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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Unhappy We need to build our own search engine that's better than Big G
    We can't have a search engine owned by a single company that's doing well in the SE world, dictate who they want to block from their index.

    A search engine is like a high way not a private drive way, it should be up to you and me to decide what we want to search and retrieve.

    It's just mean of Big G to ban affiliate sites.

  2. #2
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    Grassroot SEs or Directories don't scale as in dmoz.org

    Then there is the problem of Astroturfing

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    A community edited directory or search engine like dmoz is not good either.

    It tends to be geekish, and the contents of the directory are dictated by the RULES for what goes into the directory.

    I'm refering to a personalized search. Every single website should be labeled and indexed.

    Each individual should be able to opt-out of certain types of websites (with a lable)

    I want to be able to "choose" to opt-out of affiliate sites from appearing in my search engine results, not the search engine dictate that I can't view affiliate sites.

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager nish's Avatar
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    There's a Slashdot article today discussing Search 2.0 vs Traditional Search... in a way similar to what you are referring. "The new search engines profiled are Swicki, Rollyo, Clusty, Wink and Lexxe."

    http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/07/20/1235234.shtml

  5. #5

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    What are Yahoo, MSN Search, Ask Jeeves, hotbot, etc.? Aren't they search engines?

    Google is just a site that made itself popular. People could always go to another search engine to search. There are choices.

    There are also sites that search multiple search engines as well to find what you are looking for...

  6. #6
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    Thumbs down google
    Quote Originally Posted by best123
    We can't have a search engine owned by a single company that's doing well in the SE world, dictate who they want to block from their index.

    A search engine is like a high way not a private drive way, it should be up to you and me to decide what we want to search and retrieve.

    It's just mean of Big G to ban affiliate sites.
    It's worse than mean, I worked very hard, I had top spots in Giggles then I had nothing, no income either, I have 253 sites, between bogus venders that don't pay, shave sales, or pay late and good ol' Giggles I got Bupkis.PL

  7. #7
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    "It's just mean of Big G to ban affiliate sites."

    They did what they did with Adwords but some affiliates sites are still showing, and they're still all over the natural SERPS.

    And the regular people who search don't care what some geeks come up with:
    "The new search engines profiled are Swicki, Rollyo, Clusty, Wink and Lexxe."

    It's Google, Yahoo, MSN and some Ask.com. And that's pretty much it. I just wish Yahoo, MSN and Ask would make some moves.

  8. #8
    Member ABCMonkey's Avatar
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    Well, I remember the first day Google came out. I actually felt sorry for them, but was intrigued by their simplicity. I would have never guessed they became the giant they have. But they did simply because they conducted their business, at the beginning, differently from the others. It was grassroots at first, and they created a following.

    Shame they don't remember their first days. However, I don't know what happens behind closed doors. But I use Google most of the time. I'm hooked.

    This does not mean that another company cannot come up with another way of marketing their brand to the public, and build a great competitor. It will happen. Just that no one has yet gone forward with the key idea that works.

  9. #9
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    What the key idea that works? They're search engines so the key idea is finding what you're looking for after searching for something. And you'll find that people are happy with what the search engines are giving them. If Google doesn't satisfy then they go to Yahoo or MSN. There is no market for a new search engine because there is no demand for a new one. Just like cola. You can come up with a new one but there is no market for it since Coke and Pepsi pretty much satisfies everyone's cola needs and then you have those few that drink the RC. And Google, MSN and Yahoo are big brands like Coke and Pepsi. They have search pretty much locked down. And have for years now. And webmaster forums and affiliate forums aren't where the general public speaks.

  10. #10
    Member ABCMonkey's Avatar
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    The key idea is NOT the searching, but the receptive branding idea that the public will embrace. Sorry, I see that wasn't clear.

    However, Google has only been around for a short period of time, relatively speaking. And they entered the market when everyone thought Yahoo was the only king. Hell, I remember when everyone thought Lycos was it. And before that, well...

    THIS is not the end of the Internet. This is not the final product of such a technology. It's rather old and clunky. No, the greatest ideas have yet to come. Internet usage today will be laughed at next decade. It's too narrow minded to think that the way we search, and the companies that market themselves as search engines, have reached their peak. Search engines will evolve into something else completely different (just like any search tool throughout the ages). It's those that come up with a winning idea to convince consumers that they have the best most efficient way of handling what they are looking for -- that business will take the market. And hell, Google could be the site that does it.

    Honestly, I don't care. I just want good search results. Search engines suck right now. Too many irrelevant results and too much advertising. Someone will come around with a search engine that provides real results without the clutter, and brand it in a way that will make whatever advertising they use something that isn't in the consumer's face. And Google knows this because there are a lot of consumers out there tired of crappy search results.

    I use Google almost exclusively because it's simple and I used them the first day they came out. Just habit, effectiving marketing and solid branding, I guess. But I'm not satisfied. Until another engine comes out that shows me contrasted improved results I have yet to experience on the other search engines, I won't know any better. And another company will do this. And they just MIGHT make money at it.

  11. #11
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    "Someone will come around with a search engine that provides real results without the clutter"

    Thing is, there will always be mega-spammers and in order to combat those, measures will be taken that will also create a lot of collateral damage to standalone sites that are just trying to be what they are.

    For "real results without clutter", a human-edited directory would be the way, but the bigger they get, the more potential there is for editor corruption and the associated abuse.
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  12. #12
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    Google is just a database and a gimmick. I use Google first, but I know they've thrown out lots of websites, mine were in now there's no information on them, so I know there's huge holes in the Google database. I just wish everyone else knew to check MSN and Yahoo too,

    PL

  13. #13
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    "However, Google has only been around for a short period of time, relatively speaking. And they entered the market when everyone thought Yahoo was the only king. Hell, I remember when everyone thought Lycos was it. And before that, well..."

    Actually Altavista, which they helped finish off.

    "Honestly, I don't care. I just want good search results. Search engines suck right now."

    But the majority of people don't think so, there are facts to back that up.

    "I use Google almost exclusively because it's simple and I used them the first day they came out. Just habit, effectiving marketing and solid branding, I guess."

    Yep, another problem. You can give better search results and still not beat them. Branding works. There were better search engines, some labeled Google Killers, didn't do a thing. Teoma was labeled a Google killer and was great. They are now merged with Ask.com

    http://search.ask.com/#subject:ask|pg:1

    Alltheweb was great. Yahoo bought them and screwed that up.

    Your top 4 lineup:
    Google
    Yahoo
    MSN
    Ask.com

    Will be next year, year after.....

  14. #14
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    That's the bottom line isn't it? Getting customers to our sites, If not search engines then what? NOT SPAM, I will not do it, I hate receiving it I won't send it out. I might do some Yahoo advertising though.

    PL

  15. #15
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    "If not search engines then what?"

    There are plenty of advertising venues that existed long before the internet did.

    Yahoo did not get as big as they are by advertising on the internet.
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  16. #16
    Member ABCMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petunialover
    That's the bottom line isn't it? Getting customers to our sites, If not search engines then what? NOT SPAM, I will not do it, I hate receiving it I won't send it out. I might do some Yahoo advertising though.
    PL
    Yes, there's the rub. I think content is everything because content is what I know. And that seems to be the main draw for search engines. The whole affiliate business and terminology is something somewhat still foreign for me, and that's why I'm here. To learn, and hopefully, eventually, contribute.

    SPAM on the other hand is not something I subscribe to either. Although I do believe in opt-in lists providing I am up front with my list of customers and make it easy for them to opt-out. Trust is the key to the opt-in sort of campaign. And it works. Uninvited SPAM is a no no.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoWires
    "If not search engines then what?"

    There are plenty of advertising venues that existed long before the internet did. Yahoo did not get as big as they are by advertising on the internet.
    Yes, very true! Oftentimes, people will become narrow in their thinking especially if something works for them for so long -- and even when it starts to peter out.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Content may be king , but content does not convert.

    People just come for free content, scan your site and leave, they dont care how hard you worked on publishing that content to make them come and read it in the first place.

    They dont click on ads being displayed around the content, not even adsense ads.

  18. #18
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    "but content does not convert."

    Sales content does.

    "It's just mean of Big G to ban affiliate sites."

    Also you posted that you've been doing this only 3 months with no inbound links. First you need patience and then work on getting links in. You can still get great traffic thru the natural SERPS.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    "but content does not convert."

    Sales content does.

    Sales content drives people away !

    If the content has too much promotional material like, this is the best product ever!!!

    then people know, its some kind of a sales pitch and that the content is biased and they leave.

  20. #20
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    Search on the many threads here sales vs. content sites and read. Plenty of people making money with sales content. There are ways that work. People have found ways to make money with all kinds of different sites.

  21. #21
    Member ABCMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by best123
    Content may be king , but content does not convert. People just come for free content, scan your site and leave, they dont care how hard you worked on publishing that content to make them come and read it in the first place.They dont click on ads being displayed around the content, not even adsense ads.
    That's too generalized. Content, good changing content, keeps customers returning to your site. Offering a compelling sales message in support of or in tandem to good content is what will make your customers convert.

    Too often, affiliates who were working to support our efforts would complain that we weren't converting the few bits of traffic they were sending us. I would visit their site and discover there were no sales pitch involved. Just a link. A single link lumped in batch of other links. We had our sales pitch, but the affiliate did not offer anything to their visitor. No prep work or seduction. Just a link.

    As a consumer, I want more than that when I visit a site. Consumers aren't dumb. They understand advertising more and more these days. Never underestimate them. And they certainly won't reward a site simply because they have stumbled upon your page and found a link. Now, this isn't absolute, and I'm sure people are doing just that. There's always a possible scenario. I'm just saying that I will happily click away on someone's site I enjoy and trust (providing the link has something of interest to me) if there is something on that site that shows the webmasters gives a hoot about me, the consumer, and the merchant.

    But that's me. Fortunately, not all affiliates believe in content, or sales content, because somehow they might be getting the traffic. But even those affiliates would probably do better with compelling content. The affiliates who supported our efforts always improved with the simple content suggestions I offered.

    Of course, now I'm on the other side, and all the tricks outside of the content realm is quite fascinating. This is what I must learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by best123
    Sales content drives people away !

    If the content has too much promotional material like, this is the best product ever!!!

    then people know, its some kind of a sales pitch and that the content is biased and they leave.
    The idea is not to come across like a salesperson but as a person offering insight. I worked as a salesperson for so many years. I never got into the pitch. I sold because I got into the person and found out what my customer wanted. When the time was right, I closed the sale. Online, surely, it's different. The interface. The close. The technology. But people make the same mistakes online as they do in life. Just don't come across like a saleperson.

  22. #22
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    "Sales content drives people away !"

    Tell that to Amazon and BizRate.
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  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador best123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWires
    "Sales content drives people away !"

    Tell that to Amazon and BizRate.
    Amazon is a direct retailer, and BizRate is a comparison website that provides service , both of these do well.

    But when people see say a "sales" article about a product, they recongize it when it's a "sales" kind of article and they just leave.

    And people dont want to go through affilliate sites unless it offers coupons etc.

    I see many amazon affiliate sites , I dont click through them, I go directly to amazon if i have to buy what's displayed on the affiliate site.

    I'm sorry if I'm sounding/ thinking lame but, seeing no results for so long is driving me mad, but coming back here and reading all your posetive posts reassures me that this works.

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Learn the lesson preached by the search engine that wiped out all the others. What ever you do write your pages for the audience you are addressing. If the message is sincere, and the merchant and linked products worthy of a bookmark, you've done your job. The tricks for clicks players, e-mail blasters and SERP & Browser spammers are just getting their just deserts.

    My merchant clients rule the SERPs with the same philosophy preached by Google. Therefore they enjoy a conversion ratio that's unreachable by a branded site like Boscovs.com which is written for neither the shopper or the search engines. No content, no sales pitch , meaningless product descriptions not helping with closing the sale. They're just preying upon affiliates hoping to drive brick-n-mortar traffic, catalog and phone sales.

    What SE should list or shopper buy, regardless of affiliate pre-sell spin, from this link http://www.boscovs.com/StoreFrontWeb...9&type=Product PATHETIC and well worth firing those in charge of both sales and content in the ecatlog. So Boscovs smoozes affiliate spammers, couponers, BHO's for years as they need 1000 visitors before a sale gets made from real value-add affiliate links.

    Choose you merchants wisely and demand they convert your targeted traffic if you willing to write sales and product spin content they're too lazy to invest in...
    Last edited by ecomcity; July 20th, 2006 at 11:57 PM.
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  25. #25
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    "Learn the lesson preached by the search engine that wiped out all the others. What ever you do write your pages for the audience your are addressing. If the message is sincere, and the merchant and linked products worthy of a bookmark, you've done your job. The tricks for clicks players, e-mail blasters and SERP & Browser spammers are just getting their just deserts."

    Not sure why you're now kissing Google's Ass when just a couple of months you were complaining about them when they threw you into supplemental:

    http://groups.google.com/group/googl...6555888029c5eb

    "My merchant clients rule the SERPs with the same philosophy preached by Google."

    They don't preach blackhat what some of them are. Is that what you're preaching now? Using the exact same content and spread it onto different domains to dominate the SERPS?

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