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  1. #1
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    Need Auction Advice
    I was hoping one of you with auction experience can help me with an issue i have. Lately I have been buying a good number of rare coins on ebay. well i made 2 bids on 2 different coins listed by the same person who went through efforts to NOT state that they were fakes in his title but had it hid in small print in his description. well i ended up "winning" his garbage. when i found the first one i sent him a message saying i was not going to pay for the item...when i found the second one when i went to pay for it, i got pissed and left negative feedback...im not going to pay for it either....period . no matter what.

    well then this bloke sends me an email saying that if i dont pay up, even in lieu of his obvious deception, ebay will close my account down, ect...he was basically threatening blackmail..."you have to pay me because i came across your sort before and ebay rules my way."..ok, "my sort"...someone who refuses to pay for deceptive listings of fakes? ive bought many other coins and pay quickly and promptly, but in this case...why should i have to pay first and then dispute it? i have no issues with people selling reporductions, but in this case he was trolling to fool someone....and thinks i should go along with it?

    any of you guys ever been in a situation akin to this?

    what position will ebay take most likely?

  2. #2
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsteitz
    I was hoping one of you with auction experience can help me with an issue i have. Lately I have been buying a good number of rare coins on ebay. well i made 2 bids on 2 different coins listed by the same person who went through efforts to NOT state that they were fakes in his title but had it hid in small print in his description. well i ended up "winning" his garbage. when i found the first one i sent him a message saying i was not going to pay for the item...when i found the second one when i went to pay for it, i got pissed and left negative feedback...im not going to pay for it either....period . no matter what.

    well then this bloke sends me an email saying that if i dont pay up, even in lieu of his obvious deception, ebay will close my account down, ect...he was basically threatening blackmail..."you have to pay me because i came across your sort before and ebay rules my way."..ok, "my sort"...someone who refuses to pay for deceptive listings of fakes? ive bought many other coins and pay quickly and promptly, but in this case...why should i have to pay first and then dispute it? i have no issues with people selling reporductions, but in this case he was trolling to fool someone....and thinks i should go along with it?

    any of you guys ever been in a situation akin to this?

    what position will ebay take most likely?
    dsteitz, are you using http://www.paypal.com/uk ?

    Here is a link that might be of help:
    Buyer Complaint Policy
    http://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/web...plaint-outside
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  3. #3
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    thanks Rhia, i use stateside paypal...but in any case paypal's resolution policies are mute because im refusing to pay for bogus coins i "won". in that im not going to be using paypal or any other means of payment for these items....but im having trouble in locating what ebay's position is on this when you discover you have bid on something that was listed deceptive (ie not having "reproduction", "copy", or "fake" in the title) and refuse to pay for it.

  4. #4
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    I was trying to figure out the jurisdiction to see which rules would apply to you.
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  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Don,

    You'll need to "Open an Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described dispute" at:

    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ad-policy.html
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  6. #6
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    Big thanks man! That's what I was looking for.

  7. #7
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    Oooops! Thx Haiko, but again using this form says i must actually pay for it first, then dispute it going this route....least 10 days after the close of a sale...if it's been paid for. There has to be some shorter end to this? My problem is that im refusing to pay, and i dont want it shipped because the listing was deceptive and i dont want the garbage....What happens if i refuse to pay for an item under these circumstances?...or in this case 2 separate items?

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    "if i dont pay up, even in lieu of his obvious deception, ebay will close my account down,"

    I doubt this would happen, especially if you have'nt had nonpayment issues before. However, if he continues to run deceptive auctions, He might get closed down.

    Just curious- does he have good feedback up to now? You said you left him neg. feedback, if he does the same to you, you might have to live with that small irritation.

    Found this on eBay
    'Note: If a buyer gets too many(?) strikes in too short a time period, their account will be suspended indefinitely. In some cases, limits may be placed on the buyer’s account in advance of suspension.'
    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/unpaid-item.html

    JMO, been on ebay 6 yrs., but have'nt had a similar situation...
    Last edited by simcat; July 24th, 2006 at 02:39 AM.

  9. #9
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    I would be way pissed and wouldn't pay either, dsteitz. I don't think eBay would close your account but I don't know that for sure. Definitely contact eBay and let them know why you're refusing to pay. If this guy leaves YOU neg. feedback, you can counter it and explain why you refused to pay so your feedback won't be totally killed.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  10. #10
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    Thanks Guys,

    Ive already sent ebay a note about it, explaining my actions anyway. He already left me with negative comment in response to my not so kind words but its toward me as a buyer, not a seller so Im not really too concerned about it....If any serious coin buyer bothers to read it through they would have no issues for me refusing to pay for that reason anyway. I have nothing against people selling reproduction coins in itself, but to try and disguise it as the real thing and then demand payment even when you still have been had for it is too much. I reported it as a false listing even though it is now a closed auction in the hopes of ebay just removing it. i had to send back a followup because all you can input is the item numbers and no comments via the ebay interface. if i get much harrassment over it, ill figure i'll just give them a call. im a serious and quick payer on every other deal i bought...except for 2 and this same person is the seller for both.

    i was not gonna leave the guy a bad comment in any case, but i got pissed after the 2nd coin and figured this was too much to be "accidental"....he can blast me back naturally, but under the circumstances id say his side looks much worse.

  11. #11
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsteitz
    Oooops! Thx Haiko, but again using this form says i must actually pay for it first, then dispute it going this route....least 10 days after the close of a sale...if it's been paid for. There has to be some shorter end to this? My problem is that im refusing to pay, and i dont want it shipped because the listing was deceptive and i dont want the garbage....What happens if i refuse to pay for an item under these circumstances?...or in this case 2 separate items?
    dsteitz,

    These sites might help. Also check the other links listed:

    How to Avoid Coin Fraud on eBay
    http://rg.ancients.info/guide/fraud.html

    The Federal Trade Commission's Site for E-Commerce & the Internet
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/menu-internet.htm

    The FTC offers PDF files about cases. You might be interested in
    Going, Going, Gone... Law Enforcement Efforts to Combat Internet Auction Fraud
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  12. #12
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsteitz
    Thanks Guys,

    i was not gonna leave the guy a bad comment in any case, but i got pissed after the 2nd coin and figured this was too much to be "accidental"....he can blast me back naturally, but under the circumstances id say his side looks much worse.
    The Feedback function is what makes eBay work so beautifully. And I think you were absolutely right in leaving neg FB on this seller. It's what the FB function is for. Warning other buyers that he's selling fake coins is a good thing. You've done your community duty And yeah ... he's gonna come out looking way worse than you on this one. Hope eBay straightens it out for you.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  13. #13
    notary sojac Herb ΤΏΤ¬'s Avatar
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    Cool
    one of the fun things about the commercial version of PayPal is that some complaints can cause the vendor's account to freeze.

  14. #14
    notary sojac Herb ΤΏΤ¬'s Avatar
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    Lightbulb
    with condition being such a large part of a coin's worth, I'm surprised anyone deals where they can't actually handle the merchandise.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herb ΤΏΤ¬
    with condition being such a large part of a coin's worth, I'm surprised anyone deals where they can't actually handle the merchandise.

    well you get to see a scan, and i collect mostly ancient coins so usually the conditions are not at par with modern coins anyway...plus the whole object is to win the bids well below a coins bottom end worth anyway in a worst case scenario. i have not had any trouble as of yet with any coin being an obvious fake that i have paid for and received (i do have 1 suspect coin just because the condition is too good, but even under a microscope i cant see any indicators of it being a fake so if it is it's a damn good one)...nor have i received a coin yet that was not the one scanned....

    i also buy coins from dealers online and generally find their coins at par or better than what is in the brick and mortar collector shops...but there im paying just slightly "below" the book price...on ebay ive bought coins worth 200$ for 10$...a 150$ one for 5.50...ect. In the long run its not bad at all.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    Thumbs down
    I hadnt checked out ebay coins for a while, so took a look. Whats the deal with all the chinese listings?
    1804 silver dollars for $10?
    solid silver statues for $1.83?

    OK.......sure..

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by simcat
    I hadnt checked out ebay coins for a while, so took a look. Whats the deal with all the chinese listings?
    1804 silver dollars for $10?
    solid silver statues for $1.83?

    OK.......sure..

    if that was the "buy now" price i would not touch them with a 10 ft. pole...but i read their feedback and try and determine if its something they could of had fabricated via an associate of skankers giving positive feedback to one another or like. if it looks good, i'll give it a go. ive bought "roman" (short of carbon dating or a real expert they pass for real to me) rings for like 20 bucks, ect. personally i find it difficult to get good prices for stuff on ebay, but its a worthwhile place to buy. lots of people dig stuff out of the closet or attic and make valueations off the top of their head as to it's value. Old people in particular tend to undervalue items moreso than anyone else due to living the majority of their lives in the periods where you could like buy a coke for 10 cents ect.

    an example...nothing to do with ebay. i knew of a guy who bought a 1930s baseball card dispensing machine that had spent over 60 years in a family store attic. the old woman told the guy he could have it for 30 dollars i think or some ridiculously low amount. he took it home and the machine was stocked full of baseball cards from the 30s...I think the common ones were worth hundreds of dollars and many worth many thousands...theres likely a number of great "steals" out there, you just have to be lucky enough to find it....and then when you find it you have to believe it.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    Yeah every time I start browsing ebay, i end up spending hours...

    Have never found a real steal, but have'nt been ripped off yet either.

  19. #19
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    I used to collect coins when I was a little kid. Even bought a White's metal detector because they had ads with people next to piles of coins and treasure they found I found some stuff with it but traded it for some weights. Eventually I sold them and I don't think I was collecting the good stuff because they actaully went down in value, maybe now they're up. I had mercury dimes, buffalo head nickels, walking liberty half dollars and a bunch of other stuff. That was all I could afford back then, $20 a month allowance didn't go to far, plus I worked some too. I think I have some stamps I want to try to sell on ebay and a whole bunch of sports cards. Lost all my comics to my brother.

  20. #20
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    i collected coins and stamps as a kid as well. mostly stamps. i eventually went to ancient coins because something from the base empire we all came from thats around 2000 years old seems to hold more value to me personally then a USA dime from the 20s for example.

    The only bad side of it is that the prices tend to be stable these days due to the advent of metal detectors (especially now in what was the eastern roman provinces) being sold en masse to formerly economically repressed persons...who in turn are digging up roman stashes. I wish at times I lived somewhere were I could hunt for them. I read about some guy who recently found a stash of 2,000 denarii. Enough in the time of the coins to likely buy 4 slaves..but today worth about $100,000.00 . It would be such a thrill! Still in europe you have to turn stuff like that over to the state in most cases....yeah right! lol

  21. #21
    notary sojac Herb ΤΏΤ¬'s Avatar
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    Exclamation
    I have a problem with the overuse of the word "rare." (I function as an antiques "picker" when I can.)

    I say that if it is on eBay, it is not rare. Except for the occasional slice of toast with a head on it.

  22. #22
    notary sojac Herb ΤΏΤ¬'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsteitz
    i knew of a guy who bought a 1930s baseball card dispensing machine that had spent over 60 years in a family store attic. the old woman told the guy he could have it for 30 dollars i think or some ridiculously low amount. he took it home and the machine was stocked full of baseball cards from the 30s...I think the common ones were worth hundreds of dollars and many worth many thousands...theres likely a number of great "steals" out there, you just have to be lucky enough to find it....and then when you find it you have to believe it.
    and there you still have a problem -- you can't release all those cards into the market at once or the perceived rarity really suffers. --but it sure is nice when it happens!

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