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  1. #1
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    Content match - A bad thing?
    I have been reading in a lot of other places that Yahoo's "content match" represents a waste of time and money. And from looking at my own numbers, I have to agreee. From content match I have 90,000+ impressions. Thats almost 100,000 people "viewing" my ads - in theory.

    How many clicks you ask? You might expect something....oh...approaching 1%. That wouldn't be so much to ask for would it? A measly 1,000 clicks? Well its 64. Thats .001%. Less actually.

    Am I doing something wrong here? Can someone give me a suggestion about how to optimize this? My regular program gives me 3% click-throughs and I am satisfied with that at least...I have read people telling me just to turn off content match entirely.

  2. #2
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Getting clicks is not the issue, it's getting something from those clicks. Take a hard look at your conversion rate for the Y Content clicks and see how it's going. There's too much fraud and bs in there for me (my roi there rots), so I suggest avoiding it. But don't believe everything you hear from others - Yahoo is a good enough brand to test to see for yourself. I predict you'll have a very, very hard time getting a positive roi there - so watch the budget to limit your losses. And the way their synidcation works, you're ads will be delivered in some nasty places, via some nasty apps and alongside some nasty things that would make mom blush, so proceed with caution.

  3. #3
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    watch your ROI and the answer will become obvious in no time

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Yahoo
    We do very well with G content - in fact get a great roi from it. But Yahoo has been at best marginally profitable. I agree with Donuts - watch your budget & bids with Yahoo as it performs far less effectively than G.

    Best Regards
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  5. #5
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    my ROI ranking almost always goes....

    positive roi, highest at the top
    G Search
    MSN Search
    Y Search
    G content

    generally, Y content, ends up (below the above list) as neg roi or too near to break even - my capital is best allocated elsewhere

    when msn adds their content network to the fray, i expect it'll be much like Y content, but we'll see...

    and everything beyond the above - miva (findwhat), kanoodle, etc - is much worse than Y content and the syndication is so full of adware and crapolaware that I no longer use it under any circumstances except when a ppc client of mine has it exisiting when I take over their account... then i do an roi study / analysis for them of it... then they kill it off and we reallocate monies to real engines and focus on roi instead of let's be everywhere without regard to effectiveness.

  6. #6
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    /Agrees with Donuts on his ranking.

    Google content is crappy for me as well. (Although you didn't say it was crappy, just your worst)
    Kevin Webster
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    Kayak Fishing
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  7. #7
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    Here is an example of Y! content match

    Suicide ruled
    Father-in-law of cyclist Landis found shot to death
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?cnn=yes

    I know the ads may differ for different IPs, Browsers or GeoTraget BUT
    "what is this?"
    Advertiser links are provided by Yahoo! Search Marketing through its Content Match product. Content Match pairs its listings with related content on SI.com article pages and section fronts. The listings are determined by the relevancy of keywords, which advertisers bid on, to the content of the specific SI.com page. For additional information on becoming an Yahoo! Search Marketing advertiser and to learn more about how business listings are distributed on SI.com and other top Web sites, please visit Yahoo! Search Marketing.

    The ads are:
    Save on All Your Calls with Vonage
    Bad Credit Refinance
    Mortgage Rates Near 39-yr Lows
    Refinance with Bad Credit

  8. #8
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    "Content Match pairs its listings with related content on SI.com article pages and section fronts. The listings are determined by the relevancy of keywords, which advertisers bid on, to the content of the specific SI.com page."

    Adam, you're right - this examples shows why G is kicking Y's tail... they are missing the relevancy boat altogether. They say the magic words, but it's all talk. Traffic this mistargeted doesn't do anybody any favors.

  9. #9
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    SI by the way, is also getting the short end of the stick here. When they pick partners, they are also disregarding the importance of relevancy and click through rate to the value they represent as a web property. I bet they sat down with G and Y and Y offered a larger percentage of every click - a bad way to choose your contextual ad provider!

  10. #10
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Getting clicks is not the issue, it's getting something from those clicks. Take a hard look at your conversion rate for the Y Content clicks and see how it's going. There's too much fraud and bs in there for me (my roi there rots), so I suggest avoiding it. But don't believe everything you hear from others - Yahoo is a good enough brand to test to see for yourself. I predict you'll have a very, very hard time getting a positive roi there - so watch the budget to limit your losses. And the way their synidcation works, you're ads will be delivered in some nasty places, via some nasty apps and alongside some nasty things that would make mom blush, so proceed with caution.
    So I took a long hard look at my ROI and conversion rate with Yahoo Content Match - Are you ready? Zero! Not a single conversion! Not a single conversion EVER since we began doing it. I suppose that answers that question...

    I imagine that Yahoo has two choices: Take a very large amount of money from large companies who want to place irrelevant ads everywhere and lose the integrity of their content match system - or they can actually do the correct thing and deliver the correct content to the right places! I think we can all guess which one they chose!

    I think I want to investigate MSN...

    Also, I am actually very happy with my Yahoo conversion rates strangely. My ROI is well within acceptability. The other day I got 15 conversions for only 1.44 each!

    I wanted to also ask you guys about advanced match type - I have also heard a lot of people telling me to keep it turned off. Any ideas about why this might be?

  11. #11
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    I have been reading in a lot of other places that Yahoo's "content match" represents ...
    What exactly is Yahoo's "content match?"
    Where would I look to educate myself further on that matter?

    I know what Yahoo is
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  12. #12
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    You could search GOO to find

    http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/cm.php

  13. #13
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    All of the big search engines have "ad-serving programs" - lots of websites will sign up with Yahoo or Google (AdSense is the name of Google's program) to try to make money by getting served with either Yahoo or Google's ads.

    A website will join Google AdSense, for example, and put some banners / code into their website - then Google will decide which ads should run in that empty slot. In theory they are picky and give the right people the right types of ads based on what they are looking for...Yahoo's version of AdSense is "Content Match."

    On the merchant's side of things, we have the ability to put our ads over Yahoo or Google's content network when we sign up to AdWords or Overture (Yahoo's search engine marketing). With Google we can even upload our banners to be displayed on a large number of people's websites.

  14. #14
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Ward
    Adam, thanks for the link.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  15. #15
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    Yahoo's version of AdSense is "Content Match."

    On the merchant's side of things, we have the ability to put our ads over Yahoo or Google's content network when we sign up to AdWords or Overture (Yahoo's search engine marketing). With Google we can even upload our banners to be displayed on a large number of people's websites.
    Now I understand ... thank you for the clarification.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    So I took a long hard look at my ROI and conversion rate with Yahoo Content Match - Are you ready? Zero! Not a single conversion! Not a single conversion EVER since we began doing it. I suppose that answers that question...
    Yep, that definitely answers the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    I imagine that Yahoo has two choices: Take a very large amount of money from large companies who want to place irrelevant ads everywhere and lose the integrity of their content match system - or they can actually do the correct thing and deliver the correct content to the right places! I think we can all guess which one they chose!
    They are relying on the big boys that do a lot of traditional branding and other marketing activities that are not necessarily well focused on ROI.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    I think I want to investigate MSN...
    You should. You'll find about 10-15% the volume of G Search but with conversion rates that are in the same ball park at G search. In many cases, it converts a little better, but the volume is somewhat lower than search engine marketshare alone would indicate. It's vastly better than Y content, for sure. And I say MSN is better than Y search - but I have honed my skills in adcopy and many other facets of ppc - and MSN's ppc engine rewards performance (CTR and landing page relevancy affect CPC). Y is a straight auction pricing system, no discounts for doing it well or having a high CTR. So if you know what you're doing, MSN clicks should be significantly cheaper than those at Y. Y has announced project Panama to overhaul their ppc engine, but it was recently delayed again... once it comes, they are supposed to have performance built into their auction pricing, like G and MSN, but their track record is so abysmal, I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    I wanted to also ask you guys about advanced match type - I have also heard a lot of people telling me to keep it turned off. Any ideas about why this might be?
    If you understand how specificity improves ROI, you've got your answer. Letting the Y engine determine other matches thay they think might get a click is shotgun aiming, branding thinking.... stinking thinking.... you need to learn to enjoy the taste of a tall, cold glass of ROI. ROI demands specificity. Advanced match undoes specificity - it yanks the laser site off your campaign rifle and fire pellets towards anything it can see. Leave it off.

  17. #17

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    I have been in the Yahoo program for some time now and it has YET to have even close to the accuracy of Google's content match. Some of the ads that show up in Yahoo ads for my sites are sometimes downright laughable.

    However, I get a higher earned per click than google, but not as many clicks (due to the terrible content matching of yahoo I suspect).

    Though I have a theory about it. I feel that Yahoo doesn't have as many advertisers in as many areas as Google does. Yahoo has to serve up something (I have never seen a PSA ad for yahoo) to your site so it pulls from what it has out there. Since Overture/Yahoo is so difficult to use and so darn picky on their ads I believe there is a lot less advertisers for them than Google. Thus less accurate content matching with ads since you gotta have the ads to begin with in the first place.

    I could be wrong, but I get that feeling.

  18. #18
    Full Member KODea's Avatar
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    Question to anybody:

    I have my Content Match turned off with Yahoo. However, when I look at my website stats(log) I see many clicks from Typosquatting website's. When I goto those Typosquatting website's I see many Yahoo(overture) links. The source codes don't have overture or yahoo names but Y is the only PPC source that I'm using now. Yahoo claims that all my clicks are from search results and not publishers pages. My question is what would you do? my ROI is still strong? should I just not push it?

  19. #19
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Yahoo includes those partners in their "search" network, there's not currently a way to avoid them and still run ads at yahoo.com. You can complain to your Yahoo rep, but I can tell you that's a waste of time. When their revised ppc engine comes out later this year (or early next, project "panama"), look for a little more control over this issue. For now, other than making sure you bids stay low enough so that your aggregate roi remains positive enough to be worthwhile, there's nothing much else you can do.

  20. #20
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    investigating typosquatting traffic coming from Yahoo
    KODea, Donuts, and others: I'm sensitive to your concerns about typosquatting partners and other unwanted traffic within Yahoo's network.

    You may find it helpful or interesting to review Yahosyndicationfraud.com -- litigation that I and my co-counsel are pursuing, on behalf of Yahoo advertisers, as to these Yahoo practices. That site includes our complaint, where you can read our specific allegations.

    The site also incldues a form by which you can contact us to tell us about the problems you have experienced. We'll do our best to investigate, and if we find violations of Yahoo's contract, we'll pursue these appropriately.

    I know many of you are also thinking about Google's practices, not just Yahoo's. Anyone with complaints about Google typosquatting or similar practices may email me. I'll investigate and get back to you promptly.

  21. #21
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedelman
    KODea, Donuts, and others: I'm sensitive to your concerns about typosquatting partners and other unwanted traffic within Yahoo's network.

    You may find it helpful or interesting to review Yahosyndicationfraud.com -- litigation that I and my co-counsel are pursuing, on behalf of Yahoo advertisers, as to these Yahoo practices. That site includes our complaint, where you can read our specific allegations.

    The site also incldues a form by which you can contact us to tell us about the problems you have experienced. We'll do our best to investigate, and if we find violations of Yahoo's contract, we'll pursue these appropriately.

    I know many of you are also thinking about Google's practices, not just Yahoo's. Anyone with complaints about Google typosquatting or similar practices may email me. I'll investigate and get back to you promptly.
    I am glad to see someone policing Yahoo, even if Ben's money will be spent through eBates. Yahoo has been doing these things for a long time. That is why I have never spent a nickel of my own money with them.


  22. #22
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    I am glad to see someone policing Yahoo, even if Ben's money will be spent through eBates. Yahoo has been doing these things for a long time. That is why I have never spent a nickel of my own money with them.

    Kudos on your decision. I can honestly say that I never spent a nickel on them either
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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