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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    This is from

    The New Book of the Law

    24. Never accept money for the use of the Power. It is sorcerors and charlatans who accept money for their spells and prayers. If you accept no money, you will be free from the temptation to use the Craft for evil or unworthy causes.

    50. If any Wiccan truly labors, then it is right that they should have their just pay. This is not considered the taking of money for the Art, but good and honest work. Yet if any Wiccan works willingly for the good of the Craft, or for their brothers and sisters without pay, then it is to their greatest honor.

    77. Do not turn aside those who seek the ways of the Wicca for the want of an offering or the lack of a robe. You are the servants of the Gods, and the servants of Their people, and those that seek for the Gods you must aid in their quest.


    A lot of people feel that it is shameful to make money in any way from the craft.

    "Taking of money for the Art" = bad.

    [ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: SSanf ]

  2. #2
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    The problem is that Wicca goes all the way through! Everything a witch does with intent is a spell :/

    Being physical creatures we have to eat, it would take a powerful witch indeed to manifest every meal by magic alone. How much good would it do all the normals if every time they needed a decent spell the local witch was found starved to death?

    What are you supposed to do, cast your abilities aside every time something practical needs doing?

    If I was you I'd stick to the Rede and consider all else commentary.

    If you look at 24, the reason given for not accepting money is 'resisting temptation'. Well.. you've managed to resist the temptation to sign up with the local scumware here, so I guess your ability to resist temptation is doing just fine.

    It might be a good idea for beginners to not charge money - but how likely is it that they'd be worth the cash anyway?

    It all sounds a little bit Puritan to me. As if money is inherently evil. An addiction to anything can be evil but even the bible says 'a labourer is worthy of his hire' - as the second rule there agrees on.

    We live in a commercial society not a hunter-gatherer one. Just don't do any spell for money you wouldn't do for free, I guess.

    And if you're selling tarot cards any time soon, don't keep the link to yourself [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


    I

  3. #3
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Oh, yes, for a lot of people (probably most) Wicca is QUITE a little bit Puritan!

    That is something the general public does not understand. They hear the words "Great Rite" or "nekid" and they just can't get past that. They don't understand Wicca at all.

    We NEED paid clergy!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Everything a witch does with intent is a spell <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Quite so!

    P.S. I PM'd a tarot link for you to look at.

    [ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: SSanf ]

  4. #4
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    Thanks!

    And if they're 'in want of a robe' explain the term 'sky clad'.

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


    I

  5. #5
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yep! LOL!! Gets 'em every time!
    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>50. If any Wiccan truly labors, then it is right that they should have their just pay. This is not considered the taking of money for the Art, but good and honest work. Yet if any Wiccan works willingly for the good of the Craft, or for their brothers and sisters without pay, then it is to their greatest honor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ssanf...perhaps I'm reading half into it, but I believe the items you posted would be to your benefit. Don't take cash when somebody comes to you and says 'I want this guy to fall in love with me...heres 50 bucks to work your stuff' (pardon my ignorance of the services people would offer to pay for : [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] If you are running a site, and put some advertising on it, are you taking money for the art....or would be charging somebody for a particular service taking from the art. I'd think (and I could be way off base with this) that you would be ok as long as you aren't accepting payment for something like a love spell, etc....Perhaps you could enlighten me....

  7. #7
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    Love spells aren't generally allowed anyway. Its interfering with someone else's free will. This is the biggest no-no in creation. Its arguably worse than killing them.

    What a witch might do though is a spell to 'attract love'. As it targets no one in particular, only those who might benefit from it will be drawn. You could even do a spell to attract love from someone fitting the exact description of your target. So long as it is not specifically *for* your target.

    You could also do a spell to make someone more attractive in general, or to bring them peace of mind.

    All these would solve the same fundamental problem without causing anyone's free will to be damaged.

    That business about not being paid...

    This discriminates against those witches who do not have rich parents. Its kinda depressing to see such a bizarre middle class bias in the Old Religion.

    You might even make the argument that a spell which is charged for is more effective - as, like branding, much goes on in the mind of the customer too. It depends.

    But Wicca is a broad tradition. It encompasses many ways of working and many philosophies, rather like Hinduism. The Buddhist notion of Karma (cause and effect) runs right through it too. If a witch causes harm, she or he will be the first to know it generally [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    I mean look at Aleister Crowley. A powerful magician, but not a Happy Bunny.

    By the way. I am not generally a witch. I don't think. Its just that via a process of pragmatism and convergent evolution the results often look the same. Having said that, I have a talent for weather spells [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


    I

  8. #8
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Selling a product that someone might use in the craft, such as a knife, is only selling a knife.

    Selling information about the religion would be making money from the art and denying the information to those who have no offering. I don't know how Pagan writers get around this or if they have just decided to accept the bad Karma.

    Selling a spell kit should be OK if it is not charged. (No, I don't mean credit cards, silly!)

    We all have rich parents. The Goddess is my mother and the God is my father. If I choose not to have rich earthly parents in this incarnation, that was because I need the lessons to be learned here. Very fair.

    I'm a fundie Pagan!! LOL


    FREE Wiccan Love Spell

    Did you hear about the witch who did a love spell asking for a good and loyal companion with deep brown eyes, silky brown hair and who would love her with total devotion? She got a cocker spaniel!

    [ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: SSanf ]

  9. #9
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    Paid Clergy? Say it ain't so Sanf.

    But hey I volunteer to be Pope of The Witches. Send your $100 to me and I will make you a Wiccan by papal decree... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img].

    The problem with Wicca is it's like all new 'spiritual' paths - it's evolving. Right now, Wicca has more flavors than Baskin Robbins and it's all viable because it's eclectic to the max.

    Not much different from early Christianity when there were as many flavors and even more conflicts over which was best for 150 years until Constantine used the political power of the Roman Empire to force a "one true path."

    The "New Book Of The Law?"

    Who gave the authors the right to claim they know the 'true' law?

    Did the Goddess appear to them and write it on gold tablets? Or did she tell them all this while she was doing her nails by a burning bush?

    If the Wiccan Creed (Reade) says 'Do what you will but harm none.' There can't be any "law" except that because any codification by definition violates the creed.

    Duh? You can read all about in my forthcoming book - The Religion Of Wicca: An Anthropological View.

    Do out in January 2003.

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Cool! I hereby give you permission to send me a free autographed copy.

    Actually, "New Book Of The Law" is a very good piece of work and most folks seem to feel it is important.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Who gave the authors the right to claim they know the 'true' law? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Do they need permission?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Did the Goddess appear to them and write it on gold tablets? Or did she tell them all this while she was doing her nails by a burning bush?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Now, you know that isn't our way. You must be thinking of some other religions way of doing business.

    Maybe, you like The Book Of The Law better.

  11. #11
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    >Did you hear about the witch who did a love spell asking for a good and loyal companion with deep brown eyes, silky brown hair and who would love her with total devotion? She got a cocker spaniel!

    Should have specified 'and won't crap on the carpet'.


    I

  12. #12
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    Sanf,

    I will send you an autographed copy as soon as I get copies from the publisher.

    What happened to the Old Book Of the Law?

    No permission was not needed...anyone can make up almost anything in Wicca - and they do.

    In fact most of it was all made up by Gerald Gardiner.

    The big problem with Wicca is most of the one's who write about it do not know how to use a thesarus, nor take the time to check facts or think about exactly what it is they are writing about.

    If the READE is to be the principle tenet of a Wiccan's sociological instruction, you can't have "do this" provisions that violates this tenet and be true to the READE.

    One of the major distinguishing features of being Wiccan is that it is a personal belief system focused on the relationship between nature and the individual. - you do not have to be a part of a group to be a Wiccan.

    Those who choose to be a part of a Coven are simply exercising the choice to participate as a group. Everything else is approximately the same.

    A better title than the New Book of The Law would have been:

    The Goddess Path: A Guide for Wiccans.

    And by the way - casting spells for anyone other than yourelf - is illegal in every state. It's a form of divination and is included in 'fortunetelling' prohibitions.

  13. #13
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the READE is to be the principle tenet of a Wiccan's sociological instruction, you can't have "do this" provisions that violates this tenet and be true to the READE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    REDE (sp)

    Of course you can. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Do you understand what "Do as thou wilt" means?

    It means, do the thing you choose this incarnation to do. Follow the true will of your spirit. Learn your lessons. Accomplish your purpose.

    Does that mean follow no code of justice or ethics? Does it mean the laws of the land don't apply to you? In very rare circumstances would a person not be able to accomplish their true will because they were hampered by laws and guidelines of the land they were incarnated in. Nor, would they generally be hampered by the wisdom of The New Book Of The Law.

    Should that occur, the advice would be the same as it would be when a person of conscience is confronted by any unjust law. Follow the will of your spirit and do what you came here to do.

    Gerald Gardiner did not "make up" most of Wicca. He wrote down and organized things he learned from people who were practicing an old religion from an oral tradition. But, we could throw shit balls over that one all day long.

    [ 04-06-2002: Message edited by: SSanf ]

  14. #14
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    To quote Fred (shocked me to hear it coming from him though<IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon12.gif> nothing personal, Fred)
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the Wiccan Creed (Reade) says 'Do what you will but harm none.' There can't be any "law" except that because any codification by definition violates the creed.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Yes, it is the only law, from which all other laws and codes of ethics (should) emanate.
    Also know as the "Golden Rule"
    It's just stated slightly differently by different cultures and religious groups.
    "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
    Shame on me for not being able to remember a few quotes from Aleister Crowley and Gautama the Buddha off the top of my head.
    "If you haven't hurt anybody, you haven't sinned"

    and SSanf-
    I finally got to check out your site and really like it. I'm not a Pagan myself but was once a slightly more than casual student of Magick so it's right up my alley.
    If it's not making enough money, it's not because you're doing anything wrong; you just need to do a little more of what's right.
    And furthermore you are now on my personal hero list because it is a very rare person who can not only tolerate, but encourage a bit of irreverent humor about the subjects that they take most seriously. This is a sign of a very intelligent and compassionate person. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    [ 04-15-2002: Message edited by: deelz ]

  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I Just saw this post.

    Thank you for the kudos. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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