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  1. #1
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    This is ludicrous. Todd has not responded to any of my emails, The CJ team's response is like talking to 10 year olds.

    We have been with CJ for years. Same content. One day they decide to make a very serious accusaition against us and end our relationship. They then refuse to pay on monies owed, not a giant amount but beer money for a year.

    So I go back and forth a few times with them, trying to explain the very real difference in exposing something and promoting something. The simpletons at CJ are unable to understand. So they accuse me again (this is not fraud related, but they are accusing me of something that is illegal in the USA, yet our site actually does less of it than google and makes a very different judgement on it). Of course their whole accusation is based on something that is not even legally true as what they accuse us of and promoting is not even true of what is being discussed.

    (think if someone said you stole gas because you promoted a site that gave away free gas. If you were a simpleton you would say no one paid for the gas, it is theft. but the law would not see it that way.)

    Sorry for being vague but I hope CJ can pull their head out of their behinds and at least wander up to an adult to discuss the matter. Direct contact has not worked, so I will use a public forum.

    On top of all of this the site in question was not the only site. It was merely one site in a network, yet the whole network was yanked because of the seriousness of the accusations (their words). Funny thing, I have found ebay ads next to the exact same content we had - but just painted in a much prettier way, which in my eyes makes it 10x worse.

    I have had it. Search through my posts, I have always sided with CJ. I didn't believe the horror stories. They work with many, many affiliates so I never expected quick turn around or being super responsive to each affiliate. I understood, but as weeks drag on, the accusations becoming more serious and their claims becoming more ludicrous - this after speaking with them on the phone. Todd being abesent. I have had it.

    The anger and frustration I feel is overwhelming. If there was just one person with a brain I could speak to at CJ I would hold out hope, but they seriously do not understand context or (other stuff which I will not mention as I do not want this post to being locked or banned).

    ARGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHHGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

    Chet

  2. #2
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    What are they accusing you of? What do you have on your site that bothers them so much?

    Can you say?

    - Ed

  3. #3
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    Was it warez or something similar...some things can be considered legal in other countries, but illegal in the states...and in many cases, CJ would be correct to pull a site like that...not saying this is the same as your case, but what exactly did they accuse you of doing that would be considered illegal?

    TH Media-Web Solutions For The Small Business
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  4. #4
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    "Sorry for being vague but I hope CJ can pull their head out of their behinds and at least wander up to an adult to discuss the matter." The irony is thick.

    Read this post:
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=1206028011
    There is a right way and a wrong way to express yourself. Using words like racism and slavery in your post is the wrong way(read a few posts back and you will find those examples).

    So what URL's were banned? I am curious.

  5. #5
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    >>There is a right way and a wrong way to express yourself.<<

    And much of that is determined by what your goals are...

    >>So what URL's were banned?

    And asking for a URL is the WRONG way to express yourself here... unless your goals are to 1) have your motives for being here called into question, 2) your moral character much maligned, and 3) to get a multitude of posts on acceptable behavior here and the reasoning behind URL privacy.

    Of course, if those ARE your goals, than what you've said is a perfectly acceptable way to express yourself.

    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes." -- Holly, from Red Dwarf

  6. #6
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    Chet,

    I believe CJ may have other motives to remove your network. The reason you mentioned sounds like a bogus one and CJ has not really been so swift acting on such situations. Is what you said the entire story?

    - BluesX

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    mac,

    Hi and welcome to ABW!

    quote:
    So what URL's were banned?


    I specifically removed the home page link from the posts because of pranaving. If a user decides to reveal their url they can, but I will protect them as much as possible!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Chet,

    If you want feel free to PM me ... I'll see what I can do.

    I know that at least one advertiser on CJ has a major PORN site so I find the sword only has one edge [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    BTW - yes the G word triggered the mod que, but as you saw I approved it immediately.

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager AffiliateBuddha's Avatar
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    CJ will never do such a thing,

    You must really have done something serious that led to your ban.

    WECOME TO THE END,
    SATAN.

  10. #10
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    I can't believe the post HAS to be so vague. I haven't a clue as to what Chet is saying.

    Haiko, this is a prime example of near censorship.
    I'm not trying to be negative, or against your decisions, but this bites to not be able to write something for fear it won't be logged.

  11. #11
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    I'm more interested in what "the G word" is... It sounds as though CJ banned you for linking to a site that contains questionable material. I'm pretty sure at some point (if not currently) there was a clause in the T.O.S. that said we can't do that but check to be sure. If you've been with CJ for so long then I doubt they would notice it if something else wasn't going on (ie. fraudulent appearing activities). If you can't get this resolved by talking with them then either use another network (if you're really that mad) or create a new account for your other sites and stop using CJ to advertise on the shady site.

  12. #12
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I may be getting sidetracked here, but on the firearms issue, one of CJ's merchants (Online Sports) sells handgun scopes, and some other merchants have a publication called "Street Stoppers : The Latest Handgun Stopping Power Street Results:", so CJ isn't exactly a firearm free zone.

    But.. where *are* the T&Cs for CJ? I scoured the cj.com site for them and I can't see them anywhere.

    Dynamoo.com - CreepyGuy - Poozleanimus

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Very few things set off CJ account cancellation bells and whistles Chet. They them selves skirt the issues of parasites and scumlords and sure offer some shady frontend merchants who are just seeking e-mail addresses for opt-out campaigners.

    Those that cause them to cancel accounts relate to: known or reported spammers -Porn content or porn linked sites (porn popups)-Warerz sites selling hijacked S/W -reported sites that perform hidden driveby installs of Adwarez/Spyware, dialers or viruses. These are the obvious ones ..have you invented a new category??

    WebMaster Mike

  14. #14
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    With CJ the only time the TOS doesn't apply is when you come waving a hefty deposit and $250.00 a month. What yesterday was porn is now considered alternative. Companies that sell herbal alternatives in blatant violation of Trademarks and Copyrights are also quite all right. If you got the money honey, CJ's got the time.

    Mike

    Don't Worry Mama, It Won't Get Freaky!

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    To get behind Chet, it would be nice to know a little more. I do not need to see his URL's, but a little better description of what happened would be great.

    Fred

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Cyclone:
    I can't believe the post HAS to be so vague. I haven't a clue as to what Chet is saying.

    Haiko, this is a prime example of near censorship.
    I'm not trying to be negative, or against your decisions, but this bites to not be able to write something for fear it won't be logged.


    Cyclone,

    what in the world are you talking about I didn't censor anything! I have a handfull of words that would trigger a moderation que, it is so that the idiots don't go post happy like they did before. Every post that has gone into mod que, has been approved and not touched. Notwitstanding, Chet's post has nothing to do with the word filter ... so what exactly is the problem?

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  17. #17
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    quote:


    (think if someone said you stole gas because you promoted a site that gave away free gas. If you were a simpleton you would say no one paid for the gas, it is theft. but the law would not see it that way.)

    Chet


    Would this be something like a pyramid scheme? Or one of the more modern derivations of a pyramide scheme?

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  18. #18
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    Since something has started, not by CJ I will say a little more. I can also say this as I can defend what I say below, where cj used such information to inaccuaralty describe us to our business partners.

    We run a site that links to odd sites. Yahoo for the weird or something like that. We have over 12,000 active listings. the site is http://www.portalofevil.com

    Most sites are just funny, weird or strange. Some are nutso kind of people and they tend to think being listed by us is not promotion, but a negative event. Sites are listed for various reasons, most being not so much a positive spin but a - look at this! We ask all our readers to not contact the sites we list, but if something bothers them so much to do what they must.

    Again, we host no content ourselves, just links, descriptions of the links and forums to discuss the links.

    Like I said, we list many sites, none of them being how to grow flowers or knit your dad a sweater. We have been doing this for 3 years and have been with CJ for almost 2 years. The site doesn't convert well except for some amazon special banners we run and our own in-house stuff.

    But the content mix has always been the same. Always.

    We are #1 or #2 for the word evil in google. Marketleap says we have 28,561 links, and that is down from a high of over 100,000. We moved a few months back and not everything is back up and running, so traffic has been down a little. We are fairly large, ~500,000 visitors a month. So we get noticed when we cover things. We linked to some of those sites where parents were taking pictures of their kids and making pay sites, wired picked it up (we are linked to, quoted by and referenced by wired every so often). Once they picked it up the national media picked it up and then the sites started getting closed down.

    Our feeling has always been one of exposure is the worst thing for true evil. We jokingly call ourselves evil, but it is in jest.

    Our forums users express outrage over such sites and after a dialogue with them and with some anti-child porn sites, it was decided if there was an actual illegal act, i.e. sex - we don't ever list the site, we notify the authorities. While CJ (I will show a response) can be flip about how we handle these sites, I am not. CJ can call various police departments we have worked with, I also offered to them to contact various sites we discussed the matter with. We also discussed it with our lawyers. I am not a kid, we do not make any choices on our site that are this serious lightly.

    It seems someone has been trying to paint our site in a bad light. The funny/unfunny thing, but by checking various logs, it seems the supporters of these sites (yes, they come to our forums and try to defend such sites...) are the ones trying to damage our site. We aren't friendly to them, they get reported to their ISPs, they get shutdown etc. So we are the enemy. I have recently caught them trying to stuff our search for certain words since the last 10 searches appear on our home page. All to damage our sites ability to attract advertisers.

    We were told our site was pulled for this listing http://www.portalofevil.com/single.php?poeurlid=17920

    Which is in google as teen art pictures. You can see a google result with a cj advertiser here.
    http://portalofevil.com/cj/earthlink2.gif

    The text on top the ebay ad is almost funny in an ironic kind of way. (this has been changed since I sent the link to cj).

    So google shows this site in a positive light, we in a negative light. Again listed, because a)technically it is not illegal. b) because exposure not hiding this sites is what hurts them.

    This is the email from cj. Now this is after I agreed, okay you decided no more of your ads because you don't like us. fine. but we have a network of sites, which were showing cj ads. This site was not showing 1 single cj ad at the time. So i assumed they would pay based on the other sites having generated the income.

    I sat quietly. I waited. I called, they understood, they even offered to me that I should open a second cj account without this site listed in it and that my other sites were fine.

    So i waited.

    I mailed todd.

    I waited.

    Finally i mailed about the check. I mailed explaining the network idea and again explaining why we do link to such sites.

    This is the response I received:

    Chet,
    I find your claim ludicrous that you "work with anti-child porn sites", yet you promote sites that contain nude and semi-nude children. These offensive sites are a direct violation of our Terms Of Service.


    Now ignoring that CJ has merchants that have artwork that display nude and semi-nude children and this man is claiming that is what his site is for, the idea that we are promoting these sites is ludicrous. And for CJ to be telling our partners we were doing such? I won't use the term, because it is a legal term and I don't want to cross that line. But it is insane. That would be like saying putting up a wanted poster is akin to promoting the criminals.

    Now again. I can understand CJ no longer likes our site. I am fine with that. We make most of our money promoting our own hosting or domain selling or people buying ads. Really only our skyscraper ad doesn't do well. So I have no problem with that. But to accuse me of promoting such sites is ludicrous. I now have 25 signed statements from webmasters (who are not really our friends) who claim that being listed on POE is not promotion but an attack. But this idiot from CJ thinks it is promoting?? It is like talking to a child who can only understand the most basic of ideas.

    If you go to the forum for that site, you will see outrage. You will see people saying they are going to contact the authorities. Does that sound like promotion?

    I am sorry CJ cannot understand such a simple idea of exposure. I guess when an investigative reporter exposes that employees don't wash their hands at the fast food place, he is promoting others not to wash their hands?

    My demands are simple, and I asked this of CJ and suggested to the idiot who responded to me to have the lawyers okay the response because his response was moronic and well... helpful. I want the money owed. End of story.

    But if CJ persists. So will I. And if CJ wants to paint me with an ugly brush?? Well, I can say what I say here because I can counter their claims. But in CJ's actions and response, I had no counter to the claims they told my partners. That makes their claims... well... I know the rules of this forum.

    Chet

  19. #19
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    wow.. that was long. Um just to clarify, we have 12,000 links- here is a more typical link and one of my favorites.

    http://www.portalofevil.com/single.php?poeurlid=13690

  20. #20
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    It is a real shame we cannot discuss the legal aspects of this one openly. The fact we cannot only plays into the hands of CJ who has hired some miniumum wage retard to deal with this. So I'll try. You'll have to guess the missing bits.

    In the UK local authorities had a similar problem when they were advised that any mention of homosexuality was equivalent to 'promoting' it. You can imagine the young lives that one cost over the years.

    It wasn't, of course. But the problem with a law like that is it can mean any damn thing you want it too, and who can afford to **** it?

    Rather than *****, in my country it is easier to **** an ****** for **********. If you could do something similar you might get someone with a brain dealing with it from the start.

    You might well think CJ's actions put them right in the firing line - think along the lines of 'CJ on the side of kiddie traffikers'. Because that is in effect, though probably not in intention, what they are. Might well be worth a mention here and there. 'CJ refuses to *** because I run an anti pedophile site' - that kind of thing. There are all kinds of unfortunate spins can be put on this one.

    Then **** a little something with your local ********** *****. (Think along the lines of the thing you do to people who do not *have* ********** *********** rather than the thing you do to people who will not ***.


    I

  21. #21
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    I wonder if it would help if you asked an anti-porn site or a police department you work with to contact CJ on your behalf?

    Of course, then you still have the problem of wondering who exactly at CJ to talk to.

    - Ed

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    What some people will do just to get eyeball traffic. Your ebiz plan is to make a site that gets attention like the supermarket checkout line rags. Well you got the attention and traffic (Not all traffic is good) and pay the price of having to take a shower 4 times a day to get the filth off of your good intentions. I'm like most merchants who don't want their shoppers wading thru sensationalism crap to land at their e-catalog pages. You might as well succome to the temptation of going the porn eyeball route all the way if it's money you seek and forget the CJ back commissions you claim on weak principles.

    WebMaster Mike

  23. #23
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    I wish I could say who I think is really behind this Chet. I will simply say this: think about who it is you've been openly active against in recent months - that CJ has been complicit with. I think you'll have your answer as to who started the campaign.

    {

    Stuff that makes me go, "huh?"

  24. #24
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    Chet,

    I love your site.

    Fom now on, after I've done my daily ritual of visiting FC to laugh at all the dotComBombers, I'll visit your site to find some Internet Nutters to laugh at as well. My day is turning into a comedy routine.

    And yes, the best way to crack down on illegal sites is to EXPOSE them. Well done.

    ****

    http://zarahemla.dhs.org/

    "to assist us in reclaiming our future homeland"

    Nutters. ABSOLUTE NUTTERS.

    Ha ha ha.

  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    quote:

    1 Relationship. In the context of Your Program, You are referred to herein as an Advertiser. You agree not to:

    (a) mislead others;
    (b) operate or utilize a Web site or e-mail Link to Web sites that contains or promotes, any of these types of content: libelous, defamatory, obscene, abusive, violent, bigoted, hate-oriented, cracking, hacking or warez, or the offer any illegal good or service, or Link to a Web site(s) that does so;
    (c) engage in spamming, indiscriminate advertising or unsolicited commercial e-mail; and/or
    (d) engage in any illegal activity of any type, including but not limited to displaying illegal content on Your Web Site or offering any illegal good or service through Your Web Site.

    If You engage in any of the foregoing, You shall be subject to termination and/or deactivation as set forth in Section 6.2 and referral by CJ to the appropriate law enforcement agencies. CJ may not review all content on Your Web site. You shall remain solely responsible for Your Web site content. CJ is, under no circumstances, responsible for the practices of any Publisher or Advertiser or such Publisher or Advertiser’s Web site(s), and/or the content of Publishers’ subscription e-mails and/or the content that an Advertiser makes available through the Network Service.



    So I guess Advertisers can have prono sites (I know of one, at least, that does) but a publisher is booted because of some malarkey? This is NOT right at all!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


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