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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Don't try to make Google mind!
    Well, it seems to me, that it has been confirmed, even by Google employees, that they simply want to get rid of affiliate sites both in the searches and in adwords.

    My guess is that, if that is their goal, eventually they are going to do just that. They may not have figured out how to do it, yet, but they will eventually do it. They want to control the market place and want us out. So, it is going to get harder and harder to make Google mind as far as getting your sites seen goes.

    So, now what? Well, when I think back, I used to get 50,000 views a day to my sites. Then, I learned how to do some easy SEO and started to focus on that. When I started, I had lots of traffic because I loved my sites. I told everyone about them. I button holed people on the net and in person saying, "Hey, you need to see this!"

    Enthusiasm for what I created was what got me the visitors in the first place. I was getting great traffic before I even knew what Google was! And, I think, if I just go back to my roots, as it were, that same way of doing business will work for me again. I think it will work for you, too.

    I am tired of trying to make Google mind. F' 'em. I am just going to make my sites with the same love and enthusiasm I started with and if Google wants the benefit of my sites in their listings, I will still let them list them.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Unhappy
    i'm fed up with google as well.

    i worked so hard on building a nice website, and google shows it's attitude to my website.

    it doesn't index any pages , and sometimes it indexes many pages and the next day de-indexes all those pages.

    people ARE looking for deals and shopping products that affiliate sites showcase so nicely, why does google have a problem with it?

    i'm new to affiliate marketing, and google being so mean to me just makes me feel like giving up, i add stuff everyday but not one person comes to my site through google, may be yahoo is following google as well ,but msn has been good

    is it official, where can we see a press release or a post by google that it wants to remove aff sites from its index?

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    The only alternative is to become a scumbag, and do what all the other scammers are doing.

    Not a great alternative, eh?

    Fred

  4. #4
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Why on earth is that the only alternative???

    I had MORE traffic BEFORE Google. Once Google traffic got so easy for me, I got complacent and stopped doing all the things I did to get traffic, before. And, I didn't play the Overture game, either.

    I think a lot of us have just gotten complacent about promoting our sites like a bunch of crack heads, Google gave it to us free, got us hooked and now we pay the price.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  5. #5
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf

    Enthusiasm for what I created was what got me the visitors in the first place. I was getting great traffic before I even knew what Google was! And, I think, if I just go back to my roots, as it were, that same way of doing business will work for me again. I think it will work for you, too.
    I totally agree. Great post!
    Ebudae


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf

    Enthusiasm for what I created was what got me the visitors in the first place. I was getting great traffic before I even knew what Google was! And, I think, if I just go back to my roots, as it were, that same way of doing business will work for me again. I think it will work for you, too.

    Spot on post. I too have thinking about going back to my roots which is writing software as I have a product I wrote about 3-4 years back that I have just let whither oin the vine, so I think I will re-vamp it, get rid of a few unwanted features, and try re-launching a lite version for a fraction of the original price and see where it goes.

    Why be an affiliate when i can sell my own product, well I guess the answer is yet Again Goolge made it too easy to emake more moeny from being an affiliate.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    Well, it seems to me, that it has been confirmed, even by Google employees, that they simply want to get rid of affiliate sites both in the searches and in adwords.
    This just depends on the quality of the affiliate site. I'm know there are some very successful affiliate sites that are still in Google's good graces.

    Enthusiasm for what I created was what got me the visitors in the first place. I was getting great traffic before I even knew what Google was! And, I think, if I just go back to my roots, as it were, that same way of doing business will work for me again. I think it will work for you, too.
    I totally agree. We can't rely on Google for anything and they've made it clear they don't want us relying on them. Generate traffic by word of mouth, newspaper ads, business cards, viral marketing, anyway you can. Then maybe if you make your site good enough and it draws enough attention Google will notice and give you traffic naturally as they should.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  8. #8
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snib
    This just depends on the quality of the affiliate site. I'm know there are some very successful affiliate sites that are still in Google's good graces.

    - Scott
    I don't think quality is going to save you if you depend on Google.

    In one of these threads, I believe that a Google employee even TOLD the webmaster that they are trying to get rid of affiliate sites.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  9. #9
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Once again, SSANF shows and shares her wisdom

    As always, remember to BUILD PAGES FOR YOUR VISITORS and you'll be creating worthwhile sites whether they're content or sales sites.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    I don't think quality is going to save you if you depend on Google.
    I think quality is indirectly implied in the free listings by reputation (incoming links). That's not to stop Google from dropping you from AdWords, but it's something strong enough to keep many affiliate sites in the top 10.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Angry Goofle
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssanf
    if Google wants the benefit of my sites in their listings, I will still let them list them.
    Personally I'd love to show Google nothing but a big fat robots.txt with their name on it!

    Places that discriminate against my sites (and by extension, me) and "penalize" my sites for what they are, deserve to die. To Enronville with that company.

    One good thing is, if we get traffic from somewhere else, there'll be no need to wreck our pitches by doing things like making sure to mention the Keyphrase X amount of times, put something SEOful in the Alt Text, try to original-ize product descriptions, or any other of that useless-for-anything-besides-SEO crap that humans couldn't care less about.

    Most stupid-looking conventions that are on web pages are there to try to get a plainly-obvious idea across to some dumb robot that can't spot SUBJECT X unless it's smacking them with a Font Size 7 Headline and repeated several more times in the text. I can't imagine how anyone thinks the Google Algo is smart, when treating it like a bonafide retard has always been the only way it gets a clue as to which terms are even relevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ssanf
    I think a lot of us have just gotten complacent about promoting our sites like a bunch of crack heads, Google gave it to us free, got us hooked and now we pay the price.
    Yeah, but they screwed up big time along the way, and are being stupider than any drug dealer.

    The dope dealer gives out the free stuff, and then charges for more. Stuuple, on the other hand, is also refusing to sell (at any price anyone will pay, considering people won't rob stores to come up with money for an AdWords Fix)!! DUH DUH DUH @ Google!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snib
    We can't rely on Google for anything and they've made it clear they don't want us relying on them.
    If a site's getting lots of traffic without relying on Google, Google becomes irrelevant. No need for a site to care about them if they're doing well without being in!

    If a place doesn't want me when I'm not uber, I don't have any desire to associate with them once I am. Same as with merchants. When I started, some rejected me, then came begging me to sign up once I got an EPC. Those merchants were, are, and forever will be out of luck. I've the same thoughts about Google.

    It reminds me of a bank saying they'll only give you a loan if you already have a fortune big enough to pay it all back at once. If you have that kind of a fortune, you don't need a loan, so no need to deal with that bank anyway!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snib
    Generate traffic by word of mouth, newspaper ads, business cards, viral marketing, anyway you can. Then maybe if you make your site good enough and it draws enough attention Google will notice and give you traffic naturally as they should.
    I've always hesitated to advertise my aff sites in those non-SE ways you mentioned, knowing that the people will likely bookmark the various merchant sites once they find them. It's strategic, sales-wise, to position an aff site to hit people who don't yet know where to shop, and who are looking for the answer to that "where" question--in other words, to aim for high rank in the SEs.

    But for GoodBulbs, I've got all kinds of non-SE advertising planned and some already in place. For GB, when people remember the merchant site, I'm It, so I'll do all I can (without losing my shirt or wrecking my sales) to drum that URL into the minds of the masses.

    As for Google noticing it, see my statements earlier in this post. I wouldn't be going after other sources of traffic if I intended to be getting it from Google! I can't imagine a reason for letting them spider any site that's getting plenty of traffic without them. There'd be no point in stifling my natural response then, which is to tell them to F off and Die for shunning me now.

    Quote Originally Posted by websmith
    Why be an affiliate when i can sell my own product,
    There's all kinds of good reasons. But, there's also all kinds of good reasons to be a merchant.

    Affiliate side:

    NO customer service!
    No having to deal with bad credit cards, people who say "US" in the "country" field when they see your "we only ship to the US" notice (and then put Puerto Rico in the "state" field), etc.
    No fiddling with obstinate shopping carts.
    If the stock accidentally stays overseas, it's not up to you to try to get them to buy some other thing, or to wait another month while the wholesaler comes up with some.
    You can put SHIPPING'S IN SEPTEMBER on your ad page 10 times without messing up the conversion ratio among those who actually read!

    Merchant Side:
    Tracking is never affected. No trackie, no shippie.
    You KNOW if the CC was good or not.
    You know what the "other" reason is (usually that some idiot thought that "ships fall, 2006" meant shipping in May...)
    No waiting a month or more to get paid!
    You can advertise anywhere, as long as you've got the money.
    If you flash your Sales Tax License, wholesalers will talk to you.
    All Customer Information are belong to you (except the CC numbers, which aren't retained). If your site tanks in the SERPs, mail an ad to 'em.
    It's New and therefore Exciting.
    Last edited by Leader; July 20th, 2006 at 12:41 AM.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador darkstar7's Avatar
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    I finally figure out how to use Adwords properly to get great converting low priced traffic, then this happens. I too used to use offline methods to generated traffic. It looks like I'll have to divert Google's money to other methods. Their loss.

    Having a quality site for the customer to use is always the best thing to do because word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising. It is after all a recommendation coming from a friend. I did what Ssanf did built the site for the customer and they come back over and over again.

    There are other online places for your ads. Yahoo, MSN, banner ads on quality sites, classifieds, local directories and more. Look outside the Google box. It was a great thing but it appears to be over for now. Look outside the box.
    Luke
    Have you promoted your brand name today?

  13. #13
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    I have been telling you guys to Ban the googlebot for years
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  14. #14
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyfalcon
    I have been telling you guys to Ban the googlebot for years
    I knew you'd get a kick out of that!

    Thing is, before, there was a benefit to the bargain. Now, there's not much of one. Even when they do show some listings of mine, for my aff sites, they're aiming the people at ancient pages that don't exist anymore.

    I suspect that if I banned it, they'd keep on showing those dead listings sporadically for months afterwards (based on the fact that they kept showing my GB images for months after I banned all bots from my images folders).

    Funny how they were quite happy to mooch my pix and send me lots of DUD hits huh!

  15. #15
    Member ABCMonkey's Avatar
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    I guess, as a newbies to the affiliate game, that the manipulations required to stay ahead of the search engine technology was most overwhelming. For well over a decade, I've concentrated on building good content for sites and traffic has usually been overwhelmingly good. Coming from that realm, content has always been king, and it seems like Google is trying to address that in some way.

    I'm not defending Google since they are becoming too big for their britches and seem like they want a monopoly on all affiliate marketing, but as a typical user (not an affiliate guy) who searches for content, I get rather bored and pissed off that most of my search results are irrelevant because the results are from cookie cutter affiliate marketing sites that have no interest in me as a consumer except to buy something (not to mention the pop-ups, blind links, etc).

    I'm not bagging on affiliate marketers either. I am interested in affiliate marketing. It works. And it's beneficial. But I cannot deny what the consumer really wants. And being a consumer, well, I just don't want to go to a link site that does not have anything to offer but a link to another site. I want to be entertained, informed, or educated. This from the user's perspective. A consumer.

    However, I don't mind a bunch of links from a site that provides my needs as a consumer. A site I feel compelled to visit often, I will click away. I'm just guessing that plenty of Google customers are complaining about the lack of relevancy in their search results, and they want to curb that. At least I hope they are coming from that perspective.

    Nothing wrong with that. It just means the marketing manager must find ways to create a compelling site to entice visitors to take action on the resulting directed retail site.

    So, being a scum bag as mentioned before is not really the answer. Those scumbags are probably why we will all suffer because Google, and other SE's, aren't going to take the time to interview each marketing affiliate to see if we are one of the good guys. Sadly, search engines aren't perfect, but they should be better than they are. I want good results when I search for something.

    In this business, you adapt and succeed. Takeing the low road might net big bucks due to manipulation or other unethical means, but it does impact others who are sincerely doing a good ethical job of advertising products for retailers. The challenge is building something compelling for the consumer so that they are not only a one time visitor, but one who will come back again and again.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABCMonkey
    I guess, as a newbies to the affiliate game, that the manipulations required to stay ahead of the search engine technology was most overwhelming. For well over a decade, I've concentrated on building good content for sites and traffic has usually been overwhelmingly good. Coming from that realm, content has always been king, and it seems like Google is trying to address that in some way.

    I'm not defending Google since they are becoming too big for their britches and seem like they want a monopoly on all affiliate marketing, but as a typical user (not an affiliate guy) who searches for content, I get rather bored and pissed off that most of my search results are irrelevant because the results are from cookie cutter affiliate marketing sites that have no interest in me as a consumer except to buy something (not to mention the pop-ups, blind links, etc).

    I'm not bagging on affiliate marketers either. I am interested in affiliate marketing. It works. And it's beneficial. But I cannot deny what the consumer really wants. And being a consumer, well, I just don't want to go to a link site that does not have anything to offer but a link to another site. I want to be entertained, informed, or educated. This from the user's perspective. A consumer.

    However, I don't mind a bunch of links from a site that provides my needs as a consumer. A site I feel compelled to visit often, I will click away. I'm just guessing that plenty of Google customers are complaining about the lack of relevancy in their search results, and they want to curb that. At least I hope they are coming from that perspective.

    Nothing wrong with that. It just means the marketing manager must find ways to create a compelling site to entice visitors to take action on the resulting directed retail site.

    So, being a scum bag as mentioned before is not really the answer. Those scumbags are probably why we will all suffer because Google, and other SE's, aren't going to take the time to interview each marketing affiliate to see if we are one of the good guys. Sadly, search engines aren't perfect, but they should be better than they are. I want good results when I search for something.

    In this business, you adapt and succeed. Takeing the low road might net big bucks due to manipulation or other unethical means, but it does impact others who are sincerely doing a good ethical job of advertising products for retailers. The challenge is building something compelling for the consumer so that they are not only a one time visitor, but one who will come back again and again.
    I'm a newbie to affiliate markeing too. I starte about 3 months ago.

    google has been really really tough on my site.

    my site is not a link farm, and its' not a banner farm or any other that tend to annoy people.

    it is a nicely built coupon site that i'm sure many people would like, if they stumbled upon it.

    but google wont even give me a chance!

    I have provided content, some of the content pages that have inbound links to them have been indexed, but content does not convert! people just come, poke around your content, read what they want and leave.

    they dont click on any affiliate links or even AdSense ads.

    Google also penalizes you, if you have duplicate content, its best if the content is created by you and not borrowed from somewhere.

  17. #17
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    "but google wont even give me a chance!"

    You posted elsewhere not having inbound links and only doing this 3 months. This isn't get rich quick, requires work and patience. You need inbound links. Also helps with the other search engines.

  18. #18
    Member ABCMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by best123
    I'm a newbie to affiliate markeing too. I starte about 3 months ago.
    What is the name of your site? I'd like to check it out. I don't know how this community is like, but maybe sharing the site with others for a constructive critique might catch things that are not so obvious to you.

    By the way, I agree. This biz does require time and patience, and a lot of hard work.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    "but google wont even give me a chance!"

    You posted elsewhere not having inbound links and only doing this 3 months. This isn't get rich quick, requires work and patience. You need inbound links. Also helps with the other search engines.
    Ok, i'll wait. I did create some inbound links recently, but they haven't taken effect yet according to alexa.

    also any inbound links wont do, i heard.

    i think inbound links from directories have higher priority because they "categorize" the links

    but I dont know if google scans my site for affiliate domains like sas.com or ls.com and ban me for that, they haven't banned me yet
    but they have indexed only the home page and some rich content pages (that have inbound links) and nothing else.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABCMonkey
    What is the name of your site? I'd like to check it out. I don't know how this community is like, but maybe sharing the site with others for a constructive critique might catch things that are not so obvious to you.

    By the way, I agree. This biz does require time and patience, and a lot of hard work.
    Thanks, I would like my site to be critiqued, but it will create instant competition for me here. Everyone here is an affiliate and putting your site here is a big risk.

    May be I will PM my link to you, say after 6 months or so after you build your site

  21. #21
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    "also any inbound links wont do, i heard."

    You heard wrong. That's how the SE's find sites by following links. If they see you have a lot of them from good places that will help you in the SERPS. Plus since you've only been doing this for 3 months, it's going to take some time. New sites take a little longer than let's say an established site that has new pages. More links + patience. And it helps to have a good sites that people link to naturally because those links are better than riciprocal links. But try to get a good variety of links in.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    "also any inbound links wont do, i heard."

    You heard wrong. That's how the SE's find sites by following links. If they see you have a lot of them from good places that will help you in the SERPS. Plus since you've only been doing this for 3 months, it's going to take some time. New sites take a little longer than let's say an established site that has new pages.
    Ok, thanks for the assurance.

  23. #23
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    Well, my traffic dropped like a stone yesterday.. I've worked very hard to create a unique content-rich site, using affiliate links & images to supplement content (exactly what I thought would make a good affiliate site!). AdWords was used to build up site recognition..

    Part of me wants to cry as I have to figure out a way to replace 500 daily visitors lost (hello MSN AdCenter)

    Part of me feels it will all be ok as organic SERP has been improving.

    But another part of me is glad I won't have to fork over my hard-earned money to typosquatters... and be told by google that it's a valid business practice. As frustrating as this has been, if I can bring back 50% of lost visitors, the quality will be much better than what google has sent. Thats something we shouldn't lose sight of.. the click-fraud problems, typo-squatting, etc... we will be well rid of that....

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    How long has your site been up?

    Mine is up only for about 3 months. google has been very tough on my site.
    Yesterday I put Googlebot Disallow: / in my robots.txt , all other bots are welcome except google

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by best123
    How long has your site been up?

    Mine is up only for about 3 months. google has been very tough on my site.
    Yesterday I put Googlebot Disallow: / in my robots.txt , all other bots are welcome except google
    I think that's a bad idea. You're basically giving yourself no chance of earning free traffic from Google.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

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