPA is a moving / self reducing target.
    Ok, so that's from a merchant's point of view, the cost of PPC being the cost of long-term customer acquisition.

    It isn't the same for an affiliate. Pay for the ad spot, send them to the merchant, get a bit of commission and that's the end of it, with the merchant getting the long-term benefit of a repeat customer.

    The numbers don't crunch the same way on both ends.

  11. #11
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    I say try and do both but keep an eye on the PPC and beware of falling into the "Monkey See, Monkey Do" or you'll bid yourself out of business. If you have a direction to lean at any given time in any case would be safer....still personally I loathe PPC, and Im not doing as much as I should, but in lieu of the way things are heading in that direction anyway, Id say start hosting shopping carts and start actually selling something (or things would be better)...You can have more peace at that for awhile until "they" decide they can push you out of that as well....Just standby because whatever you decide to do tomorrow will shell out something else you never saw coming....

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador
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    "The numbers don't crunch the same way on both ends."

    Depends on what type of site you have and if you have one that can get bookmarks and return traffic. If you have a site where people will go to you first before they go shopping online. Maybe even have a newsletter they sign up for so who knows how much that click will pay and pay again in the future. I think it's good to get traffic from as many different sources as possible and PPC is fine of course if you make more than you spend with it.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWires
    There's an old saying "The business that does not advertise, does not do business".
    Krispy Kreme has never advertised in the entire time they have been in business. Not a penny.

    Always exceptions...

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    PPC & Return Customers
    I would think that it depends on whether the merchant offers recurring commission on reorders, and whether the merchants internal tracking program attaches the AFID to the original sale to insure credit to the affiliate on re-orders placed by those customers.

    Obviously, depending on the merchant and the products offered, some don't offer ongoing commission and some do. Of course, with ppc costs rising - it is more difficult for an affiliate to recoup customer acquisition costs on one sale - so recurring commissions are a consideration.

    Best Regards
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  15. #15
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webworker
    Ok, so that's from a merchant's point of view, the cost of PPC being the cost of long-term customer acquisition.

    It isn't the same for an affiliate. Pay for the ad spot, send them to the merchant, get a bit of commission and that's the end of it, with the merchant getting the long-term benefit of a repeat customer.

    The numbers don't crunch the same way on both ends.
    Like Alan mentions, it depends on if the program offers residual commissions. When I was Affiliate Manager for Rx Medical a couple years ago, the affiliate owned the customer for life. We'd send out re-order reminders, etc and the affiliate would get full commission on any repeat business. As such, some affiliates spent a fortune on PPC. Anything with residual commissions can make a higher cost of acquisition work over time. Still depends a lot on the merchant's retention rate, but sometimes the numbers work.

    I'm currently working with another program (nothing to do with Rx) that takes things a step further (still in Beta, so mum's the word), but the point is; not every program just pays out on the first purchase within the 5 day cookie window.

    As an affiliate, I like to consider what works for the site/industry/program in question. Usually we do both SEO and PPC, but we've also dabbled in direct mail, branding and other offline efforts. Frankly, putting all your eggs in any one basket is a recipe for disaster...

    nakedgamer, I seem to recall kids standing on the street corner with signs offering free Krispy Kremes when one opened up here. Maybe the franchisee spent the penny, but that's advertising.
    Eathan Mertz

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  16. #16
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Krispy Kreme
    I've never had a Krispy Kreme, but when they first barn stormed Colorado, they did a lot of advertising in local communities where franchises opened.

    Unfortunately, their initial business model includes a much larger storefront than necessary or realistic for a doughnut shop. Demographics became a huge factor also. The overall demographic in CO is not doughnut friendly - so many Krispy Kreme franchises (B&M affiliates) have either folded or are in financial trouble.

    Regardless of the industry, advertising = brand = consumer confidence = increased orders.

    Man, what a wonderful society we live in!! Free enterprise and the freedom to seek our dreams (complete with the headaches we incur) is soooo much better than the alternative!!


    Bset To All
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  17. #17
    SEO: A Specialty - Web Design: Slow or outsourced andbeyond's Avatar
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    Krispy Kreme are too dam sweet. Maybe some market research is in order.

    Oh and PPC is sometimes good, depends on the industry. Click fraud is a problem and is why many people dont like it. I think the idea of paying for their competition to review their site drives them crazy.

  18. #18
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    The main thing I wanted to see in this thread is if you think you can do well at affiliate marketing with no PPC.

  19. #19
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson992
    The main thing I wanted to see in this thread is if you think you can do well at affiliate marketing with no PPC.
    What is your definition of "do well at affiliate marketing?"
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  20. #20
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson992
    The main thing I wanted to see in this thread is if you think you can do well at affiliate marketing with no PPC.
    Unfortunately, that wasn't among the questions you asked...

    Personally, I think it's completely possible to make a good living at affiliate marketing without PPC, but I guess I don't see why success without advertising would be any more worthwhile of a pursuit than success with advertising. Avoiding click fraud, reducing advertising costs, improving conversion rates, etc I can understand, but avoiding one means of marketing for the sake of avoidance, I just don't get.

    Is there context to the thread I may be missing?
    Eathan Mertz

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  21. #21
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    well of course cost is an issue. Also to me PPC isn't based on anything good you do unlike good organic listings. You just throw enough money into it.

    In the oiginal post I asked for those who used PPC and who didn't.

    Rhia the amount varies according to the individual. To me it means seeing sales on a consistent basis.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
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    Also to me PPC isn't based on anything good you do unlike good organic listings. You just throw enough money into it.
    Jack, sometimes good organic listings aren't based on anything "good" either. Smart? sometimes. Aggressive? sometimes. Knowing how? sometimes. Good? only sometimes. Being good at something doesn't necessarily always make it good, and it sure doesn't always make how a site got up there necessarily "good".

    PPC isn't throwing money into it, IMHO. It's the cost of advertising in a certain medium, which is just a different model than organic listings and a very sensible one, especially for people who are experts at it and/or those who like the degree of reliability and control it can give them.

    In the oiginal post I asked for those who used PPC and who didn't.
    Don't and should, because sometimes it makes a lot of sense. Like if there's a merchant who "upsells" and converts for quantity, and there's an item that draws people to send to the merchant's site. If the organic listings aren't good at all the engines and doing PPC is cost-effective, then it makes real good sense to do PPC to get those customers - to advertise.

    To a degree, it's simple bookkeeping, comparing the cost vs. the potential for return on the money spent.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    "Also to me PPC isn't based on anything good you do unlike good organic listings."

    You have to try it to know about it And PPC is based on good you do if you want to make money, some are very skilled at it.

    "The main thing I wanted to see in this thread is if you think you can do well at affiliate marketing with no PPC."

    Of course.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    "The main thing I wanted to see in this thread is if you think you can do well at affiliate marketing with no PPC."

    Jackson, I'm simply curious here, as it seems there's some kind of stigma against PPC marketing. I catch that attitude (look at SimCat's post) with the way some people talk about it. And to tell you the truth, I'm not quite sure why.

    Is there a reason why you (or anyone else for that matter) want to shy away from PPC?
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  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador
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    Is there a reason why you (or anyone else for that matter) want to shy away from PPC?
    Aside from the money business part of it (no pun intended), PPC can't have the same thrill as organic SEO. When the rankings hit, it's like mentally orgasmic.

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