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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Day Late, Dollar Short
    CJ merchants just are not getting a clue about the impact of CJ's LMI and JavaScript issues. Some time ago I told one of my top merchants about the problems. Never heard anything, so last week I started moving all of my links to an independent who is showing much promise (and $$$). This week I get an offer at CJ for a performance incentive from that merchant, but even that is not close to the new independent.

    CJ merchants need to realize the affiliates are leaving them and that offering affiliates little morsels to entice us to stay is not enough. Merchants need to stand up to CJ and demand that HTML links (legacy) are the default and JS is an option. CJ has scared away some of its bets affiliates and by the time merchants realize this come Christmas shopping time, it will be too late. Frankly, it probably is too late as it will take some time for CJ to repair its image.

    And its not just that affiliates are leaving on their own, merchants and affiliate managers from other networks are jumping on this, contacting affiliates directly and offering wonderful incentives to change networks and merchants (I know!).

    WAKE UP CJ MERCHANTS!!! Before it is too late. CJ was once a wonderful, powerful network and can again be one day, but we need your help to sway CJ and ValueClick to reverse what they have done.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7-days
    CJ merchants just are not getting a clue about the impact of CJ's LMI and JavaScript issues. Some time ago I told one of my top merchants about the problems. Never heard anything, so last week I started moving all of my links to an independent who is showing much promise (and $$$). This week I get an offer at CJ for a performance incentive from that merchant, but even that is not close to the new independent.

    CJ merchants need to realize the affiliates are leaving them and that offering affiliates little morsels to entice us to stay is not enough. Merchants need to stand up to CJ and demand that HTML links (legacy) are the default and JS is an option. CJ has scared away some of its bets affiliates and by the time merchants realize this come Christmas shopping time, it will be too late. Frankly, it probably is too late as it will take some time for CJ to repair its image.
    What exactly are the problems you're experiencing with LMI? I've had no issue clicking the "use legacy links" button and taking a few extra seconds to get a link. I've also not run across a case where the legacy links don't work.

    I'm both an affiliate (through my own websites & search marketing), and work for an online marketing company that manages a number of affiliate programs in CJ. From what I've seen, none of our top affiliates have ever complained about LMI, as they all still choose to use the legacy links. As for receiving a performance incentive from your merchant, that's not necessarily in response to the fact that you left - Many merchants just push out broad performance incentives to all publishers during promotions. I always personally contact top affiliates who have shown a decrease in their leads and see why that happens - Nobody has ever told me that LMI was the cause of that.

    I believe merchants can request that HTML links can actually be shown by default, at least on a case-by-case basis with specific links (Half & eBay do this), so let your merchants know about that if you really want change. If merchants don't hear feedback, they can't do anything.

  3. #3
    Full Member TLE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    I believe merchants can request that HTML links can actually be shown by default, at least on a case-by-case basis with specific links (Half & eBay do this), so let your merchants know about that if you really want change. If merchants don't hear feedback, they can't do anything.
    Not a good example Joshua.

    eBay, very early on, decided not to participate in this ridiculousness so to default or not to default is irrelevant in regards to eBay.

    Simply put, if other merchants had the same technical resources as eBay (to help the business folks in evaluating this issue), then LMI would itself be a legacy thing by now.

    Tuan

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    What exactly are the problems you're experiencing with LMI? I've had no issue clicking the "use legacy links" button and taking a few extra seconds to get a link. I've also not run across a case where the legacy links don't work.
    Well, for starters, if you're changing more than one link, you'll be spending more than a couple of seconds grabbing them. To go into the link interface, and then also have to request the "legacy" link each and everytime is not an efficient use of time.

    Legacy links have always worked, it's the new JS links that stink (which is what I'm assuming you're talking about). Try loading a few of those on a single page, and watch your load time go to hell..

  5. #5
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    Joshua - none of our top affiliates have ever complained about LMI
    I'm not spending my time to try to convince CJ merchants anymore. Either they understand it or not. I'm not paid to educate them. My business is slowly moving away from CJ to Indies. You'll see the damaging effect in a few months around Christmas time. Enough is enough.

  6. #6
    Yup, Sure ... now let me check ... Cagles Mill's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Joshua
    From what I've seen, none of our top affiliates have ever complained about LMI, as they all still choose to use the legacy links.
    That pretty much says it all, doesn't it?! It also supports 7-Days' argument. It would appear that none of your top affiliates like the LMI links, since none of them are switching to the LMI links. So... why can't CJ simply go back to making the Legacy links the default links so people don't have to do the extra song-and-dance to get the old style links?
    Rick M.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    What exactly are the problems you're experiencing with LMI?
    Do a "LMI" search, you will understand better why this "no LMI" discussions are going on and on in different forums. You will see all the problems affiliates are experiencing with LMI.

    You(merchant) or CJ should ask "WHAT EXACTLY ARE THE PROBLEMS YOU ARE EXPERIENCING WITH LEGACY LINKS" before dumping the LMI nightmare to affiliates.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    I'm not spending my time to try to convince CJ merchants anymore. Either they understand it or not. I'm not paid to educate them. My business is slowly moving away from CJ to Indies. You'll see the damaging effect in a few months around Christmas time. Enough is enough.
    Zeus brings up a point that I have been keenly watching for.

    Between the LMI fiasco and the Google Landing page Quality update, CJ may take a substantial hit in the bottom line this holiday season.

    It'll be interesting to see it unfold.

    Brent

  9. #9
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    CJ is too risky to bet on them for the long term. We saw the poor management they have since ValueClick kicked out the old guard. They are nuts. With or without LMI, CJ is too much of a risk. They don't care for their affiliates. That's their choice. I don't need them. I left most of my links, as long as they are making money... but I've not added one link, not one, LMI ot not. Affiliate marketing is a long term business, it takes months and years to be successful. I'm investing in new relationships. Same for their merchants, like Ron, I've never seen so many of them offering me private deals, increased commissions and asking me why my links were not updated. There's no come back. Let's see if eBates and uPromise will bring them the same level of sales.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Joshua,

    Problems with LMI and JS are well documented here, we do not need to repeat them. What the problem is, is that CJ wants us to replace all of our links (will take me weeks of solid work for my 100 domains). Also, why would I want to put legacy links in when they are going to make me take them all down?

    In addition, the merchant did not create the incentive because I left, I'm still very much with them. I just moved some of my top domains to another merchant and my "Day Late, Dollar Short" comment was that that offer came just days after I happened to do so.

    The real purpose of this post is to get merchants better educated and more involved in the fight to get CJ to reverse their LMI JS campaign. CJ can keep JS, that's not the big complaint here, we just want legacy links to be the default and JS the option, with no date in the future when we have to remove all the legacy links. Simple really, but too obscure for CJ and VC (or else there is a hidden agenda here).

    Thanks all for your comments above. Very good points.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  11. #11
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    "From what I've seen, none of our top affiliates have ever complained about LMI, as they all still choose to use the legacy links."

    That says it all. Top affiliates aren't going to use js. Ever. I've posted before checking out some big affiliates, some of my competition and they weren't using them, I didn't think they would.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    I can almost assure you that CJ will NOT remove legacy links. One of the owners of the company I work for is a CJ performer, and one of his sites is one that takes a lot of affiliate links in legacy form. He was told by a CJ rep at Affiliate Summit that the legacy links would not actually go away. CJ knows that it would completely KILL THEIR BUSINESS if they removed legacy links.

    On another note, there are much quicker ways to change links than going through the legacy link interface. As you know, all links are formatted like http://www.randomletters.com/click-PID-LinkID . You can get the link ID before even clicking "Get HTML", and put it into the standard link. On all of my sites, I use the same random letter domain for all my links, for ease of changing and creating links. All of the top affiliates I've corresponded with in my programs have no issue adapting to the change, and neither have I (and I've been a member of CJ since 1999).

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Joshua and any folks that may have missed it, LMI is dead: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=77457
    Akiva Bergstrom | akiva@affsolutions.com | 718-871-8286

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  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    CJ knows that it would completely KILL THEIR BUSINESS if they removed legacy links.

    I disagree. Several months ago when CJ anounced LMI and the JS links, it was all about removing all the legacy links. Not sure where you got missinformed along the way, but that is the facts.

    Usually, when a poster comes in here brand new and on day one starts to stand up for a network we get suspicious that they actually work for the network. I'm not saying that is the case, but you are one of a very few people on this board of thousands of members who is suddenly showing up today trying to stand up for CJ. Something does not add up. Sorry, but that is just the way it is.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    I disagree. Several months ago when CJ anounced LMI and the JS links, it was all about removing all the legacy links. Not sure where you got missinformed along the way, but that is the facts.

    Usually, when a poster comes in here brand new and on day one starts to stand up for a network we get suspicious that they actually work for the network. I'm not saying that is the case, but you are one of a very few people on this board of thousands of members who is suddenly showing up today trying to stand up for CJ. Something does not add up. Sorry, but that is just the way it is.
    Of course CJ knew that LMI would kill them after a few months - Why did they just kill LMI officially? I'm not misinformed, I just actually talk to people AT CJ instead of making unfounded guesses. I'm not making guesses myself, or else I wouldn't have said that CJ was most likely killing LMI, hours before they actually announced it. I was actually posting here to reassure affiliates (from the perspective of a merchant) that contrary to common belief, CJ wasn't going to kill you by implementing JS only links.

    I can assure you that I do not work for CJ, nor do I like (or know) everything about CJ. There are many faults, both on the merchant end (reporting info, referrer info, investigations of publishers without informing merchants, and much more) and on the affiliate end (not letting affiliates know when merchants have paused approvals, lack of communication at CJ managed programs, interface issues, and more). However, I did not believe that LMI was one of those faults after being reassured numerous times from other super affiliates and people inside of CJ itself that legacy links would be here to stay. I'm also in NJ, and to my knowledge, CJ doesn't have an office here (and a moderator can check my IP for that).

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    Of course CJ knew that LMI would kill them after a few months - Why did they just kill LMI officially?
    So you are saying that CJ knew that LMI would ruin them when the implemented it? That just does not make sense. Why would a company do that sort of thing?
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  17. #17
    Member blizzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    I did not believe that LMI was one of those faults after being reassured numerous times from people inside of CJ that legacy links would be here to stay.
    Are you saying that at the time CJ was publicly & categorically insisting html links were being phased out, CJ was privately telling you the opposite?

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Ever since Affiliate Summit, the "off the record" word was that they were not going to pull the HTML links, and that CJ employees themselves thought that pulling the HTML links would be a major mistake for CJ.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7-days
    So you are saying that CJ knew that LMI would ruin them when the implemented it? That just does not make sense. Why would a company do that sort of thing?
    I'm saying that after the point that CJ announced the full rollout plan for LMI (i.e. removing HTML links over the summer), there was a lot of pressure on those with decision making authority (from affiliates, employees, and select large merchants) to not go through with it. At first they just delayed it, but the pressure continued to build.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Okay, now I think we understand. The way you previously posted this information made it sound like CJ knew it would fail the day they implemented it. If I understand you correctly, you are saying the realization came later and was presented "off the record" at a much later time, at the affiliate summit.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
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  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Isn't this how we got word of it to begin with?? Someone from the summit said something, someone said that something here, and here we are...

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador ticketguyz's Avatar
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    Yes, Joshua has said nothing new.

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