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  1. #1
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    ValueClick Q2 Earnings Conference Call Transcript - LMI Mention
    About LMI:

    "Let me speak to link management, this is in reference to commission junction. What we have started to do is try and get our publishers to move their tags over to their JavaScript, because we believe that over time that it is going to be demanded more and more on the advertiser side. We are not mandating it, however, and it could take a considerable amount of time to do such a migration.
    We got a response loud and clear from our publisher that they are not willing to do this on a wholesale basis, but we believe that over time, maybe it takes a year or two, that this will be the way that the market will go. So we are going to be patient with it. Right now, we are just working with our publisher on a one-to-one basis, and eventually I would anticipate that we will get there over time."

    http://internet.seekingalpha.com/article/14792

  2. #2
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Clueless in California.
    Michael Coley
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  3. #3
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    Is anyone here in the "we are just working with our publisher on a one-to-one basis group? It's about time to make some kind of announcement about this and bring back the ability to generate multiple HTML links. How is anyone who is hevily invested in CJ supposed to make any plans if they will eventually make an announcement that in six months they will discontinue HTML links?

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thumbs down
    Well I never got passed the bad taste and false promises of the LMI project. I took just one merchant Levono/IBM thinkpads who I've showcased since the old Befree IBM days. I noticed all my current static HTML links ceased to land on category and product pages a few weeks ago when trying to buy a X-series Thnkpad for a client.

    Logged into CJ and bit the LMI bullet to try out java script banners and text links for this one merchant. First off I tried the selections of old style HTML offerings for banners -text and product links, which proved to be all outdated. Very clumsy time-wise too. Back to the LMI offerings. Total selections for banners and text links were 100% incentive with 80% of them already EXPIRED. The rest I was forced to place expired on July 31st. Well LMI promised auto updating as their saving grace to keep links current and landing pages relivent... WTF... a total disgraceful spinmaster attempt this one proved to be...

    I checked today and all Thinkpad banners and text links go to some obscure OOS invalid offer landing page. Everyone of them have the 7/31/2006 same text message. Absolutely no specific computer products category links exist at CJ. No search through the individual products link tool turned up one result for even the most general search terms.

    Thanks CJ for absolutely ruining any chance for making any meaningful showcase displays for Levono/Thinpads. The program should be restricted to just couponers -deal sites, incneters and SERP/PPCSE spammers. I'll put a fork in this merchant as having fallen to the darkside forces of the mass eyeball Adwhores, POS cookie cannons and clickstream data-miners. I refuse to drink the VC/CJ coolaid and hope they choke on their advertising mindset one promising merchant at a time.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  5. #5
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    A couple of months ago, I was contacted by a CJ program manager asking for feedback on the JS links. I told her that my forum software does not support JS within the forum postings. She contacted the software company to confirm that and then got back with me to say they told her that they do support JS. Yes, they support JS outside of the actual forum postings but she should confirm with them that they do not support JS within the forum postings. I presume she did because I haven't heard from her again since that time.

    Others have also reported that their forum and blog software do not support JS. I'm sure this is one of the many things that CJ didn't even consider going into this but now realize what a negative impact it would have.

    Based on the ValueClick CEO's acknowledgment that there won't be any mandated changes in the foreseeable future, the default needs to be changed back to HTML. CJ is creating totally unecessary work for their affiliates.

  6. #6
    Full Member TLE's Avatar
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    eBay
    Also frequently discussed was eBay. Big drop in revenue from eBay as of Jan, due to a new contract AND eBay's own PPC expansion. Speaking of this, it was announced at eBay live that eBay went from .75Mil keywords to over 10Mil in the last 12 months.

    Selected quotes:

    Affiliate marketing worldwide represented a 23% increase year over year, excluding eBay, and 16% growth worldwide overall. While the decrease in eBay was larger than we expected, the remaining 1,500 clients in affiliate marketing were growing quite nicely.

    The three primary reasons for the eBay reduction were lower negotiated prices effective in January, different payouts to publishers, which are now being paid for performance post-sign-up, and eBayís decision to buy more of their own keywords themselves versus through our affiliates.

    Affiliate marketing revenue increased 12% to $20.1 million and the second quarter of 2006, compared to $17.8 million in 2005. ... Including international revenues, and excluding the impact of eBayís new contract, worldwide affiliate marketing product revenue grew 23% year over year in Q2 2006.

    ...overall without the effects of eBay, we are really thinking that full-year is in the high-20ís range, if you will, in terms of growth rates. Including eBay, probably something that is in high-teenís, or just south of 20.


    Unrelated to all this, eBay is at a 3+ year low today.

    Tuan

  7. #7
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    Sounds like no matter how we plead, cj still going to dump LMI on us. It's sad...

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador ticketguyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atonca
    Sounds like no matter how we plead, cj still going to dump LMI on us. It's sad...
    Quite to the contrary, it sounds like they are hoping market forces will push affiliates in that direction, and that's as it should be.

  9. #9
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    It's not market forces pushing affiliates in that direction. It's 100% CJ doing the pushing.
    Michael Coley
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  10. #10
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    "but we believe that over time, maybe it takes a year or two, that this will be the way that the market will go."

    um, no. Somebody is really lost if they think js only is where the market is headed.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Well, what this all says to me is CJ is really backing off the idea of full JS links. Why do I say that? Well, first they were going to just mandate it, then they decided to give us six months notice but it would not happen until after Christmas. Now they are say one to two years. If we continue to resist, it will never happen. Keep up the good fight!!!

    However this statement really bothers me:
    We got a response loud and clear from our publisher that they are not willing to do this on a wholesale basis
    Yet, they still refuse to understand. Instead they just keep putting things off thinking we will one day come around. This will, in the end, hurt CJ badly.

    I can't wait to see VC's and CJ's third quarter results.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador ticketguyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    It's not market forces pushing affiliates in that direction. It's 100% CJ doing the pushing.
    But it sounds like they're trying to make that case, so when market forces don't demand JS, they'll have to at least come up with some other excuse to try and force implementation.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    exactly!
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  14. #14
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    If they want to leave it to market forces, they should just make it optional. They can't, though. They know that the market won't accept it. There's absolutely nothing market drive about this, and if they're saying there is they're only fooling themselves. Which brings me back to my original comment: "Clueless in California."
    Michael Coley
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  15. #15
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14150931/

    "ValueClick will need another quarter or two to truly convince me, though. Something in last night's conference call troubled me. In discussing Commission Junction, the company noted that it is trying to get its publishers to switch over from HTML to javascript code to serve up CJ.com's affiliate ads, but meeting some resistance. I'm guessing this is happening because many of the third-party publishers broadcasting CJ ads aren't the same breed of active ad tweakers and page optimizers as AdSense publishers. With Google now offering impression-based graphical ad campaigns, ValueClick is going to be challenged by the dot-com juggernaut."
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
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  16. #16
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    OUCH

    "I'm guessing this is happening because many of the third-party publishers broadcasting CJ ads aren't the same breed of active ad tweakers and page optimizers as AdSense publishers."

    OUCH

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Rodriguez
    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14150931/

    "ValueClick will need another quarter or two to truly convince me, though. Something in last night's conference call troubled me. In discussing Commission Junction, the company noted that it is trying to get its publishers to switch over from HTML to javascript code to serve up CJ.com's affiliate ads, but meeting some resistance. I'm guessing this is happening because many of the third-party publishers broadcasting CJ ads aren't the same breed of active ad tweakers and page optimizers as AdSense publishers. With Google now offering impression-based graphical ad campaigns, ValueClick is going to be challenged by the dot-com juggernaut."
    Seems to me that this guy is overemphasizing the effects of VC's competition from Adsense. This guy prefers Adsense.
    "Active Ad tweakers"?? Would that be MFA Spammers that he wants VC to court?

    It just hit me.....like a ton of bricks.....the article said one of them is a CJ affiliate. Maybe he is the one who liked LMI!!!??


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    Seems to me that this guy is overemphasizing the effects of VC's competition from Adsense. This guy prefers Adsense.
    "Active Ad tweakers"?? Would that be MFA Spammers that he wants VC to court?
    My thoughts exactly! And as to Google's impression-based ads, while they can be lucrative, they account for a very small portion of AdSense ads and they are controlled by Google and the advertiser, not by the publisher.

    For those who are unfamiliar with the term "MFA," it means junkie spam sites that were made solely for the purpose of serving text links through AdSense and their text-based competitors...Made for AdSense.

  19. #19
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    We got a response loud and clear from our publisher that they are not willing to do this on a wholesale basis, but we believe that over time, maybe it takes a year or two, that this will be the way that the market will go. So we are going to be patient with it.
    LOL....interpreted
    Everyone was PI**ED, even the guys we can count on to back us on other things resisted this! (Molander loved it, but that is another post) Some said they would try it, most said no $*&^ way. We think that in a few years they will no longer be running databases so we will try again, but it probably won't work then either, so we are going to wait and see.


  20. #20
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    If CJ was smart and wanted to juice up their Q3/Q4 results, they'd make the HTML links the default again or at least make it possible to create them in bulk.

  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Who'd a thunk CJ would turn it's back on keeping their real value add merchant showcase builders compensated. I figure my CJ commission income, and those for rules playing affiliates, dropped in favor of the Last Click point of sale attack dogs. The CJ folks, who had faith the smallfry affiliate offered combined group values to promote sales, exceeding those of the mass cookie cannons. Now it's all about data mining, contextual/behavorial Ads, SEM, and over SEO'd doorway revolving cookied mouse traps. VC wants what all the Adwhores desire. Automated ways to siphon off Ad budgets from greed blinded merchants trusting their paid Ad/Traffic guru's have theri best interest at heart.

    There is no real compensation plan for those who choose to feature the best product offerings of their chosen CJ merchnats. Their referral traffic runs right into the cookie munchers hawking nothing more then deal sweateners attacking at the point of sale. VC knows what affiliate enity types are capable for taking sole credit on network tracked sales. They control the top 100 commission snipers in every category, and could care less for those thinking they drive real targeted traffic, but only get paid on the 10% that escape the multi-channel house cookie mine fields. Can you imagine the cookie landmines when adding up all the Dell.com Adwhore campaigns. Hell their system came with pre-loaded Adware/Spyware for a slotting fee and cut...

    Get over it as VC now runs CJ. No one at VC/CJ bothered to try and build a showcase page or display for the goodies offered by Levono IBM Thinkpads. Had they really tried to make meaningful customer facing computer bargain links they'd have realized real quick it was impossible. Thus my above post and a e-mail to them complaining.
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  22. #22
    Verbosely Virtuous Mutt spacedog's Avatar
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    Mike, it's LENOVO. That Chinese company that IBM spun off their hardware business to. If you'd mistyped it once I wouldn't have corrected you, but uh. Sorry.



    As for VC's statement in the conf call, it's a good sign that maybe they actually ARE listening, at least a little. But I heartily agree that if they are postponing the change indefinitely, they need to change the JS links to an option and restore HTML as the default. The hoops we have to jump through to get links is just pathetic, especially as the purpose of having HTML no longer being default is now simply VC making a "statement" that they mean business with this LMI crap for the future. The future they just happen to assume is coming.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    Who'd a thunk CJ would turn it's back on keeping their real value add merchant showcase builders compensated.
    Who'd a thunk CJ would turn it's back on those of us who have made it what it is today?

    Well, it is simply because a big company bought them out and wanted them to conform to their business model instead of learning from CJ what was already working. Sad, sad, sad.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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